Ever since Super's release, people are very quick to dismiss all criticisms about power level inconsistencies. Why?

[ekrolo2]

Heck you can compare so much of Super's shit outside of even power levels that was the same in GT, but for some reason it's now ok. I take it as maybe some fans grew up perhaps. Though it's odd how all of these moments were so harshly criticized in GT, but in Super people ask you to ignore it and it doesn't matter no more.

There's definitely truth to that. It's likely due to the fact that one comes with a complimentary Toriyama sticker and one doesn't. Additionally, when many argue against GT, they will excessively and instinctively parrot the ever-so popular phrases "Good ideas, bad execution" and "Pan is so annoying" and the like. Rare will you see anyone go into a deeper, worthwhile analysis of GT. To be more basic, I think the problem comes from the fact that many of only seen GT once, and quite a while ago (if at all). Secondly, you have these catch-all regurgitated phrases (mentioned above) that people can use as placeholders for actual analysis, whereas Super is new enough that it hasn't developed those yet.

Here's something funny that I noticed in my recent re-watch of GT: A lot of those old, notorious criticisms of GT are totally made up. The first one that comes to mind is the "Trunks injured by a car crash" complaint, which was quite a popular critique at one time (though luckily you don't hear it much anymore). However, if you've actually watched GT, you'd know that such an event never happened. What those who once argued that position were probably doing is echoing someone who misremembered the scene where Trunks was initially attacked by 17. That's not the only one, although it's certainly one of the more prominent faux-criticisms, to be fair.

I don't think we can deny that at the very least, people are far more biased against GT than Super

Pan being annoying also feels like a dub thing cuz she's perfectly​ fine in the Japanese version but I doubt most outside Kanzenshuu have even seen all of dubbed GT, much less the original version.

[dbzfan7]

Heck you can compare so much of Super's shit outside of even power levels that was the same in GT, but for some reason it's now ok. I take it as maybe some fans grew up perhaps. Though it's odd how all of these moments were so harshly criticized in GT, but in Super people ask you to ignore it and it doesn't matter no more.

There's definitely truth to that. It's likely due to the fact that one comes with a complimentary Toriyama sticker and one doesn't. Additionally, when many argue against GT, they will excessively and instinctively parrot the ever-so popular phrases "Good ideas, bad execution" and "Pan is so annoying" and the like. Rare will you see anyone go into a deeper, worthwhile analysis of GT. To be more basic, I think the problem comes from the fact that many of only seen GT once, and quite a while ago (if at all). Secondly, you have these catch-all regurgitated phrases (mentioned above) that people can use as placeholders for actual analysis, whereas Super is new enough that it hasn't developed those yet.

Here's something funny that I noticed in my recent re-watch of GT: A lot of those old, notorious criticisms of GT are totally made up. The first one that comes to mind is the "Trunks injured by a car crash" complaint, which was quite a popular critique at one time (though luckily you don't hear it much anymore). However, if you've actually watched GT, you'd know that such an event never happened. What those who once argued that position were probably doing is echoing someone who misremembered the scene where Trunks was initially attacked by 17. That's not the only one, although it's certainly one of the more prominent faux-criticisms, to be fair.

I don't think we can deny that at the very least, people are far more biased against GT than Super

Pan being annoying also feels like a dub thing cuz she's perfectly​ fine in the Japanese version but I doubt most outside Kanzenshuu have even seen all of dubbed GT, much less the original version.

Nah she annoyed me in the japanese version too for like...the first arc I think...and then didn't. Mainly cause of early whining. After that stopped she was fine.

[Miracles]

I feel like you completely missed the point here... I recommend reading some of these posts.

My goodness... I really hope other people see this.


THIS is exactly what people are talking about. Turning a blind eye and convincing yourself it makes sense


Let's just completely forget Goku having to exclusively learn this technique from King Kai. Let's just give it to Trunks and the kids because they really want to win. Nevermind the process/training Goku had to go through to master that technique.

Genki dama is a technique, not something that just happens!!!

Because a genki dama is filled with the hopes of all the earth [canon].
That world hoped for Trunks to defeat Zamasu and so it was.
Nothing complicated about it.

