Ever since Super's release, people are very quick to dismiss all criticisms about power level inconsistencies. Why?

[SaiyanGod117]

I was never ok with power level inconsisencies, way back even in the copy Vegeta arc, when his base form rekt SSJ3 Gotenks, I just got a lil more vocal than usual now since we get shit like Goku forced to go SSJ to stop Krillin's ki wave and Krillin pushing back Goku's SSJB KHH.
I've said this in multiple threads but I'll say this here as well. I was ok with Krillin beating Gohan, because there was no problem with it (besides Gohan's supposed re awakened battle sense where he can feel the presence despite the lack of feeling ki just a few episodes ago) when it comes to power, Gohan didnt go SSJ, he got caught off guard as he didnt expect Krillin to be strong, he was cocky that Krillin wasnt tough at all, he lost because of that and the rules of no flying no killing and all that, be it a real fight with no rules, Krillin woulda got owned fast, nothing he can do can help him beat Gohan 1 on 1, my gripe is with Goku, he went SSJ just to stop a ki wave from Krillin, is Super telling us that Krillin is at a point where he can force Goku to go SSJ just to stop his ki wave? all from training with gym equipments? and the SSJB part I can handle as well, what I couldnt bare was Krillin pushing the damn wave back, and showing Goku to actually put effort in his blast, remove that and it woulda been ok, or another is, did Krillin suddenly got strong because Saitama's supposed power got in him where a 100 push ups and sit ups can push him that far?
The problem is, there was no reason with the scenario's that happened with Krillin, what was the point of Krillin forcing Goku to go SSJ and pushing his wave back? that was raw power, I thought the show wanted to tell us that Krillin can do well in a tournament where despite his lack of power, he can handle the situation strategically? they could have handled the scenario better.

True GT had its problems here and there, but I never had a problem with GT as surprising as this, I respect Super for what its trying to do, its trying to use a lot of characters which is a big plus, its bringing back strategy and tricks which is also good, they made it better when they had it become a rumble where team plays can be made, but when I see stuffs like SSJB V Krillin, thats crossing the line of enjoyment for me.

Super is just full of poor storytelling and writing, even at Z's worst it wasn't this bad. I like the show, but I can't help, but call out these flaws, because there just practically every episode. It's like Toei is just literally going to Dragon Ball discussion forums and just getting there ideas from there.

[Luso Saiyan]

Okay so, in regards to Trunks fighting for a day, you state that we the audience have no idea how much time has passed, so we can't gauge how long Trunks was fighting for. But we have the time machine, which we know from Bulma needs at least a day to charge up for a round-trip. Did Trunks last the full day? Well, we see him fighting Zamasu & Black 2v1 and somehow doing better than Goku or Vegeta did against them 1v1, and right after he loses is when we see Goku & Vegeta return. So was it one continuous fight that lasted a day? Probably not. But it seems as if Trunks attacked multiple times during the day (at least twice, once when Goku & Vegeta left, the other when he tries to ambush them at their cabin)

We don't know.

You state that Trunks isn't stronger than Goku or Vegeta, as evident by the fact that he couldn't do anything as close to what they were able to do. That statement doesn't make any sense, because it's the complete opposite. We keep seeing Trunks do more than Goku & Vegeta can do, including literally defeating Merged Zamasu.

The world, through Trunks, defeated Zamasu. It wasn't him alone.

We see him become more powerful than Goku & Vegeta after transforming into SS Rage

No, we don't. We see him able to hold his own for a moment. Just like he did before.

yet Trunks was somehow able to do more damage and leave more of an impact than any of them did the entire fight.

What damage and impact? He did none of that. He was defeated thus showing (again) that he was not on their league.

Now you go on to say that Trunks was never getting "slaughtered easily" by base Black. Uh, hello? How do you think this arc started? Why do you think he went back to the past in the first place? Because he was getting his ass kicked and we saw from their first encounter Trunks didn't even stand close to a chance of winning.

Because he was defeated. Unable to beat him. Not the sensationalist terminology you used.

Even more ridiculous is the fact that Black is constantly getting stronger, even if you disregard his SS Rose form. So Trunks is somehow magically able to keep up with a much stronger, SS Rose Black. And by keep up I don't mean they were fighting evenly, Black and Zamasu were obviously winning that entire fight. The point is he put up way more of a challenge during that fight, despite his opponent getting massively stronger than the last time they fought, and Trunks...not getting stronger at all really.

