If Dragonball Z came back on TV would Bruce Faulconer Music come back?

[8000 Saiyan]

So where the Japanese Voice actors inexperienced?

Most of them had experience in voice acting even before they did Dragon Ball. Furuya, Suzuoki and Furukawa were in the original Gundam series. I can't think of any in the cast that was inexperienced.

Maybe I misunderstood your previous comment. What exactly do you meant when you replied to my comment about the Latin American dub an Javanese version being similar. In terms of VA experience?

What I meant was that the Japanese voice actors that worked on the show had lots of experience, that's all. Don't know much about Latin American voice actors.

[Bajosexto]

Most of them had experience in voice acting even before they did Dragon Ball. Furuya, Suzuoki and Furukawa were in the original Gundam series. I can't think of any in the cast that was inexperienced.

Maybe I misunderstood your previous comment. What exactly do you meant when you replied to my comment about the Latin American dub an Javanese version being similar. In terms of VA experience?

What I meant was that the Japanese voice actors that worked on the show had lots of experience, that's all. Don't know much about Latin American voice actors.

That's also what I meant. The Latin American voice actors also had lots of experience. That's why I said that maybe it was a similar situation interms of VA experience.

[Bansho64]

This scene (Final Flash) in particular has way more emotion, intensity, and is just done overall better to me compared to Kai's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwrzYrpCHz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpenO97UXXg

Just ugh.

And even in the examples you give, I'm not hearing this greater emotion.

Agreed. A lot of Z dub fans tout the Final Flash scene as this untouchable and awesome scene, but I'm really not of that opinion. Especially with this scene. I admit, I do like using "The Dragon Theme" sometimes when working out. It's an aight theme IMO. However, it's use in this scene is not something I'm a fan of. It's blaring and there's almost no subtly. No build up. The SSJ Vegeta theme is OK too when he fires the attack, but I would've preferred silence.

As for the actors, Vegeta's "screams" sound like he's takin a dump. Trunks and Krillin have some energy but they sound more like someone stole their lunch rather than someone launching an extremely harmful attack that could kill everyone they know and love.

Kai fixes pretty much everything IMO. The fierceness of Vegeta's voice is turned up to 15 instead of a 4.5 and Krillin and Trunks actually sound scared and freaked out. Yamamoto's awesome score makes ya really feel the build up of the attack like it was made specifically for the scene. I can actually hear Vegeta shout "FINAL FLASH!!!" and Sabat shouts the attack exactly with the perfect intensity that it requires.

It's really no contest if you ask me.

[90sDBZ]

I wouldn't say the whole dub is "cheap", but it really gave me that feelin a lot whenever it did those really important scenes. For example, the ending of that one episode in the Buu arc where Goku and Main Vegeta's power up for their rematch. The dub really blasts this loud and, IMO, unfitting music and it really takes a lot away from the scene. It's a big and failed approach of "LOOK! THEY'RE FIGHTING! WATCH EM POWER UP! Isn't this sooooo cool!". And it ain't really workin for me.

However, The original goes for a more silent and suspenseful approach. I can really feel like something big and bad is about to go down, but it aint overdone. The scene has foreboding and almost fearful music to go with it, but it doesn't overshadow the dialogue between Goku and Vegeta. I can really hear the fierceness in how they speak. And, even though it's nothin all that rare, Oozaru sound effect only intensifies the scene.

But that's just one example you've cherry picked. I could just as easily point to scenes that were made to feel more emotional and significant in the dub. Like Gohan's dream sequence for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjqToS3ZgQ

Here we get an appropriately sad and emotional piece from Team Faulconer that really works well with Gohan's emotions and builds up as it plays along. I couldn't find the Japanese clip, but if memory serves it just plays a generic instrumental of Head Cha La as if to say "Hey look kids! Goku's back! Happy time!".

Another example is Goku's SS3 transformation scene. Team Faulconer created an incredible theme that takes its time to build up suspense and makes the scene so much more memorable and empowering. The Japanese version just recycles one of Lord Slug's themes from Movie 4.

[Boo Machine]

This scene (Final Flash) in particular has way more emotion, intensity, and is just done overall better to me compared to Kai's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwrzYrpCHz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpenO97UXXg

Just ugh.

Being louder doesn't mean more emotion. The first clips version is just obnoxious. I'm not sure what to call it, but the music is way to computery? Electric? Just doesn't sound right and it's just blaring. Doesn't help with all the yelling.

The Kai version is just less grating on the ears. It actually sounds like music and it sells the scene pretty darn well if you ask me.

I hate to throw the "It's just nostalgia" argument around, and I apologize that I'm pretty much doing that now, but, aside from the people who grew up with it, I have never seen anyone who picks the faulconer music over anything else. I've said the same thing about Kai Freeza and Gohan dub voices. I have never seen anyone who watched the Japanese version or English Kai version first only to watch the Original Funi dub and say something like "Wow, this version is so much better." I have seen it the other way around many times before though.