Genki dama is a technique, not something that just happens!!!

You didn't notice those Genki-Dama's falling all over the place in the background of the original manga? Yeah... no. Sorry Miracles, the same nonsensical explanation that Super gave doesn't suddenly work just because you repeat it in addition to saying ""Nothing complicated about it" or putting the word canon in parenthesis. I know forcing continuity is kind of your thing, but it literally cannot jive given the precedents set by the entire series previous.

First of all, who posted Trunks knew how to use Genki Dama? Not the series nor did I.Trunks didn't call it a Genki dama! However, it's just like it. All a Genki dama does is takes energy from people while the person focuses on the living beings hopes and concentrates it into energy. It appears Trunks was unconsciously doing these things. That fits all the requirements previously shown in Dragonball for one to harness said energy. This is why the show focused on Trunks defeating Zamasu. In that future world, Trunks was everyone's hero. Their hopes were in him. Hence why Mr. Satan was able to get the energy for Goku against Majin Buu because the people saw him as a champion and hoped in him. One knowing the technique is not enough it's all about people's hopes in one and trunks doesn't not need training for any of that.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That fits all the requirements previously shown in Dragonball for one to harness said energy.

That's simply not the case. The Genki-dama beforehand was never demonstrated as anything other than a technique. It's also something that has always had to be meticulously collected, formed, aimed, and launched. That's not to say what Trunks did doesn't fit any of the criteria, but it doesn't fit most of the important ones, and I can't imagine why you're ignoring that.

One knowing the technique is not enough it's all about people's hopes in one and trunks doesn't not need training for any of that.

Then why did Goku have to be trained? Additionally, why does Goku have to meticulously cultivate the Genki-dama every time he uses it? If what you suggest were the case, a Genki-dama would have been formed against the Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo Daimao, Freeza, the Future Androids, Cell, and Boo. Saying that one doesn't actually have to know the technique to use it is silly given the set precedents. Then again, Dragon Ball Super did it anyway, so I guess that makes it an absurd show.

[Miracles]

That's simply not the case. The Genki-dama beforehand was never demonstrated as anything other than a technique. It's also something that has always had to be meticulously collected, formed, aimed, and launched. That's not to say what Trunks did doesn't fit any of the criteria, but it doesn't fit most of the important ones, and I can't imagine why you're ignoring that. Then why did Goku have to be trained? Additionally, why does Goku have to meticulously cultivate the Genki-dama every time he uses it? If what you suggest were the case, a Genki-dama would have been formed against the Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo Daimao, Freeza, the Future Androids, Cell, and Boo. Saying that one doesn't actually have to know the technique to use it is silly given the set precedents. Then again, Dragon Ball Super did it anyway, so I guess that makes it an absurd show.

Dude, In Episode 67, Goku even states Trunks attack was "like a spirit bomb." Trunks goes on to say; "it's because of everyone...Thanks to them." This does not mean it IS a Genki dama but similar to it. So, Trunks wouldn't need the training for the receiving of energy of others in that regard. Super is not ridiculous or contradicting, it is the fans who are inconsistent, again.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

In Episode 67, Goku even states Trunks attack was "like a spirit bomb." Trunks goes on to say; "it's because of everyone...Thanks to them." This does not mean it IS a Genki dama but similar to it. So, Super is not ridiculous or inconsistent, it is the fans who are inconsistent, again.

We had provisional titles for official material that literally called it Genki-dama sword. On top of the fact that it already obviously was a Genki-dama sword. These are facts, not up for debate. So no. it's not fans who are inconsistent when official material all but confirms this nonsense.

You're what's known as an apologist.

[Miracles]

In Episode 67, Goku even states Trunks attack was "like a spirit bomb." Trunks goes on to say; "it's because of everyone...Thanks to them." This does not mean it IS a Genki dama but similar to it. So, Super is not ridiculous or inconsistent, it is the fans who are inconsistent, again.

We had provisional titles for official material that literally called it Genki-dama sword. On top of it visually appearing exactly like a Genki-Dama.