You don't know that. And fights are done for entertainment purposes. The point is that we do know who is stronger and who is weaker due to the outcome, which is what you were arguing against.

Next, your excuse for how Vegeta beats Black seems incredibly flimsy and seems like you're really stretching to figure out a way to make excuses for inconsistencies

I'm the one stretching and making excuses? Please, if there's anyone doing that it's definitely not me as one can see.

6) Hence, if Vegeta beats Black but Black beats Goku, we can easily concur Vegeta > Goku

No, we can't reach that conclusion because your premises don't back it up. What you've written is your assumption. An assumption, not fact. And nobody is bound to your assumptions.

You could explain why Goku being able to overpower Merged Zamasu but Trunks & Vegeta together couldn't is logical, rather than just saying "No, you're wrong"

I don't need to explain anything. I just need to look at the fact that Goku is not Vegeta or Trunks, that they are different people in different states and that they aren't doing the same thing.

You fail to explain how Trunks created this Genki Dama, intentionally or not, just like everyone else.

I can't fail to explain something that didn't happen. Trunks didn't create anything. The living beings of the world were able to give their energy to him, and with that he was able to defeat Zamasu. That's it. He didn't ask for it. He didn't create it. They gave it to him.

Simply put, it can't be explained. There is no explanation.

To false claims and assumptions? No, there isn't.

You said the world beat Zamasu, what world? There was literally like 100 people left on Earth.

Were there? Did you count them?

If you're telling me 100 civilians can somehow create a spirit bomb to take out someone leagues stronger than Kid Buu

Zamasu is not Buu, strength is irrelevant. It wasn't used the same way either, therefore it's not comparable.

And then lastly, on the Super/GT stuff, you ask why should people who accept Super have to defend GT? And that's really quite simple, It's just about not being a hypocrite. There are things that happen in GT that are criticized, yet something similar happening in Super has people shrugging their shoulders and saying they don't care.

What? Where? When? How? Who? You don't get to make these baseless generalizations and then excuse yourself by saying that you don't keep track. If you don't keep track, you have nothing to back up your claim.

Yet there's absolutely no doubt in my mind, that I can very easily say, that you hear much more of a defense for Super when an inconsistency happens, then a defense of GT when an inconsistency occurs.

Because *gasp* maybe more people are interested in the former than the latter, wherever you see that happening (again, assuming it's an inconsistency to begin with). Perhaps some care about one and not the other. Ever thought of that?

I'm just saying if you defend the specific inconsistency in Super, you should also be defending the similar specific inconsistency in GT.

No, I shouldn't because I don't care for the latter.

[Kanassa]

You could explain why Goku being able to overpower Merged Zamasu but Trunks & Vegeta together couldn't is logical, rather than just saying "No, you're wrong"

I don't need to explain anything. I just need to look at the fact that Goku is not Vegeta or Trunks, that they are different people in different states and that they aren't doing the same thing.

Goku didn't overpower Merged Zamasu. Instead of pushing the blast back, the Kamehameha penetrated it (Though That brings up the question of how the hell that works). Trunks and Vegeta together however, did beat Zamasu in that beam struggle, it's just that Zamasu quickly recovered.

[Asura]

Sorry Luso, I don't think I can continue to argue with you because your mountain of excuses that don't even make sense (like you stating Vegeta being stronger than Black & Black being stronger than Goku is just my "assumption" despite the fact that I'm literally just going off of the fights in the series and who wins. If X beats Y, we can easily infer X is stronger than Y. Really basic stuff here). Then you're arguing over semantics, "he was defeated, not slaughtered" - I mean come on, you're not even arguing points here, you're just saying "nope, you're wrong, you don't know that, we all know nothing." and then stuff like saying Trunks didn't create the genki dama, it was just magically created, and there is no further explanation needed.

You're pretty much exactly the type of person I was talking about in the OP, someone who makes mountains upon mountains of illogical excuses for Super, while refusing to defend the same things that happen in Z and GT.

[Simere]

Goku didn't overpower Merged Zamasu. Instead of pushing the blast back, the Kamehameha penetrated it (Though That brings up the question of how the hell that works). Trunks and Vegeta together however, did beat Zamasu in that beam struggle, it's just that Zamasu quickly recovered.

Since when does a blast pushing through another blast not counting as winning a beam struggle?

