Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Isn't this kind of impossible if 18 is still stronger than him?

Why is it impossible? Because of the "base Gohan > Piccolo" nonsense? That wasn't even proven, people took statements out of hand and blew them out of proportion.

[The gr]

Base vegeta straight up said that he and cabba were equal in base.

But vegeta just tank a hit from a ssj1 cabba ,I really don't believe if there equal, there were really suppressing their base form until hit, plus it explains why goku was doing a good job against hit in his base form

Cabba just got the transformation while vegeta had that shit and many more variations for years and nothing implied vegeta was surpassing himself against him.

It really looks like vegeta was surpressed his base form

because we Know base goku from rof≥ssj1 absorbed ssj god essence≥ssj God, because it was stated, that the way you could sense god ki,is by reaching the level of high power or get god ki, cabba did not sense the pressure from ssb Vegeta,so it must be possible that Vegeta was surpressing himself, because cabba did not felt the inmense pressure

[ekrolo2]

Isn't this kind of impossible if 18 is still stronger than him?

Why is it impossible? Because of the "base Gohan > Piccolo" nonsense? That wasn't even proven, people took statements out of hand and blew them out of proportion.

Nah, because 18 hasn't improved, at all, there's literally nothing ever at all that says she has. Her being on the level of Base Goku & Gohan probably would be mentioned but the stories lack of said mentioning leads me to believe the writers just assume she's as strong as before and Krillin remains inferior to her level of power from over 10 in-universe years previously.

[Doctor.]

Isn't this kind of impossible if 18 is still stronger than him?

Why is it impossible? Because of the "base Gohan > Piccolo" nonsense? That wasn't even proven, people took statements out of hand and blew them out of proportion.

Nah, because 18 hasn't improved, at all, there's literally nothing ever at all that says she has. Her being on the level of Base Goku & Gohan probably would be mentioned but the stories lack of said mentioning leads me to believe the writers just assume she's as strong as before and Krillin remains inferior to her level of power from over 10 in-universe years previously.

Considering I'm arguing that base Gohan and base Goku are still more-or-less at the same level they were in the Boo arc (depending on the episodes, that is), then #18 is vastly stronger than them.

[ekrolo2]

Why is it impossible? Because of the "base Gohan > Piccolo" nonsense? That wasn't even proven, people took statements out of hand and blew them out of proportion.

Nah, because 18 hasn't improved, at all, there's literally nothing ever at all that says she has. Her being on the level of Base Goku & Gohan probably would be mentioned but the stories lack of said mentioning leads me to believe the writers just assume she's as strong as before and Krillin remains inferior to her level of power from over 10 in-universe years previously.

Considering I'm arguing that base Gohan and base Goku are still more-or-less at the same level they were in the Boo arc (depending on the episodes, that is), then #18 is vastly stronger than them.

I kind of can't buy that. The Hit two-parter implied Goku in regular Blue is strong enough to nullify Hit's Time Skip which Goku needed KKX10 to pull off before, that implies a pretty big increase must've happened for him just from the U6 arc onwards.

[pacz360]

But vegeta just tank a hit from a ssj1 cabba ,I really don't believe if there equal, there were really suppressing their base form until hit, plus it explains why goku was doing a good job against hit in his base form

Cabba just got the transformation while vegeta had that shit and many more variations for years and nothing implied vegeta was surpassing himself against him.

It really looks like vegeta was surpressed his base form

because we Know base goku from rof≥ssj1 absorbed ssj god essence≥ssj God, because it was stated, that the way you could sense god ki,is by reaching the level of high power or get god ki, cabba did not sense the pressure from ssb Vegeta,so it must be possible that Vegeta was surpressing himself, because cabba did not felt the inmense pressure

Nothing even implied let alone hinted that he was holding back in base.

[Doctor.]

I kind of can't buy that. The Hit two-parter implied Goku in regular Blue is strong enough to nullify Hit's Time Skip which Goku needed KKX10 to pull off before, that implies a pretty big increase must've happened for him just from the U6 arc onwards.

I realize that, but I rationalize that as a x2 boost (since Hit was only fighting KKx2 Goku in ep. 40, x10 changes his skin color as well as the arena atmosphere).

Even a 10x boost could still leave base Goku weaker than #18 though, depending on how much you consider the difference between her and namek Freeza is.

[The gr]

Cabba just got the transformation while vegeta had that shit and many more variations for years and nothing implied vegeta was surpassing himself against him.

It really looks like vegeta was surpressed his base form

because we Know base goku from rof≥ssj1 absorbed ssj god essence≥ssj God, because it was stated, that the way you could sense god ki,is by reaching the level of high power or get god ki, cabba did not sense the pressure from ssb Vegeta,so it must be possible that Vegeta was surpressing himself, because cabba did not felt the inmense pressure

Nothing even implied let alone hinted that he was holding back in base.