Doesn't matter. In the actual canon episode, in every translation that I have seen, they all continue to say "LIKE" a Genki dama.
Provisional titles are not set in stone and subject to change.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Doesn't matter. In the actual canon episode, in every translation that I have seen, they all continue to say "LIKE" a Genki dama.

But it's not even like a Genki-dama in any fundamental sense, only in its application. Explaining nonsense doesn't make it sensible

[Miracles]

Doesn't matter. In the actual canon episode, in every translation that I have seen, they all continue to say "LIKE" a Genki dama.

But it's not even like a Genki-dama in any fundamental sense, only in its application. Explaining nonsense doesn't make it sensible

You see, this is what mixes the fandom up. It's not the series. Too much bias by the fans to admit that they overlooked things. Unwilling to accept the fact that Trunks used a technique similar to Genki Dama. It is "like" a Genki dama due to the fact that Trunks used other people's energy in the same shadow as a Genki dama. This is not nonsense but a canon truth that the attack is not a Genki dama.

[Asura]

Why are people talking as if GT had no good interactions? I enjoyed most of the interactions in GT. We had Gohan and pan moments, A solid Gohan and Piccolo moment, the whole baby ideal and how Goku showed concern when his friends were possessed. Honestly, you just bash on GT for the fun of it now.

I don't really see anyone bashing GT for not having good character interactions in this thread, but I think the character interactions between Goku and Pan are some of the best the entire series has to offer, and it definitely shows how mature Goku has become and how much he really cares about protecting and looking out for her. One thing I really like about GT is it shows that there is more to Goku than "WAKU WAKU I'm GETTING EXCITED LETS FIGHT" which is basically what Super Goku is non-stop. It gets really old after awhile.

Yeah sorry, I was just talking in general haha. Although I agree with you there completely. GT SSJ4 Goku was shown more to be than just a battle hungry idiot. He had such a protective and manly side to his portrayal that I simply admire. His relationship with Pan digged deeply into the whole family bonding feel, and you could tell he loved his grandchild so much. The whole scenario with Ice shenron is a perfect example of a mature Goku who's willing to put his family ahead of his battles.

You know, I just watched that episode the other day, and I completely agree with you about SSJ4 Goku. It's not just my favorite form because of how it looks, but just because of how Goku acts. He's incredibly protective, more-so than he's ever been in DB, Z, and Super.

One line that really hit me was during fight against the 7 star dragon, the one where's he's almost forced to kill Pan, and after he saves her and de-escalates the situation he tells the dragon "Because of you, I came this close to losing the thing that is most precious to me..." - Even if someone doesn't like Pan, they've gotta admit that's heartwarming as fuck and shows just how manly and mature Goku has become. Sadly, Super's Goku is absolutely nowhere near GT Goku in terms of that maturity level. The episode where he was babysitting Pan was nice though, although nowhere near as nice as the relationship they show on-screen in GT.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Back on topic though, the question is not "why do people like Super despite it's inconsistencies?" to which the answer is personal preference, some just don't care and it lets other characters shine, which is a perfectly suitable position to take. However, the question is really basically "why does Super's inconsistencies get an immediate pass when similar things that happened in GT and other parts of the franchise are completely shit on for it?" Obviously if you give a pass on Super and DB/Z/GT's inconsistencies and don't care, then this does not apply to you. I never said anything like "a majority of the fanbase does this, why?" I just said there seem to be quite a number of people that do this, why?

So far I think the "Toriyama Seal of Approval" and "The series isn't over yet" are the most valid answers, although the Toriyama seal of approval conclusion has some holes in it since people don't always love every Toriyama-made product (Dragon Ball Minus)

[Luso Saiyan]

I saw someone ask this in a thread somewhere, and it got me thinking as well. Why, all of a sudden, now that Super is a thing, do people suddenly dismiss any kind of criticisms about power levels (not even power levels, just consistency in power) as a non-factor?

Power levels aren't consistent. That's why the very concept was dropped to begin with. Power is volatile and not something that can be accurately measured.

Super has had a ton of problems with power relativity. I'm not even talking strict power level numbers here, I just mean in proportion to who is stronger than who and how.

Who is stronger than who is not and never was a problem. It's always established who is stronger than who. The how is also explained or inferred. Wether you like it or not is not a factor.

