Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

If Gohan was said to be on the same level as Tagoma and Tagoma was shown to be far stronger than Piccolo then Gohan should be far stronger than Piccolo too.

Gohan being above Piccolo but Goku being below Frieza is a problem.

Either Piccolo was nerfed to being weaker than Frieza or Base Goku was never weaker than Frieza at all.

[ZombieVito]

If Gohan was said to be on the same level as Tagoma and Tagoma was shown to be far stronger than Piccolo then Gohan should be far stronger than Piccolo too.

Gohan being above Piccolo but Goku being below Frieza is a problem.

Either Piccolo was nerfed to being weaker than Frieza or Base Goku was never weaker than Frieza at all.

Yet after Gohan said that Piccolo still rushed in to fight Tagoma... Weighted...

The only way for that to make sense is for Gohan to be far weaker than Piccolo in base.

Another thing I thought of while watching today's episode: Wouldn't 18 be stronger than Basil since Goku and Vegeta never questioned her power like they did with Kuririn?

[Bullza]

Yet after Gohan said that Piccolo still rushed in to fight Tagoma... Weighted...

I don't remember what Gohan said beforehand. The comment about Tagoma having power comparable to his healthy condition comes from the preview for that episode. He said that and then says something about how his power is getting higher which would refer to when Ginyu took over.

At best Piccolo without weights should just be about as strong as Gohan. That's how it looked in the Universe 6 saga. If you wanna mix and match with the movies you could say

Piccolo without weights = Shisami = Tagoma = Gohan

Another thing I thought of while watching today's episode: Wouldn't 18 be stronger than Basil since Goku and Vegeta never questioned her power like they did with Kuririn?

Possibly. There should be a wealth of difference between 18 and Krillin and it's not like Basil had that huge of an advantage over Krillin. I just wonder why they didn't have that imagination battle with Roshi or Tien instead.

[omaro34]

Kuririn is at the same level, though a bit weaker, as the base Saiyans, as I speculated last week.

I wouldn't be surprised if Krillin is stronger than Piccolo now, as stupid as that sounds. Even though Piccolo was always far stronger in the series.

It seems Krillin is the beneficiary of the mystical power ups this time around instead of FT Trunks.

[ZombieVito]

Yet after Gohan said that Piccolo still rushed in to fight Tagoma... Weighted...

I don't remember what Gohan said beforehand. The comment about Tagoma having power comparable to his healthy condition comes from the preview for that episode. He said that and then says something about how his power is getting higher which would refer to when Ginyu took over.

At best Piccolo without weights should just be about as strong as Gohan. That's how it looked in the Universe 6 saga. If you wanna mix and match with the movies you could say

Piccolo without weights = Shisami = Tagoma = Gohan

Another thing I thought of while watching today's episode: Wouldn't 18 be stronger than Basil since Goku and Vegeta never questioned her power like they did with Kuririn?

Possibly. There should be a wealth of difference between 18 and Krillin and it's not like Basil had that huge of an advantage over Krillin. I just wonder why they didn't have that imagination battle with Roshi or Tien instead.

That was actually said in the episode, not the preview.

It just doesn't make sense to me for Piccolo to attack someone like that if he is weaker. Gohan even says in the Freeza arc that Piccolo is not the fighter that gets overconfident and underestimate an opponent.

Kuririn is stronger than both of them so why bother doing it?

[ChiefWamsutta]

I really think we need to not take this episode's powerscaling too seriously.

It's important to remember that Goku knows Krillin has confidence issues. Goku overshadowed Krillin very early on. He respects his best friend tremendously, so he likely held back a lot of his power. He went SSBlue to point out that there will be strong fighters in the tournament. He was testing to see if Krillin would back down.

Props to him though because he never stopped trying even against a suppressed SSBlue Goku Kamehameha. This episode was to show how Krillin and #18 are tacticians that will provide courage and heart to the U7 team.

The powerscaling still remains: Krillin < #18 < Base Gohan = Base Goku < SS Gohan = SS Goku <<< SSB Goku

[ZombieVito]

I really think we need to not take this episode's powerscaling too seriously.

It's important to remember that Goku knows Krillin has confidence issues. Goku overshadowed Krillin very early on. He respects his best friend tremendously, so he likely held back a lot of his power. He went SSBlue to point out that there will be strong fighters in the tournament. He was testing to see if Krillin would back down.

Props to him though because he never stopped trying even against a suppressed SSBlue Goku Kamehameha. This episode was to show how Krillin and #18 are tacticians that will provide courage and heart to the U7 team.

The powerscaling still remains: Krillin < #18 < Base Gohan = Base Goku < SS Gohan = SS Goku <<< SSB Goku

It was very obvious Goku held back. After transforming into Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue he even asks Kuririn: What are you going to do now?