Hmm I guess your right, but I'm just holding that theory, because is the ones that make a lot of sense

[TheMikado]

Look, I agree with Doctor. It's obvious Goku/Vegeta aren't supposed to be as strong as they have been portrayed in the anime. I'll admit that this was one of her things I held against Super back on the Champa arc when it all started to first unravel. Now I don't even notice it much but I will definitely comment when people try to act like it's business as usual for he series. As it stands now we have no idea where Krillin is in relation to the SSJ Gotenks from the copy water arc. I think this is the first and only question and we can determine where everyone is as that's literally the strongest Z level character and comparing him directly to the weakest Super level form.

So the question become is Krillin stronger or weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks in the copy water arc and by how much?

[pacz360]

So is piccolo during namek was comparable to final form freeza went he kicked the guy hard enough to the ocean
Was trunks comparable to fat buu when he kicked him when he was fighting vegeta?
I mean if that was the case then kid trunks = buu

No, because Freeza was about to kill Goku and wasn't worried that he'd get attacked from behind.
Fat Boo was about to kill Vegeta and wasn't worried he'd get attacked from behind.

You see the similarity here? No, the cases aren't comparable at all. Kuririn vs Gohan was a 1v1, in which Kuririn was at top strength and where Gohan should have (and did, in fact) had his guard up. The fact that it was a 1v1, Gohan had his guard up and Kuririn STILL managed to land blows on Gohan proves that they're comparable. You're just damage controlling for some reason I can't understand, nobody's saying Kuririn is stronger than Gohan.

I'm not damage controlling your that trying to push krillin being somewhat comparable to the base saiyans even though it was the opposite
My point is that both charcters i mention were highly superior to those got kicked by characters who more or less are flys to them piccolo shouldn't even move a guy like freeza who withstood a kkx20 kamehameha and buu who clowned gohan,dabura and majin vegeta shouldn't been moved by trunks at all.
gohan wasn't serious with krillin and underestimate him and paid the price for it.

[pacz360]

Look, I agree with Doctor. It's obvious Goku/Vegeta aren't supposed to be as strong as they have been portrayed in the anime. I'll admit that this was one of her things I held against Super back on the Champa arc when it all started to first unravel. Now I don't even notice it much but I will definitely comment when people try to act like it's business as usual for he series. As it stands now we have no idea where Krillin is in relation to the SSJ Gotenks from the copy water arc. I think this is the first and only question and we can determine where everyone is as that's literally the strongest Z level character and comparing him directly to the weakest Super level form.

So the question become is Krillin stronger or weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks in the copy water arc and by how much?

Dear god krillin was no where near their league of power gohan swat his ass like a bug and krillin went straight to solar x100 to win thats it goku and gohan were straight up holding back why are you acting they cant do that
Bulma survived a hit from beerus must mean she's god level too rightmconidring she also punched base goku
Hell mr satan survived an attack from beerus god level satan

[Bullza]

Isn't this kind of impossible if 18 is still stronger than him?

Why is it impossible? Because of the "base Gohan > Piccolo" nonsense? That wasn't even proven, people took statements out of hand and blew them out of proportion.

That was just the statement that was given. Herms said this

"It's not "prime" in the sense of the strongest he's ever been in his entire life, but more like "peak condition", in the sense of his current personal best, when he isn't tired/wounded/etc.

Obviously Gohan wasn't referring to himself as a Super Saiyan because that was much stronger.

So if Tagoma has power that rivals Gohan's in peak condition and Tagoma didn't even budge when Piccolo punched him and he effortlessly ripped his arm off then how isn't Gohan stronger?

Frieza even said that Gohan could have wiped his army whole out in an instant if he wanted to. He didn't say that about Piccolo which also implies Gohan is stronger.

[pacz360]

It really looks like vegeta was surpressed his base form

because we Know base goku from rof≥ssj1 absorbed ssj god essence≥ssj God, because it was stated, that the way you could sense god ki,is by reaching the level of high power or get god ki, cabba did not sense the pressure from ssb Vegeta,so it must be possible that Vegeta was surpressing himself, because cabba did not felt the inmense pressure

Nothing even implied let alone hinted that he was holding back in base.

Hmm I guess your right, but I'm just holding that theory, because is the ones that make a lot of sense

I can respect that.

[ekrolo2]

So is piccolo during namek was comparable to final form freeza went he kicked the guy hard enough to the ocean
Was trunks comparable to fat buu when he kicked him when he was fighting vegeta?
I mean if that was the case then kid trunks = buu

No, because Freeza was about to kill Goku and wasn't worried that he'd get attacked from behind.
Fat Boo was about to kill Vegeta and wasn't worried he'd get attacked from behind.