The Future Trunks arc was the worst offender of this,

How? Why?

but the events of last night's episode (84) in where Krillin actually manages to fend off a Super Saiyan Blue Kamehameha for awhile, has once again gotten people up in arms.

Krillin wasn't able to fend off anything. Watch the episode again, perhaps? And if the fact that Krillin managed to hold off for a few seconds is reason for a ruckuss then "the joke" is on them. It's not the fault of others that some people can't see the forest for the trees, like I mentioned in the episode thread. It's a pity that good discussions are being superseded by power arguments based on irrelevant minutiae.

[Soppa Saia People]

WTF is even happening here? what is this, fucking youtube?

You mean, it's not? On a serious note, I never got when anyone talks like youtube comment section is any worse. In my eyes, all boards of discussion and feedback from comments to forums are generally the same in regards to the range of insightfulness and childishness.

YT comments are really bad though. Who could forget comments like, "ni***** gonna nig", "i say they was right. every gay needs 2 die", or "
I'm a centrist you spastic. Get out of your echo chamber. Your side are the real racists". All real comments. I mean a lot of forums/websites have shit like that too, but their not that blatant.
That last one reminds me of this image reddit.png

[TheMikado]

There's definitely truth to that. It's likely due to the fact that one comes with a complimentary Toriyama sticker and one doesn't. Additionally, when many argue against GT, they will excessively and instinctively parrot the ever-so popular phrases "Good ideas, bad execution" and "Pan is so annoying" and the like. Rare will you see anyone go into a deeper, worthwhile analysis of GT. To be more basic, I think the problem comes from the fact that many of only seen GT once, and quite a while ago (if at all). Secondly, you have these catch-all regurgitated phrases (mentioned above) that people can use as placeholders for actual analysis, whereas Super is new enough that it hasn't developed those yet.

Here's something funny that I noticed in my recent re-watch of GT: A lot of those old, notorious criticisms of GT are totally made up. The first one that comes to mind is the "Trunks injured by a car crash" complaint, which was quite a popular critique at one time (though luckily you don't hear it much anymore). However, if you've actually watched GT, you'd know that such an event never happened. What those who once argued that position were probably doing is echoing someone who misremembered the scene where Trunks was initially attacked by 17. That's not the only one, although it's certainly one of the more prominent faux-criticisms, to be fair.

I don't think we can deny that at the very least, people are far more biased against GT than Super

Pan being annoying also feels like a dub thing cuz she's perfectly​ fine in the Japanese version but I doubt most outside Kanzenshuu have even seen all of dubbed GT, much less the original version.

Nah she annoyed me in the japanese version too for like...the first arc I think...and then didn't. Mainly cause of early whining. After that stopped she was fine.

I think that was part of her character development. She was spoiled and entitled. She was probably the strongest girl in the world and only the other saiyans were stronger than her.
Plus she had wealthy Mr. Satan as her overbearing grandfather and friends at capsule corp. Likely the same symptom as Chibi Trunks, she was definitely annoying but legitimately grew up a bit which was nice.

[TheMikado]

In Episode 67, Goku even states Trunks attack was "like a spirit bomb." Trunks goes on to say; "it's because of everyone...Thanks to them." This does not mean it IS a Genki dama but similar to it. So, Super is not ridiculous or inconsistent, it is the fans who are inconsistent, again.

We had provisional titles for official material that literally called it Genki-dama sword. On top of it visually appearing exactly like a Genki-Dama.

Doesn't matter. In the actual canon episode, in every translation that I have seen, they all continue to say "LIKE" a Genki dama.
Provisional titles are not set in stone and subject to change.

Hey my tennis shoes are LIKE/SIMILAR to my dress shoes.
Guess what, they are both shoes that operate and perform similar functions.
Guess what, the both have a similar manufacturing process etc.

If you want to use the analogy of techniques

Aikido, Judo, Karate and Jujitsu are similar Japanese martial arts.
Obviously NOT the same, but related. And guess what, each different style of technique requires some training to perform effectively.

