"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

When people are going to realize the anime is not an adaptation of Toyotaro's manga? It's not even the main product

I'm saying if Toriyama didn't give him much of a personality and it was Toei who wrote him as a villain then it'll be a problem if Toriyama decides he's not that bad cause the anime already established him as a bad guy.

[Rhuagh]

Keep in mind that while he wasn't portrayed as downright evil, Toyotaro's Frost didn't have the heroic backstory either. Goku also said something to the effect of "He's not so different from Freeza". I think we should assume that he is Freeza 2.0 as the default until we see more of him.

Piccolo said he felt no evil in Frost when they first met, though he did say after Vegeta beat him that he may start becoming more like Freeza. It's up to the authors really. I would very much like him not to go that path, instead remaining good, even if a bit arrogant and prideful.

In terms of power potential, if he is anything like Freeza he could hypothetically be one of the most powerful mortals in all universes.

[mfwlegend3]

Viz has officially caught up.

Chapter 22 is out.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters ... ball-super

[OLKv3]

Viz has officially caught up.

Chapter 22 is out.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters ... ball-super

Damn this feels so weird that we're all caught up
No more relying on Mangastream

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's my first time reading a translation of that chapter. I almost enjoyed it, but it was a bit too flawed. The panel composition is actually worse than I remembered, nothing particularly interesting happened in the Black x Vegeta fight. The Mafuba sequence was executed hastily and poorly. Even the short spout between Black and Zamasu, which is a dynamic I really would have liked to have seen explored, had no precedent and no resolution. Vegeta's newfound technique is interesting in theory, but the chapter itself doesn't set it up well or give even a vague explanation as to how he overcame the weaknesses. The whole thing seems rushed and poorly thought out, that may be because he was working on the new arc while this chapter was in production, so I'll give it a pass. I basically feel the same way about this chapter that I do about Episode 64, it didn't do anything offensively bad, but it didn't handle anything particularly well either.

[OLKv3]

That's my first time reading a translation of that chapter. I almost enjoyed it, but it was a bit too flawed. The panel composition is actually worse than I remembered, nothing particularly interesting happened in the Black x Vegeta fight. The Mafuba sequence was executed hastily and poorly. Even the short spout between Black and Zamasu, which is a dynamic I really would have liked to have seen explored, had no precedent and no resolution. Vegeta's newfound technique is interesting in theory, but the chapter itself doesn't set it up well or give even a vague explanation as to how he overcame the weaknesses. The whole thing seems rushed and poorly thought out, that may be because he was working on the new arc while this chapter was in production, so I'll give it a pass. I basically feel the same way about this chapter that I do about Episode 64, it didn't do anything offensively bad, but it didn't handle anything particularly well either.

Neither Toei or Toyo could salvage this sequence to make it exciting. Toei threw a bunch of fluff in it to make the villains still look good even in defeat, but created nonsensical plot devices like Zamasu's 5 minute trip to Trunks' bunker, Trunks learning Mafuba in seconds, Black with his scythes, and them looking too strong so the fusion looked pointless

Toyo tries to make the Vegeta powerup seem new and amazing with a convoluted description of why SSG is great, at the cost of the villains looking pathetic, Goku turning into an exposition machine and Trunks with that awful awful line, though I did like Goku getting inside Zamasu's head. They had to drag it out to a full episode/full chapter and the source material just isn't enough to be one imo.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's my first time reading a translation of that chapter. I almost enjoyed it, but it was a bit too flawed. The panel composition is actually worse than I remembered, nothing particularly interesting happened in the Black x Vegeta fight. The Mafuba sequence was executed hastily and poorly. Even the short spout between Black and Zamasu, which is a dynamic I really would have liked to have seen explored, had no precedent and no resolution. Vegeta's newfound technique is interesting in theory, but the chapter itself doesn't set it up well or give even a vague explanation as to how he overcame the weaknesses. The whole thing seems rushed and poorly thought out, that may be because he was working on the new arc while this chapter was in production, so I'll give it a pass. I basically feel the same way about this chapter that I do about Episode 64, it didn't do anything offensively bad, but it didn't handle anything particularly well either.

Neither Toei or Toyo could salvage this sequence to make it exciting. Toei threw a bunch of fluff in it to make the villains still look good even in defeat, but created nonsensical plot devices like Zamasu's 5 minute trip to Trunks' bunker, Trunks learning Mafuba in seconds, Black with his scythes, and them looking too strong so the fusion looked pointless

Toyo tries to make the Vegeta powerup seem new and amazing with a convoluted description of why SSG is great, at the cost of the villains looking pathetic, Goku turning into an exposition machine and Trunks with that awful awful line, though I did like Goku getting inside Zamasu's head. They had to drag it out to a full episode/full chapter and the source material just isn't enough to be one imo.

The anime probably couldn't have made it work, their scheduling problems around that time are painfully obvious in hindsight. Toyotaro totally could have nailed this, though. I believe his flaw was putting too much emphasis on Vegeta both here and in earlier chapters, to the point where nothing was able to be properly fleshed out here, including Vegeta's sequence itself. This mistake is all on Toyotaro.

[Kanassa]

I don't understand why the "Gogeta vs Vegetto" discussion has so much traction. They are basically the same. I understand preferring one or the other, still to few differences to really matter, the core is the same.

Not really. Ignoring GT, Gogeta is more serious than Vegetto and actually get sh** done.