[Asura]

Goku didn't overpower Merged Zamasu. Instead of pushing the blast back, the Kamehameha penetrated it (Though That brings up the question of how the hell that works). Trunks and Vegeta together however, did beat Zamasu in that beam struggle, it's just that Zamasu quickly recovered.

Since when does a blast pushing through another blast not counting as winning a beam struggle?

People will use all sorts of wordplay to try and jumble and change the meaning of things so they're not as they appear. It's kinda funny, but quite ridiculous. We've got "defeated" instead of "slaughtered", "penetrated" instead of "overpowered". It all means the exact same thing, but they'll try and convince you otherwise. Point out that Piccolo is green and they'll say "No he's not, he's just blue mixed with yellow"

Reminds me of Bill Clinton's famous line - "It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is".

[Luso Saiyan]

Sorry Luso, I don't think I can continue to argue with you because your mountain of excuses that don't even make sense

If you don't have arguments, just say so.

like you stating Vegeta being stronger than Black & Black being stronger than Goku is just my "assumption"

No, I never said that's an assumption. I'm saying the conclusion you've reached is an assumption.

Then you're arguing over semantics,

In this case, semantics matter. That's why you chose to make a pointless exaggeration instead of something closer to what actually happened.

and then stuff like saying Trunks didn't create the genki dama,

Because it's what happened. It's made explicit in the episode itself. It's a fact, not up to debate. You can continue to come up with strawmen and arguing over baseless assumptions and non sequitur, but the facts don't change.

You're pretty much exactly the type of person I was talking about in the OP, someone who makes mountains upon mountains of illogical excuses for Super, while refusing to defend the same things that happen in Z and GT.

I don't need to defend anything, let alone refuse to defend something that is not relevant to what's being discussed. And to call valid arguments "mountains of illogical excuses" only shows your inability to have a proper discussion. Rant away. I'm not wasting any more of my time talking to a brick wall.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

No, we don't. We see him able to hold his own for a moment. Just like he did before.

We see him become more powerful than Goku & Vegeta after transforming into SS Rage

Yeah this is a pretty big misconception because Trunks only ever used Ikari when Goku and Vegeta were down for the count or when they weren't here for example the episode it debuted Vegeta was injured and Goku was completely floored, then he used it when they went back in the past and then again in #65 after Vegeta and Goku exhausted themselves trying to battle Merged Zamasu, then in #66 Trunks came in when Vegeta and Goku used too much energy and defused. I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that Trunks became more powerful than Goku and Vegeta.

[Asura]

I'm not out of arguments, the problem is that you either dodge the argument or come up with something based on semantics to the point where I don't even know how to respond to you.

I mean yet another example, you just said you didn't say me saying "Vegeta > Black > Goku" was an assumption, but rather that my conclusion was an assumption. Except for the fact that "Vegeta > Black > Goku" WAS my conclusion, so how am I supposed to respond to you when you say something like that?

It literally feels like I'm arguing an English major or someone who is a master at wordplay because every response you have given me has been something along the logical lines of "7 + 3 doesn't equal ten, but 8 + 2 does".

You ignore my arguments and instead result to attacking semantics. Trunks not even being able to scratch Black, forcing him to retreat badly injured to the past is what I call a slaughter, you call it a defeat. Literally what is the difference and how does it even matter in this context? The original question was "How did Trunks fare better against SSJ Rose (before Ikari) than he did when he originally fought Black, who was much weaker at that time yet slaughtered Trunks." Arguing over "slaughtered" vs "defeated" does nothing to answer the question, and it's something I can't even argue over because it has nothing to do with what I asked you.

If Trunks didn't create the Genki Dama, who did? I already asked you how it's creation was even logically possible and you never answered me, and just gave me more semantics ("It wasn't Trunks that made it, it was the energy of the people of the world" etc...) that doesn't answer the question. Again, I can't argue without literally just repeating myself since the question went unanswered in favor of arguing semantics. Similarly we could argue was Goku's spirit bomb he used against Buu made by him or the people of Earth? But none of that matters because again, my question was not who, but how?

And then finally, as to the main question of this thread, all you can say is "I don't have to defend that." - No explanation to why the hypocrisy is okay, or even why it might not be hypocrisy in your view, all you have to say is that you don't have to defend anything. Well that's great but how am I supposed to have an argument or as you put it, a logical discussion when your answer to my main question of the thread essentially boils down to "No. Next question."?