I honestly don't even care about this at all because as I have said before Super has set a precedent within the series of characters randomly busting out moves with no foreshadowing so this didn't even make me blink. But let's not pretend its justified in-universe, its @$$pull BS, but in my opinion is so par for the course in Super it isn't even worth talking about.

[buutenks]

Eh, I recently saw GT and it isn't as good as Super. The movie retelings were bad apart from some episodes, namely ep 27 and eps 13 and 14 and the ssg ritual IMO was better since it was godly, but from there on U6 arc, FT arc and slice of life EPs were all miles above GT.

[Asura]

Power levels aren't consistent. That's why the very concept was dropped to begin with. Power is volatile and not something that can be accurately measured.

Yes, that is true. But why now that Super is displaying this, suddenly everyone is okay with it? Why don't you hear anyone defending GT, even today, for those exact same reasons that Super is at fault of? What makes it okay for Super, but not for GT? Is it because Toriyama is involved? Is it because the series isn't done yet, so people are more lenient about it? Is it that people are just happy to have a new Dragon Ball series after so long (in contrast to GT airing right after Z) that they'll ignore a lot of the problems?

Who is stronger than who is not and never was a problem. It's always established who is stronger than who. The how is also explained or inferred. Wether you like it or not is not a factor.

I'll answer this and your next question in one package. So tell me, who is the strongest in the Future Trunks arc? Goku, Vegeta, or Trunks? Each of them seem to somehow do feats the others can't do, although the worst offender is clearly Trunks, who seems to be as strong, if not stronger, than SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta. For example, first we see Goku & Vegeta getting slaughtered by Zamasu and Black. Trunks transforms and is somehow more powerful and can last against Zamasu & Black for waaaayy longer (a couple of minutes of SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta fighting and they were pretty much knocked out. Trunks somehow survives for an entire day against them in contrast).

And before all of this, don't forget about the Trunks & Goku vs Zamasu & Black fight which, while incredibly visually appealing and fun to watch, also makes no sense. Trunks was getting slaughtered easily by regular Black, yet now he's able to fight SSR Black? Obviously he loses, but the fact that he can put up more of a fight against SSR Black than he can regular Black doesn't make sense. This was before he even got his SS Rage power-up.

Then they return to the past, Vegeta gets stronger from the time chamber, and we then see him proceed to beat Black. So Vegeta > Goku right? (aside from kaioken) But then again, Merged Zamasu becomes a thing. Trunks & Vegeta both fire a father-son galick gun, and it's ineffective. Goku fires a kamehameha wave all by himself, and somehow he's able to overpower Merged Zamasu. So now Goku > Vegeta & Trunks somehow?

But then at the end, we see Trunks pull a mega ass-pull and somehow he creates a genki dama despite not knowing the technique, and is literally able to finish what SSB Vegetto started. Not to say he's stronger than Vegetto, as Vegetto just didn't have enough time to get the job done, but does this now imply Trunks is a great deal stronger than SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta individually? Who the hell knows, the entire arc is a mess and good luck deciphering who exactly was the strongest, and how they logically got to the position of strongest.

Krillin wasn't able to fend off anything. Watch the episode again, perhaps? And if the fact that Krillin managed to hold off for a few seconds is reason for a ruckuss then "the joke" is on them. It's not the fault of others that some people can't see the forest for the trees, like I mentioned in the episode thread. It's a pity that good discussions are being superseded by power arguments based on irrelevant minutiae.

I don't really understand this argument, and I've already seen a few people say it. The episode with the forest did not somehow give him a power boost, I don't know why people think that. It was all about preparing him mentally for fighting again, and we obviously saw it worked with how confident Krillin was in his techniques and abilities. The point was that Krillin was able to hold off an SSB Kamehameha for quite a bit, which from a power perspective might not make the most sense. Sure you can say "oh but he was holding back" and blah blah blah, but even with holding back the form itself is like a million times stronger than Krillin. But I got that they were going for more of an emotional scene than paying attention to power levels. I still don't feel as if it was effective in that department either though, as up until that point we were shown Krillin's strategy was technique and tactics over raw power, which made a lot of sense and made him very unique. Then the climax is him willingly going head to head in a raw power struggle, eliminating everything that they just built Krillin up to be.