Their fight was a test to see how Kuririn would react to strong opponents. In other words, a test of will.

[Saiyan007]

I mean it's like people forget characters can hold back by a lot

Beerus slapped Bulma yet she survived don't see why people are complaining when it's obvious Goku was just testing Krillin

[ChiefWamsutta]

I really think we need to not take this episode's powerscaling too seriously.

It's important to remember that Goku knows Krillin has confidence issues. Goku overshadowed Krillin very early on. He respects his best friend tremendously, so he likely held back a lot of his power. He went SSBlue to point out that there will be strong fighters in the tournament. He was testing to see if Krillin would back down.

Props to him though because he never stopped trying even against a suppressed SSBlue Goku Kamehameha. This episode was to show how Krillin and #18 are tacticians that will provide courage and heart to the U7 team.

The powerscaling still remains: Krillin < #18 < Base Gohan = Base Goku < SS Gohan = SS Goku <<< SSB Goku

It was very obvious Goku held back. After transforming into Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue he even asks Kuririn: What are you going to do now?

Their fight was a test to see how Kuririn would react to strong opponents. In other words, a test of will.

I mean it's like people forget characters can hold back by a lot

Beerus slapped Bulma yet she survived don't see why people are complaining when it's obvious Goku was just testing Krillin

I completely agree with you both. The fact that #18 was freaking out to Gohan saying, "He's fighting THE Son Goku," shows that Krillin was no match for Goku at all.


Also, I'm feeling that Krillin trained hard enough to be above Final Form Frieza (Namek Saga) but still below Android #18.

[precita]

Also, I'm feeling that Krillin trained hard enough to be above Final Form Frieza (Namek Saga) but still below Android #18.

He would have to be below Dr. Gero and Android 19 too. Or Cyborg Freeza on Earth.

I mean you guys are being awfully generous. It's rather obvious that none of the humans really got barely any stronger after Namek ended.

[ZombieVito]

Also, I'm feeling that Krillin trained hard enough to be above Final Form Frieza (Namek Saga) but still below Android #18.

Now lets not get crazy here. This episode did imply nicely that Kuririn is in the millions but there's no way he's that strong.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Also, I'm feeling that Krillin trained hard enough to be above Final Form Frieza (Namek Saga) but still below Android #18.

Now lets not get crazy here. This episode did imply nicely that Kuririn is in the millions but there's no way he's that strong.

Fair point, and I am really tired. Where would you put Krillin currently?

Also, I'm feeling that Krillin trained hard enough to be above Final Form Frieza (Namek Saga) but still below Android #18.

He would have to be below Dr. Gero and Android 19 too. Or Cyborg Freeza on Earth.

I mean you guys are being awfully generous. It's rather obvious that none of the humans really got barely any stronger after Namek ended.

Yeah, I'm seeing how I'm probably very wrong, haha. Lack of sleep makes things tough. Where would you put Krillin?

[Berserker1921]

Kuririn is at the same level, though a bit weaker, as the base Saiyans, as I speculated last week.

I wouldn't be surprised if Krillin is stronger than Piccolo now, as stupid as that sounds. Even though Piccolo was always far stronger in the series.

It seems Krillin is the beneficiary of the mystical power ups this time around instead of FT Trunks.

I think everyone misinterpreted what happened in this recent episode. Krillin is nothing to gohan or goku. He is trickier that's all. In this tournament where ring outs count as a win. After I saw krillins super solar flare and cutting under ground people. He almost got goku by a ring out a couple times.

[emperior]

Krillin's real power is still a mystery (and it has been ever since the androids arc) because nobody commented how powerful he is. He is weaker than base Gohan (he was holding back as Krillin stated) but we know Gohan's base is very strong because he has his potential unlocked (fully outlined eyes), even though he can't access his full potential yet and so he still needs to transform in order to bring out more power.
We saw his Kamehameha was a lot weaker and smaller than SSB Goku's one (who was obviously holding back, or else he would have unleashed a massive Super Kamehameha which would have obliterated the building they were fighting on) so we can't gauge Krillin's power from that beam clash at all.

Super is still as mysterious as always about power scale, because at this point Toriyama doesn't know what to do (continuing the trend from Buu arc), so he doesn't write any comparision in his outlines and Toei doesn't want to mess up so they never give us hints, it looks like they keep things up to interpretation.

[apex_pretador]

Why does this episode does not contradict any powerscaling:

- Krillin vs Gohan:

Krillin was nothing to Gohan, who was heavily underestimating Krillin. We saw gohan was massively holding back and still manhandling Krillin initially. However, after being blinded, he was caught off-guard by Krillin and "moved" by him out of the bounds. He did not get a single scratch on his face.