Point is, it's quite clear you're a master at word play and I'm sure we could even argue back and forth over what the definition of "is" is, but it's still not answering my question, and not something I want to spend my time arguing over

No, we don't. We see him able to hold his own for a moment. Just like he did before.

We see him become more powerful than Goku & Vegeta after transforming into SS Rage

Yeah this is a pretty big misconception because Trunks only ever used Ikari when Goku and Vegeta were down for the count or when they weren't here for example the episode it debuted Vegeta was injured and Goku was completely floored, then he used it when they went back in the past and then again in #65 after Vegeta and Goku exhausted themselves trying to battle Merged Zamasu, then in #66 Trunks came in when Vegeta and Goku used too much energy and defused. I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that Trunks became more powerful than Goku and Vegeta.

We can make the assumption that Trunks is stronger based off of what the show shows us. Do I believe they were purposefully trying to make it look like Trunks was stronger? No, but that's the way it came out appearing. Like you said, we only see it when Vegeta & Goku or down. The word you used for Goku was quite accurate, he was floored as was Vegeta. We then see Trunks transform and seem to put up more of a fight than Vegeta and Goku just did. The question is, how? At the time people thought "Oh okay, well that will be explained by the god ki we see in this new form, so surely this power must have somehow came from Trunks unlocking some sort of Super Saiyan God hybrid form right?" except well, the series never did explain it, or even bothered to give the form a name, which just lead further to the question of what the hell is Trunks, and how is he this powerful all of a sudden where it appears as if he's at SSB level, if perhaps at times seeming even higher?

[julianix]

The problem started when everyone had the power to destroy a planet so easily. I mean King Piccolo had enough power to do a nuclear type of explosion. They should of took it a bit slower. Same thing with flying that should of been a bit slower as well. Remember it was called a levitation technique now everyone just does it..

Super in a way has no where else to go with their power. The problem was they went at it the wrong way. Instead of bringing gods, angels and all kinds of ridiculous statements about their power. What they should of done was work with ssj3 a little longer and have a much slower progression. Em

[VegettoEX]

Super in a way has no where else to go with their power. The problem was they went at it the wrong way. Instead of bringing gods, angels and all kinds of ridiculous statements about their power. What they should of done was work with ssj3 a little longer and have a much slower progression. Em

There are no new toys to sell if you keep it at Super Saiyan 3 (especially with how much Heroes don't give a fuuuuuuuuuuck about what everyone else is doing), and you're going to lose the younger audience if you stagnate with a slower progression.

Remember, this series isn't for us: it's for the kids, and if we happen to like it as well, that's cool.

[kayojin]

things about Super to criticize:
- some derivative character designs (toyotaro-related, it seems. toriyama's new characters like beerus, whis, monaka, jaco, etc are all very cool and unique)
- shoddy animation quality (improving as the series unfolds)
- character regression/stagnation

we're really gonna get hung up on power level management in moments being loose with it has helped the plot in a positive way? the only egregious errors IMO were future trunks' SSJ Rage and genki dama sword

[TheMikado]

The problem started when everyone had the power to destroy a planet so easily. I mean King Piccolo had enough power to do a nuclear type of explosion. They should of took it a bit slower. Same thing with flying that should of been a bit slower as well. Remember it was called a levitation technique now everyone just does it..

Super in a way has no where else to go with their power. The problem was they went at it the wrong way. Instead of bringing gods, angels and all kinds of ridiculous statements about their power. What they should of done was work with ssj3 a little longer and have a much slower progression. Em

Exactly, you hit the nail right on the head on what we are in this mess. Den of Geek has been reviewing the Dub on Toonami and its review is basically spot on, they review each episode so its great.

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/dragon-b ... saiyan-god

"Do you think you can go beyond the Power of a God?"

"Exactly. Watch me go!"

For a show that has gone on for as long as Dragon Ball has, and one that delights in introducing the Next Big Strong Super-Threat as soon as the previous one has been vanquished, there’s a natural roadblock: How much stronger can people keep getting? Goku and company are now at a stage in their lives where they’re not only fighting gods, but becoming them. While increasingly strong characters usually just translate to fancy new transformations and overwhelming displays of energy, this episode of Dragon Ball Super begins to explore the consequences of what can happen when two people as strong as Goku and Beerus go head-to-head. The startling answer that the episode posits is that basically, the universe can’t handle this mess.