[TheMikado]

Krillin wasn't able to fend off anything. Watch the episode again, perhaps? And if the fact that Krillin managed to hold off for a few seconds is reason for a ruckuss then "the joke" is on them. It's not the fault of others that some people can't see the forest for the trees, like I mentioned in the episode thread. It's a pity that good discussions are being superseded by power arguments based on irrelevant minutiae.

I don't really understand this argument, and I've already seen a few people say it. The episode with the forest did not somehow give him a power boost, I don't know why people think that. It was all about preparing him mentally for fighting again, and we obviously saw it worked with how confident Krillin was in his techniques and abilities. The point was that Krillin was able to hold off an SSB Kamehameha for quite a bit, which from a power perspective might not make the most sense. Sure you can say "oh but he was holding back" and blah blah blah, but even with holding back the form itself is like a million times stronger than Krillin. But I got that they were going for more of an emotional scene than paying attention to power levels. I still don't feel as if it was effective in that department either though, as up until that point we were shown Krillin's strategy was technique and tactics over raw power, which made a lot of sense and made him very unique. Then the climax is him willingly going head to head in a raw power struggle, eliminating everything that they just built Krillin up to be.

And Thank You, I keep saying this but the scene was not a big deal and expected from Super, but in the context of what they were trying to portray about Krillin and his worth and value to the team having him beam struggle agains SSB Goku made little sense because that's not an area he should be competitive in at all and really adds no value to proving his worth when you think about it. It was great fan service though, it just really sucks if that was just for the sake of fan service.

[Luso Saiyan]

Yes, that is true. But why now that Super is displaying this, suddenly everyone is okay with it?

"Suddenly"? "Everyone"? Who are you referring to?

Why don't you hear anyone defending GT, even today, for those exact same reasons that Super is at fault of?

That it is a fault is something up to debate. Why are you implying that because people accept Super then they have to 'defend' GT? Personally, I don't care about GT. I don't give it any attention at all. But I do wonder about its relevancy to your original argument.

What makes it okay for Super, but not for GT? Is it because Toriyama is involved? Is it because the series isn't done yet, so people are more lenient about it? Is it that people are just happy to have a new Dragon Ball series after so long (in contrast to GT airing right after Z) that they'll ignore a lot of the problems?

Again with the baseless assumption that those that are fine with Super should be fine with GT as if they were one and the same.

I'll answer this and your next question in one package. So tell me, who is the strongest in the Future Trunks arc? Goku, Vegeta, or Trunks? Each of them seem to somehow do feats the others can't do, although the worst offender is clearly Trunks, who seems to be as strong, if not stronger, than SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta.

He isn't, as evident by the fact that he required their help and couldn't do anything as close to what they were able to do.

For example, first we see Goku & Vegeta getting slaughtered by Zamasu and Black. Trunks transforms and is somehow more powerful and can last against Zamasu & Black for waaaayy longer (a couple of minutes of SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta fighting and they were pretty much knocked out. Trunks somehow survives for an entire day against them in contrast)

Way longer? How did you measure that? You do know time can change for dramatic/story purposes, right? How long does a day last? A minute? Half? An entire episode? (that's a rethorical question, by the way). Trunks simply got powered up and managed to briefly hold his own. Briefly precisely because he was not in their league.

And before all of this, don't forget about the Trunks & Goku vs Zamasu & Black fight which, while incredibly visually appealing and fun to watch, also makes no sense. Trunks was getting slaughtered easily by regular Black, yet now he's able to fight SSR Black? Obviously he loses, but the fact that he can put up more of a fight against SSR Black than he can regular Black doesn't make sense.

What exactly doesn't make sense? I've already explained how pointless it is your (the audience's) perception of time unless it's specifically shown or stated. Also, "slaughtered easily"? When did that happen? Previously he was avoiding a fight as much as he could. And just like later on, he was able to fight Black. For how long? See my previous point.

Then they return to the past, Vegeta gets stronger from the time chamber, and we then see him proceed to beat Black. So Vegeta > Goku right?