Ignoring GT, he shows up for 1 minute in a movie. That's hardly enough to judge his personality. We have no idea what he's like, but since he's still a Goku/Vegeta mix, he's likely the same.

Also, in the Buu fight, wasn't his attitude a facade put on to trick Buu into absorbing him?

[OLKv3]

Not really. Ignoring GT, Gogeta is more serious than Vegetto and actually get sh** done.

Ignoring GT, he shows up for 1 minute in a movie. That's hardly enough to judge his personality. We have no idea what he's like, but since he's still a Goku/Vegeta mix, he's likely the same.

Also, in the Buu fight, wasn't his attitude a facade put on to trick Buu into absorbing him?

Yep. People constantly forget that

[ekrolo2]

Vegeta's technique is cool but it doesn't work with the God forms. Unlike regular SS and the Grade states where there are clear physical and energy related difference's for something like this to work, SSGod and Blue have no such difference's​ besides the former being all around inferior to the latter minus the stamina drop.

If they setup something like Goku & Vegeta being faster in God thanks to their slimmer physiques this idea of using God to run away then Blue for attacking or tanking hits would work a lot better.

It definitely confirms that Toyotaro is making manga!Blue his version of Blue KK which is something I've suspected since the massive stamina drain got introduced.

[Zephyr]

Something's not right here...

[Doctor.]

I still don't get how the hell Vegeta's strategy is working if Black was pounding SSB Vegeta into the dirt even before going Rosé. I know Vegeta is getting the upperhand due to the quick burst in speed and power, but that quick burst shouldn't matter in the slightest, considering how Black should be massively above him.

And further, if the two God forms are so close in power that Vegeta is comfortable using SSG against Black, and yet Blue has such massive stamina drain when transforming and even when active, then why the fuck is Blue even useful? Rosé doesn't seem to have the same issues, Black is using it just fine.

[FortuneSSJ]

Something's not right here...
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Besides Vegeta calling him Goku instead of Kakarrot, they are also using the redundant term "senzu bean" instead of just senzu.
I've been not following their DBS translation, but I heard it's been really good. What happened?!

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Not really. Ignoring GT, Gogeta is more serious than Vegetto and actually get sh** done.

Ignoring GT, he shows up for 1 minute in a movie. That's hardly enough to judge his personality. We have no idea what he's like, but since he's still a Goku/Vegeta mix, he's likely the same.

Also, in the Buu fight, wasn't his attitude a facade put on to trick Buu into absorbing him?

It's arguable, honestly. I'd say Vegetto was playing an exaggerated version of himself, but he's still being himself.

[VegettoEX]

I've been not following their DBS translation, but I heard it's been really good. What happened?!

In general, it's fine. I'd certainly rank it ahead of their translation of the original manga. A lot of these are arguable / translator's choice kinds of things rather than straight-up "errors".

[batistabus]

Keep in mind that while he wasn't portrayed as downright evil, Toyotaro's Frost didn't have the heroic backstory either. Goku also said something to the effect of "He's not so different from Freeza". I think we should assume that he is Freeza 2.0 as the default until we see more of him.

But the heroic front was just a means of manipulation, it's not like he had a good side and a bad. They thought he was completely different from Freeza at first because of how polite he was, but then they found out he wasn't a total opposite. Anyway, you might be right.

Toyo tries to make the Vegeta powerup seem new and amazing with a convoluted description of why SSG is great, at the cost of the villains looking pathetic, Goku turning into an exposition machine

Have you read the original manga?

[Kanassa]

Have you read the original manga?

Meh, usually the pathetic villain card is saved for the climax when we no longer need to take them that seriously for the moment and Goku/Vegeta/Gohan is going to win.

[batistabus]

Have you read the original manga?

Meh, usually the pathetic villain card is saved for the climax when we no longer need to take them that seriously for the moment and Goku/Vegeta/Gohan is going to win.

Take Boo or Cell, for example. Just like here, it's a constant shift between -villain is strong, heroes look pathetic- , -heroes become stronger, villain looks pathetic- , -villain becomes stronger, heroes look pathetic- , etc.

[Kanassa]

Have you read the original manga?

Meh, usually the pathetic villain card is saved for the climax when we no longer need to take them that seriously for the moment and Goku/Vegeta/Gohan is going to win.

Take Boo or Cell, for example. Just like here, it's a constant shift between -villain is strong, heroes look pathetic- , -heroes become stronger, villain looks pathetic- , -villain becomes stronger, heroes look pathetic- , etc.

It's not really a constant shift. Cell was an exception used to build up shock value and drama upon his return, while Buu was always treated as a serious threat even in the beginning.

[Neon Z]

I still don't get how the hell Vegeta's strategy is working if Black was pounding SSB Vegeta into the dirt even before going Rosé. I know Vegeta is getting the upperhand due to the quick burst in speed and power, but that quick burst shouldn't matter in the slightest, considering how Black should be massively above him.

And further, if the two God forms are so close in power that Vegeta is comfortable using SSG against Black, and yet Blue has such massive stamina drain when transforming and even when active, then why the fuck is Blue even useful? Rosé doesn't seem to have the same issues, Black is using it just fine.

I think the idea is that even by default, SSJB was weakened due to the stamina drain with transformation. So, by cutting that and the stamina drain from keeping the form on, Vegeta not only avoids losing power, he's also instantly powered up compared to before. Kind of like how the permanent SSJ transformation back in the Cell Games also effectively raised Goku's power by a lot even though it was just cutting the ki drain of the form.