Yes, after a few episodes of Goku getting the hang of his new skills and Beerus biding his time, now that these two are allegedly at full-strength, the collective force of their battle is actually tearing the universe apart. Suddenly “who’s the strongest?” is less pressing of a matter than “Let’s keep the universe from breaking.” As these two trade blows, planets and solar systems are casually swallowed up into nothingness or eliminated in drastic bursts of energy. All of these planets could be Earth-like bodies that house heroes of their own, but they’re mindlessly deleted in the fallout of this match (not to mention Earth itself experiencing significant shockwaves). Goku and Beerus are operating at such an elevated fighting level that their energy is taking on the form of dragons and warring against each other in outer space. When your aura essentially becomes a dragon that’s capable of giving Shenron a run for his money, you know that you’re fighting in pretty peak condition.

Ever the trickster, Beerus seems to be well aware of the destruction that’s being caused by the clash of his and Goku’s power. The fact that he’s so cavalier about all of this hints at the mindset that Beerus is in during this stage of the battle. He’s gotten so obsessed with defeating Goku and ending this frustrating planet that he doesn’t even care if there is tremendous collateral damage that accompanies it, as long as he still proves that he’s number one. That being said, in spite of the insurmountable stakes in place here, it's a little jarring to see just how casual Goku and Beerus are through all of this.

But yes, the point the article is making is that we are casually playing as such a vast level of power that things feel completely out of place now when this is your starting and reference point. We've been lead to believe everything that follows after this battle is several orders of magnitudes beyond even this fight. There is literally no where else to go which would make it believable, even for children.

And yet, here we are... debating whether Cabba has already surpassed this level of power when he hasn't even become a SSJ until some random guy from a whole other universe at a tournament threatens Cabba's family who that person has never met or even know... Yes its hate to take in no matter what age you are.. Unless you're two and enjoy the flashing lights and pretty colors.

[dbgtFO]

yet Trunks was somehow able to do more damage and leave more of an impact than any of them did the entire fight.

What damage and impact? He did none of that. He was defeated thus showing (again) that he was not on their league.

You don't know that. And fights are done for entertainment purposes. The point is that we do know who is stronger and who is weaker due to the outcome, which is what you were arguing against.

6) Hence, if Vegeta beats Black but Black beats Goku, we can easily concur Vegeta > Goku

No, we can't reach that conclusion because your premises don't back it up. What you've written is your assumption. An assumption, not fact. And nobody is bound to your assumptions.

So we can determine who is stronger than who based on the outcome, but we can't determine Vegeta is stronger than Goku, even though the outcome of Goku vs Black was a win for Black(thus Goku < Black) as opposed to Vegeta beating Black in their rematch (thus Black < Vegeta and hence Goku < Vegeta too).

Explain this nonsense or let me guess, you don't have to explain that either

[Miracles]

The problem started when everyone had the power to destroy a planet so easily. I mean King Piccolo had enough power to do a nuclear type of explosion. They should of took it a bit slower. Same thing with flying that should of been a bit slower as well. Remember it was called a levitation technique now everyone just does it..

Super in a way has no where else to go with their power. The problem was they went at it the wrong way. Instead of bringing gods, angels and all kinds of ridiculous statements about their power. What they should of done was work with ssj3 a little longer and have a much slower progression. Em

Dang, that's boring. I prefer how Toriyama kept the power growth fast paced.
It is a story based on fighting and characters constantly growing beyond imagination is what made Dragonball a hit!

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The problem started when everyone had the power to destroy a planet so easily. I mean King Piccolo had enough power to do a nuclear type of explosion. They should of took it a bit slower. Same thing with flying that should of been a bit slower as well. Remember it was called a levitation technique now everyone just does it..

Super in a way has no where else to go with their power. The problem was they went at it the wrong way. Instead of bringing gods, angels and all kinds of ridiculous statements about their power. What they should of done was work with ssj3 a little longer and have a much slower progression. Em

Dang, that's boring. I prefer how Toriyama kept the power growth fast paced.
It is a story based on fighting and characters constantly growing beyond imagination is what made Dragonball a hit!

I don't think there's necessarily a contradiction between the two. The problem is that at a certain point (which actually came very quickly, looking back at it), canonical strength vastly outgrew the ability to convey power visually. Despite new animation techniques, it has still been a problem for Super. This is largely what results in so many fans becoming dissatisfied with the power scale, I think. We're at a point in this mad exponential growth that the depth of power can't be accurately visually portrayed anymore. That's a problem that wouldn't exist if Toriyama had taken a slower, more linear approach to canonical escalation.