No. That's the thing about that whole type of discussion and terminology. This isn't a video game. There are no stats, nor numbers. There's no Vegeta > Goku or vice versa. Both characters have their strenghts and weaknesses. Vegeta beat him through a realization he had, as he himself explained in the episode.

But then again, Merged Zamasu becomes a thing. Trunks & Vegeta both fire a father-son galick gun, and it's ineffective. Goku fires a kamehameha wave all by himself, and somehow he's able to overpower Merged Zamasu. So now Goku > Vegeta & Trunks somehow?

No. It doesn't work like that.

But then at the end, we see Trunks pull a mega ass-pull and somehow he creates a genki dama despite not knowing the technique, and is literally able to finish what SSB Vegetto started.

Wrong, again. Trunks doesn't create anything. He's as surprised to see the energy of every living being in the planet as we are. He simply accepted the energy that was being given to him and used it to destroy Zamasu. That's it. Vegetto started nothing but a good fight.

Not to say he's stronger than Vegetto, as Vegetto just didn't have enough time to get the job done, but does this now imply Trunks is a great deal stronger than SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta individually?

No. The world, through Trunks, beat Zamasu.

I don't really understand this argument, and I've already seen a few people say it. The episode with the forest did not somehow give him a power boost, I don't know why people think that.

Nobody is talking about the filler. Not seeing the forest for the trees is a figure of speech. It means being too focused on something irrelevant that prevents one from seeing the big picture.

[SansrivaaL]

I was never ok with power level inconsisencies, way back even in the copy Vegeta arc, when his base form rekt SSJ3 Gotenks, I just got a lil more vocal than usual now since we get shit like Goku forced to go SSJ to stop Krillin's ki wave and Krillin pushing back Goku's SSJB KHH.
I've said this in multiple threads but I'll say this here as well. I was ok with Krillin beating Gohan, because there was no problem with it (besides Gohan's supposed re awakened battle sense where he can feel the presence despite the lack of feeling ki just a few episodes ago) when it comes to power, Gohan didnt go SSJ, he got caught off guard as he didnt expect Krillin to be strong, he was cocky that Krillin wasnt tough at all, he lost because of that and the rules of no flying no killing and all that, be it a real fight with no rules, Krillin woulda got owned fast, nothing he can do can help him beat Gohan 1 on 1, my gripe is with Goku, he went SSJ just to stop a ki wave from Krillin, is Super telling us that Krillin is at a point where he can force Goku to go SSJ just to stop his ki wave? all from training with gym equipments? and the SSJB part I can handle as well, what I couldnt bare was Krillin pushing the damn wave back, and showing Goku to actually put effort in his blast, remove that and it woulda been ok, or another is, did Krillin suddenly got strong because Saitama's supposed power got in him where a 100 push ups and sit ups can push him that far?
The problem is, there was no reason with the scenario's that happened with Krillin, what was the point of Krillin forcing Goku to go SSJ and pushing his wave back? that was raw power, I thought the show wanted to tell us that Krillin can do well in a tournament where despite his lack of power, he can handle the situation strategically? they could have handled the scenario better.

True GT had its problems here and there, but I never had a problem with GT as surprising as this, I respect Super for what its trying to do, its trying to use a lot of characters which is a big plus, its bringing back strategy and tricks which is also good, they made it better when they had it become a rumble where team plays can be made, but when I see stuffs like SSJB V Krillin, thats crossing the line of enjoyment for me.

[Asura]

Okay so, in regards to Trunks fighting for a day, you state that we the audience have no idea how much time has passed, so we can't gauge how long Trunks was fighting for. But we have the time machine, which we know from Bulma needs at least a day to charge up for a round-trip. Did Trunks last the full day? Well, we see him fighting Zamasu & Black 2v1 and somehow doing better than Goku or Vegeta did against them 1v1, and right after he loses is when we see Goku & Vegeta return. So was it one continuous fight that lasted a day? Probably not. But it seems as if Trunks attacked multiple times during the day (at least twice, once when Goku & Vegeta left, the other when he tries to ambush them at their cabin)

You state that Trunks isn't stronger than Goku or Vegeta, as evident by the fact that he couldn't do anything as close to what they were able to do. That statement doesn't make any sense, because it's the complete opposite. We keep seeing Trunks do more than Goku & Vegeta can do, including literally defeating Merged Zamasu. (If you count that as a defeat that is) We see him become more powerful than Goku & Vegeta after transforming into SS Rage due to the simple fact that Goku & Vegeta got slaughtered in SSB, yet Trunks was somehow able to do more damage and leave more of an impact than any of them did the entire fight. Trunks is definitely not weaker or useless, he's the complete opposite.