You see the similarity here? No, the cases aren't comparable at all. Kuririn vs Gohan was a 1v1, in which Kuririn was at top strength and where Gohan should have (and did, in fact) had his guard up. The fact that it was a 1v1, Gohan had his guard up and Kuririn STILL managed to land blows on Gohan proves that they're comparable. You're just damage controlling for some reason I can't understand, nobody's saying Kuririn is stronger than Gohan.

I'm not damage controlling your that trying to push krillin being somewhat comparable to the base saiyans even though it was the opposite
My point is that both charcters i mention were highly superior to those got kicked by characters who more or less are flys to them piccolo shouldn't even move a guy like freeza who withstood a kkx20 kamehameha and buu who clowned gohan,dabura and majin vegeta shouldn't been moved by trunks at all.
gohan wasn't serious with krillin and underestimate him and paid the price for it.

Except it's shown that if you take someone by surprise, you can hurt them or make them budge. That's why Piccolo can knock Freeza away or why Trunks can force Boo off of Vegeta.

The only reason Goku's Kamehameha even hurt Cell instead of just getting knock away is because he vanished for a second then reappeared and by the time Cell realized WTF was going on, he got half his body blown away.

[Doctor.]

Obviously Gohan wasn't referring to himself as a Super Saiyan because that was much stronger.

Then Gohan overestimated him. You're also forgetting Piccolo had his weights on.

[Beyond]

If only 18 had show up during the fight with Frieza, It would have answered some questions.

[Cabba]

didn't anyone know That​ Goku and Vegeta were suppressed them selves in u6,because piccolo is not god tier and cabba is not even with Vegeta.anyways ,here krillin power,he is around 69,000,000 meanwhile base Gohan is around 80,000,000, because krillin was doing ok against a base gohan, through he is still weak than namek frieza, Android and the kids

Krillin is not stronger than namek freeza, krillin is reacom tier if we are being generous
This episode was just lazy filler, the screwed up trying to get a point across

[pacz360]

No, because Freeza was about to kill Goku and wasn't worried that he'd get attacked from behind.
Fat Boo was about to kill Vegeta and wasn't worried he'd get attacked from behind.

You see the similarity here? No, the cases aren't comparable at all. Kuririn vs Gohan was a 1v1, in which Kuririn was at top strength and where Gohan should have (and did, in fact) had his guard up. The fact that it was a 1v1, Gohan had his guard up and Kuririn STILL managed to land blows on Gohan proves that they're comparable. You're just damage controlling for some reason I can't understand, nobody's saying Kuririn is stronger than Gohan.

I'm not damage controlling your that trying to push krillin being somewhat comparable to the base saiyans even though it was the opposite
My point is that both charcters i mention were highly superior to those got kicked by characters who more or less are flys to them piccolo shouldn't even move a guy like freeza who withstood a kkx20 kamehameha and buu who clowned gohan,dabura and majin vegeta shouldn't been moved by trunks at all.
gohan wasn't serious with krillin and underestimate him and paid the price for it.

Except it's shown that if you take someone by surprise, you can hurt them or make them budge. That's why Piccolo can knock Freeza away or why Trunks can force Boo off of Vegeta.

The only reason Goku's Kamehameha even hurt Cell instead of just getting knock away is because he vanished for a second then reappeared and by the time Cell realized WTF was going on, he got half his body blown away.

And same thing happened to gohan he didn't expect krillin solar flare to be more powerful than regular and got his senses fucked up and ringed out in a hurry

[pacz360]

Base goku stronger than perfect cell the dude was matching base vegeta who stomped ssj3 gotenks.

didn't anyone know That​ Goku and Vegeta were suppressed them selves in u6,because piccolo is not god tier and cabba is not even with Vegeta.anyways ,here krillin power,he is around 69,000,000 meanwhile base Gohan is around 80,000,000, because krillin was doing ok against a base gohan, through he is still weak than namek frieza, Android and the kids

Krillin is not stronger than namek freeza, krillin is reacom tier if we are being generous
This episode was just lazy filler, the screwed up trying to get a point across[/quote]
Same filler that was refrenced in the black saga by goku

[Cabba]

Even a 10x boost could still leave base Goku weaker than #18 though, depending on how much you consider the difference between her and namek Freeza is.

lol do you seriously consider Goku base had no progress since namek saga? At the very least he is perfect cell tier depending of the episode
He went toe to toe against Bergamo the strongest of all brothers in his base form alone

Even Goten and Trunks were fighting somewhat evenly against 18 in their base form at the tournament