Another example is Goku's SS3 transformation scene. Team Faulconer created an incredible theme that takes its time to build up suspense and makes the scene so much more memorable and empowering. The Japanese version just recycles one of Lord Slug's themes from Movie 4.

I really do like the SS3 theme. Not necessarily for the scene, I just think it's kind of cool.

[90sDBZ]

Another scene I just thought of that's much more emotional in the dub is this one where Goku reappears after Gohan tries holding off Frieza alone. The use of the Spirit Bomb theme here is beautiful.

I could only find it in this video so go to 3:25:55:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaaPgwfkPgo

[Bansho64]

But that's just one example you've cherry picked. I could just as easily point to scenes that were made to feel more emotional and significant in the dub. Like Gohan's dream sequence for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjqToS3ZgQ

Here we get an appropriately sad and emotional piece from Team Faulconer that really works well with Gohan's emotions and builds up as it plays along. I couldn't find the Japanese clip, but if memory serves it just plays a generic instrumental of Head Cha La as if to say "Hey look kids! Goku's back! Happy time!".

Another example is Goku's SS3 transformation scene. Team Faulconer created an incredible theme that takes its time to build up suspense and makes the scene so much more memorable and empowering. The Japanese version just recycles one of Lord Slug's themes from Movie 4.

I didn't cherry pick. I just randomly chose it. I could've picked a million others.

I'll still take the original over that. I thought the NEP theme they used for that was good and I don't see how it was "generic". I admit, I thought Faulconer's was good in that instance, but he still ain't got a thing on the feelz I get when I hear the NEP rendition Cha LA Head Cha La

As for the SS3 scene, this is another common one I disagree with. I don't like how it blasts the SS3 theme and I find it much more fitting with the Gotenks version of it. The original feels much more foreboding and suspenseful. Matter of fact, that's actually the same theme from the Final Flash scene. And I think it works in the same way perfectly here. Even recycled, it's a fantastic theme that works great for me and makes the scene just that much more as an experience. I actually find myself humming that one a LOT more than the SS3 one.

[ABED]

There are a few tracks of Faulconer that I like, but I don't think go with DB. The SS3 theme is one of them. It's catchy but not as good as the original moment.

[Kokonoe]

Just gonna say I completely disagree that Kai's is better, I feel it's inferior in every way imaginable (Final Flash that is). The "taking a dump" thing feels more akin to the Kai variant with the way he's grunting with stiff short bursts with that deeper tone.

The emotion and power of the original is soooooo much better, in my opinion.

Being louder doesn't mean more emotion. The first clips version is just obnoxious. I'm not sure what to call it, but the music is way to computery? Electric? Just doesn't sound right and it's just blaring. Doesn't help with all the yelling.

The Kai version is just less grating on the ears. It actually sounds like music and it sells the scene pretty darn well if you ask me.

It's not that it's "louder", it's that everything, including the voice is just executed much better by comparison. Kai's feels dull and it lacks the desperation and confidence the original had with Vegeta doing that attack. The music is the cherry on top for me.

I hate to throw the "It's just nostalgia" argument around, and I apologize that I'm pretty much doing that now, but, aside from the people who grew up with it, I have never seen anyone who picks the faulconer music over anything else. I've said the same thing about Kai Freeza and Gohan dub voices. I have never seen anyone who watched the Japanese version or English Kai version first only to watch the Original Funi dub and say something like "Wow, this version is so much better." I have seen it the other way around many times before though.

Well, I'm here in the flesh (okay, pixels) to prove there are people that do. I've watched the original in Japanese from start to finish a few times, watched Kai's in japanese once, Funi's dub more times then I can count, Kai's dub 2 times, and Ocean's twice. Also for me, it wasn't until I started posting on forums that I saw all this hate or criticism for the dub, but the people I grew up with or met online via voice chat generally preferred the dub and really disliked Goku's voice in the Japanese variant.

There is no nostalgia here, there are people out there that actually like this more.

[ABED]

Do you really prefer those season 3 voices to the original Japanese voices?

And of course there are a lot of casual fans that don't like the Japanese voice. Their view of who Goku is clashes with the voice. I was taken aback by Nozawa at first, but it grew on me. It was an acquired taste that didn't take long to acquire, much like my love of Led Zeppelin and Metallica.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

*snip*

Okay, let's get more grounded with this for a second, just for my sake. Take music out of the equation, what specifically did the dub voices do better? You use words like emotion and power, but I don't feel that from the dub at all, so I need something on a more micro level to get your perspective.

For the record, I also found Kai version of that particular scene totally hammed up, mediocre. Combined with that utterly misplaced Yamamoto track, it's only a step or two above the Z dub.

[ABED]

What did you find hammy?

[8000 Saiyan]

Just gonna say I completely disagree that Kai's is better, I feel it's inferior in every way imaginable (Final Flash that is). The "taking a dump" thing feels more akin to the Kai variant with the way he's grunting with stiff short bursts with that deeper tone.

The emotion and power of the original is soooooo much better, in my opinion.