Now you go on to say that Trunks was never getting "slaughtered easily" by base Black. Uh, hello? How do you think this arc started? Why do you think he went back to the past in the first place? Because he was getting his ass kicked and we saw from their first encounter Trunks didn't even stand close to a chance of winning. Even more ridiculous is the fact that Black is constantly getting stronger, even if you disregard his SS Rose form. So Trunks is somehow magically able to keep up with a much stronger, SS Rose Black. And by keep up I don't mean they were fighting evenly, Black and Zamasu were obviously winning that entire fight. The point is he put up way more of a challenge during that fight, despite his opponent getting massively stronger than the last time they fought, and Trunks...not getting stronger at all really.

Next, your excuse for how Vegeta beats Black seems incredibly flimsy and seems like you're really stretching to figure out a way to make excuses for inconsistencies (although Vegeta beating Black isn't an inconsistency, so I have no idea why you're trying to deflect from the real reason Vegeta beat Black, which is that he was much stronger. His "realization" about Black not knowing how to use a Saiyan's body doesn't somehow make Vegeta stronger because he figured out this revelation) We don't need stats or numbers to figure out who is stronger, we just need simple logic. And the logic is as follows:

1) Black beats Vegeta. Black > Vegeta
2) Black beats Goku. Black > Goku
3) Vegeta trains his ass off in the RoSaT
4) Goku learns the mafuba, but does absolutely nothing to make himself stronger
5) Vegeta beats Black.
6) Hence, if Vegeta beats Black but Black beats Goku, we can easily concur Vegeta > Goku (although with kaioken we see Goku is still stronger)

You don't even need power levels or any of that, you just need logic. Unfortunately, logic is often thrown out the window in the Future Trunks arc and the narrative contradicts itself over and over.

You could explain why Goku being able to overpower Merged Zamasu but Trunks & Vegeta together couldn't is logical, rather than just saying "No, you're wrong"

You fail to explain how Trunks created this Genki Dama, intentionally or not, just like everyone else. Simply put, it can't be explained. There is no explanation. It looks cool as hell and it gives Trunks the moment to shine in his own arc, but it is absolutely illogical and head-scratching as to how it occurred.

You said the world beat Zamasu, what world? There was literally like 100 people left on Earth. If you're telling me 100 civilians can somehow create a spirit bomb to take out someone leagues stronger than Kid Buu (which took the entire planet to beat, and even then it wasn't enough, Kid Buu was still stronger than the spirit bomb, but Goku was able to do him in once his energy was restored.)

And then lastly, on the Super/GT stuff, you ask why should people who accept Super have to defend GT? And that's really quite simple, It's just about not being a hypocrite. There are things that happen in GT that are criticized, yet something similar happening in Super has people shrugging their shoulders and saying they don't care. Obviously if you're not one of these people, this doesn't apply to you. Yet there's absolutely no doubt in my mind, that I can very easily say, that you hear much more of a defense for Super when an inconsistency happens, then a defense of GT when an inconsistency occurs.

I don't ever remember seeing people defend the fact that base Goku GT's power didn't make any sense and fluctuated wildly depending on the plot, and even seemed stronger than SSJ4 at times, yet something similar in Super is treated as no big deal. I'm not saying one solution is better than the other, I'm just simply pointing out the hypocrisy. If you defend Super for something that GT did similarly, you should also be defending GT. If you think otherwise, then you're just a hypocrite, there's not much else to say.

Although maybe the confusion here is you think I'm talking broadly and saying that if you defend Super for any reason, you should defend the ENTIRETY of GT. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying if you defend the specific inconsistency in Super, you should also be defending the similar specific inconsistency in GT.