[Lord Frieza]

Or, and hear me out on this one, maybe your to hung up on power level inconsistencies, are very quick to make criticisms and get bent out of shape when some people dont agree. Just saying sometimes the problem is not everyone else its you and your little circle. But to be fair there are Super fans who dismiss stuff without a word...or there must be as I dont know any.

Right so let me see. I cannot think of any power level issues from the Beerus to Champa arc that are not explained in story. I dont count Piccolo v Frost as Frost was weakened by his battle with Goku.

Trunks arc - Trunk's power dose fly about a but however the things people seem to grip about are, him blocking Black's attack to protect Goku and his fights with Zamasu. I am ignoring Super Saiyan Rage in terms of power inconsistency as its a new form, a poorly introduced one but a new form nun the less. Well for the blocking of Black's attack part well yeah a bit unrealistic but one moment is a whole fight is a little much to get bent out of shape over. As for Zamasu, Goku pointed out that Zamasu's immortality had made him careless in battle. Also I'm not counting Trunks vs Fused Zamasu either because A) he was weakened by his fight with Vegito and his body is unstable and B) the Genki Sword is a ass pull attack not a BS power up.

Then we get to Fused Zamasu himself. Well as we later learn, in the next episode from the event that people have gotten pissy about, Zamasu's fused body is very unstable and not as perfect as he thinks it is. As a result it really is not hard to chalk up his lose in a beam struggle with Goku to be nothing more then his own unstable body and power.

And then we get to whats this thread is really about, Episode 84. Which all stems from the brief moment were Krillin pushed back SSB Goku's attack. Yes its not consistent but this is the one real event you've got and its in a fight between long time friends. Getting bent out of shape over it is rather petty.

So by my count you've got two legitimate moments of power scaling issues and both are really not that big of a deal. Any of the other's I can provide a legitimate, in universe reason for.

Now I'm trying to not mud sling here as I love this franchise as a whole but for the people who want to say GT is better then Super in this reguard well...

Goku's fights with both Oceanus and Rage Shenron are both pretty big moments of inconsistency, why dose Nouva get his ass kicked by Eis despite being far more powerful then him and not really liking him all that much? (You can kick your brothers ass without killing him), why dosen't Goku use SS againt the Sigma Force Cannon and end the fight quicker?, Why not go SS2 against Rildo? and since we are being petty here why do Pan and Trunk's attacks even move Baby's head when there is a gigantic difference in power between them?

No I'm not asking for explanations for these, I don't want or need them, this is just to show GT has its fair share of moments to and it dose not devalue it I'n my eyes.

[Luso Saiyan]

So we can determine who is stronger than who based on the outcome, but we can't determine Vegeta is stronger than Goku, even though the outcome of Goku vs Black was a win for Black(thus Goku < Black) as opposed to Vegeta beating Black in their rematch (thus Black < Vegeta and hence Goku < Vegeta too).

Rock beats scissors.

Scissors beats paper.

Following your flawed logic, rock beats paper.

Explain this nonsense or let me guess, you don't have to explain that either

Nonsense indeed, but not from me.

[Simere]

Then they return to the past, Vegeta gets stronger from the time chamber, and we then see him proceed to beat Black. So Vegeta > Goku right?

No. That's the thing about that whole type of discussion and terminology. This isn't a video game. There are no stats, nor numbers. There's no Vegeta > Goku or vice versa. Both characters have their strenghts and weaknesses. Vegeta beat him through a realization he had, as he himself explained in the episode.

Are you confusing the anime with the manga? What realization?

[Speedster]

I think we all recognise that power scaling in Super is complete and utter nonsense and it is literally whatever the plot demands without any qualms about maintaining consistency. But what’s the point of keep beating a dead horse? Dragonball is not only about power scaling after all. Personally, I watch it and enjoy it for its positives and I try to avoid seriously thinking about power scaling anymore. I just tell myself “they apply video game logic now where anybody can win or lose against anyone”.

Also, in all fairness to Super, power scaling was very flawed even in the original manga. The people who bash Super seem to forget that and act as if the original manga was a literary masterpiece and they are ready to excuse anything by rolling out their defensive headcanons. For Super though they go straight to calling bullshit. Those who defend Super, don't defend Super per se, they are just reacting to the hypocrisy and the double standard that the two series are held.