- Krillin vs Goku:

Goku was obviously massively holding back, unless you are suggesting that he was trying to kill Krillin by throwing a kamehameha to him. That kamehameha was so weak that even #18 could easily dissipate it with a kick.
Goku might not be intelligent, but he is not an idiot who would try to kill one of his important team members (and his best friend) right before the big battle, when he doesn't even kill his enemies.

The result:

Goku (base) > Gohan (base) > #18 > Krillin

[namekiansaiyan]

Kuririn is at the same level, though a bit weaker, as the base Saiyans, as I speculated last week.

I wouldn't be surprised if Krillin is stronger than Piccolo now, as stupid as that sounds. Even though Piccolo was always far stronger in the series.

It seems Krillin is the beneficiary of the mystical power ups this time around instead of FT Trunks.

It doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it.

Base Gohan was stronger than Piccolo. Piccolo was massively stronger than Android 18. Android 18 is stronger than Krillin said in both Resurrection F and this episode.

Yet Krillin is able to match up to Base Gohan quite well.

Again it makes you wonder if Piccolo was nerfed because there's a few things that really point toward it.

Wait until you see Piccolo. Piccolo must have improved will probably spar with Gohan to show it and to show Gohan he needs to improve just like this episode said.

[Lord Beerus]

How Krillin managed to launch a Kamehameha that was EVEN with SSJB Goku for f***'s sake?! How could 18 was even able to SURVIVE after contacting his almighty godly energy?! This all was f****** insane!

Remember when Tien was able to hold down Semi Perfect Cell with a string of Kikoho's? Yeah. It's basically that all over again.

Shin Kikoho is an extremely powerful technique with probably a tremendous multiplier. Kuririn was just using a standard Kamehameha.

It so powerful that we see Nappa no sell it in the Saiyan arc. The Kikoho doesn't have a multiplier. The only way to impove the strength of the Kikoho is through training.

Shin~ [New~]
First Appearance: Chapter 373
People: Tenshinhan
Special Characteristics: A technique that increases the force of the Kikoho. An attack that becomes possible when one has improved their abilities through intense training. Tenshinhan fired this technique to stop Cell from moving when Cell was trying to absorb No.18, but he used up all of his power and collapsed. (Daizenshuu 4, p.112)

Remember when Tien was able to hold down Semi Perfect Cell with a string of Kikoho's? Yeah. It's basically that all over again.

Not a good comparison, that technique was just used for stalling time as Cell came back with 0 damage.

Krillin was able to push SSJB Goku's Kamehameha a little and 18 was able to kick it. Super implies that all Z Senshi were dumb to not do the same thing against Cell in his clash with SSJ2 Gohan.

The technique was able to hold down Cell even though Cell was many hundreds of millions of times stronger.

Goku was obviously holding back with Krillin as a SSJB in the beam clash immensely because he doesn't want to kill him. He just wants to gauge his strength.

[DBZ Macky]

Damn, I'd hoped that Krillin would defeat SSB Goku so that I could enjoy my popcorn while reading the posts in this thread.
Anyways, Krillin learnt the Taiyo-ken x100 by working out in his room? How does that even work? Wouldn't it make more sense if he actually trained outside in the presence of the sun rather than lifting some weights?

[Zamasu55]

Damn, I'd hoped that Krillin would defeat SSB Goku so that I could enjoy my popcorn while reading the posts in this thread.
Anyways, Krillin learnt the Taiyo-ken x100 by working out in his room? How does that even work? Wouldn't it make more sense if he actually trained outside in the presence of the sun rather than lifting some weights?

Don't worry, this shitty saga has already surpassed the nonsense we witnessed in the previous arc in less than 10 episodes.

[dragonballgeek]

Damn, I'd hoped that Krillin would defeat SSB Goku so that I could enjoy my popcorn while reading the posts in this thread.
Anyways, Krillin learnt the Taiyo-ken x100 by working out in his room? How does that even work? Wouldn't it make more sense if he actually trained outside in the presence of the sun rather than lifting some weights?

Don't worry, this shitty saga has already surpassed the nonsense we witnessed in the previous arc in less than 10 episodes.

I think that's the source of my bitterness. The fact that hat they were lazy about the process of improving krillins strength.

To be honest if Whis spent the last 8 hours strictly training the stragglers in the hyperbolic time chamber, I could believe just about any outcome of power scaling. One thing I've learned about lifting is if you don't mix up your workout, you'll hit a plateau. Training with Whis could get them over their power hump and open more doors for them.

I'm not saying I don't want the B team to become stronger. I want it done in a way thats not lazy. Aka buying weight sets to get stronger.