Being louder doesn't mean more emotion. The first clips version is just obnoxious. I'm not sure what to call it, but the music is way to computery? Electric? Just doesn't sound right and it's just blaring. Doesn't help with all the yelling.

The Kai version is just less grating on the ears. It actually sounds like music and it sells the scene pretty darn well if you ask me.

It's not that it's "louder", it's that everything, including the voice is just executed much better by comparison. Kai's feels dull and it lacks the desperation and confidence the original had with Vegeta doing that attack. The music is the cherry on top for me.

I hate to throw the "It's just nostalgia" argument around, and I apologize that I'm pretty much doing that now, but, aside from the people who grew up with it, I have never seen anyone who picks the faulconer music over anything else. I've said the same thing about Kai Freeza and Gohan dub voices. I have never seen anyone who watched the Japanese version or English Kai version first only to watch the Original Funi dub and say something like "Wow, this version is so much better." I have seen it the other way around many times before though.

Well, I'm here in the flesh (okay, pixels) to prove there are people that do. I've watched the original in Japanese from start to finish a few times, watched Kai's in japanese once, Funi's dub more times then I can count, Kai's dub 2 times, and Ocean's twice. Also for me, it wasn't until I started posting on forums that I saw all this hate or criticism for the dub, but the people I grew up with or met online via voice chat generally preferred the dub and really disliked Goku's voice in the Japanese variant.

There is no nostalgia here, there are people out there that actually like this more.

Just because people like the Funi version more, it doesn't mean that it's good.

[ABED]

Agreed. It's very possible to like something regardless of its actual quality. I like Power Rangers and Gossip Girl.

[Kokonoe]

Do you really prefer those season 3 voices to the original Japanese voices?

And of course there are a lot of casual fans that don't like the Japanese voice. Their view of who Goku is clashes with the voice. I was taken aback by Nozawa at first, but it grew on me. It was an acquired taste that didn't take long to acquire, much like my love of Led Zeppelin and Metallica.

I really do. I find that the voices just mesh with the characters better. The best voice in the Japanese variant to me is Piccolo. However, I'm not saying the dub is without criticism or anything, it's just my preference. Like I can criticize how the farmer sounds at the start of the series (as in he sounds like a Southern Texas farmer), but at the same time I wouldn't know how you would create a country sounding Japanese person in a dub. It is something that came to mind, however.

*snip*

Okay, let's get more grounded with this for a second, just for my sake. Take music out of the equation, what specifically did the dub voices do better? You use words like emotion and power, but I don't feel that from the dub at all, so I need something on a more micro level to get your perspective.

For the record, I also found Kai version of that particular scene totally hammed up, mediocre. Combined with that utterly misplaced Yamamoto track, it's only a step or two above the Z dub.

If we're referring to the Final Flash scene, when I use "emotion" and "power" I'm referring to how the sound of Vegeta sounds like someone who is giving it their all to unleash this massive attack with all of their might. I feel the struggle in the tone, but also the length of the yelling, and I can also feel the pain or struggling of so much energy into one attack. This combined with me loving Vegeta's voice itself and the entire build up throughout the scene sends chills down my spine when all of that build up and tension leads to the attack.

I'm not sure how else I can put it, but that's the best way I can convey of why I enjoy that scene so much from the dub.

Just because people like the Funi version more, it doesn't mean that it's good.

This is a fallacy. What one defines "good" in terms of some Japanese anime people watch is entirely subjective.

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good. It's fucking awful. Actors with no experience whatsoever, just doing impressions of actors with actual experience.

[Kokonoe]

I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good. It's fucking awful. Actors with no experience whatsoever, just doing impressions of actors with actual experience.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

[ABED]

This is a fallacy. What one defines "good" in terms of some Japanese anime people watch is entirely subjective.

Not entirely. You can certainly objectively judge individual elements with objective criteria. For instance, plot holes are bad writing. That doesn't necessarily make the entire story bad, but the more there are and the bigger the holes are, the worse the story is. When dialog is full of random jokes and either doesn't convey character or outright contradicts character, it's bad dialog. Goku's American dialog often clashes with his actions. Goku lets people go in order to have a good fight, but why is he giving people lectures about morality? Vegeta's dub speech about how Freeza made him who he is is not in character.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

It's possible to enjoy something that's terrible. Can you honestly say Sabat's strained impression of Drummond was good acting?

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't see how someone could consider the Season 3 dub of DBZ good. It's fucking awful. Actors with no experience whatsoever, just doing impressions of actors with actual experience.

"It's fucking awful" to you. You don't speak for everyone. Enjoy what you wanna enjoy and I'll enjoy what I wanna enjoy.

It's fucking awful to a lot of people, you know. Funi's Season 3 dub is considered to be universally bad. Thank God Funi stepped up their game with Kai. Now I don't have to endure painful line deliveries from Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat anymore.

[ABED]

I don't like the separate score for DBZ in part because it feeds into the idea that DBZ is separate from DB.