Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Piccolo is the KING of BS strength gains. He trains for a few months by himself then beats up Gohan and he's almost as strong as King Kai & Nappa. He does nothing for a week and jumps from 3000 to Captain Ginyu level, at least. Then he fights with Goku and Gohan for 3 years and becomes, literally, hundreds of times stronger.

You could say this is a good basis for him to get stronger but here's the thing: Piccolo stopped getting any relevant power ups for literally a decade. Nothing he did made a difference anymore, why should it randomly start to now besides the plot needing it.

Maybe Piccolo has actually been getting bullshit gains all this time and he was like Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto level in the F arc, it was just overshadowed by everyone else's bullshitier gains

Piccolo gains in training are so inconsistent. He makes monstrous jumps through mundane training. yet when it come to the ROSAT, he hits a glass ceiling. You'd think with how strong he got without special training that the ROSAT leading up to the Cell Games would bring the absolute best out of him. But nope. He's still much weaker than the Cell and the Super Saiyans.

Piccolo got a monstrous increase via the ROSAT, it was just overshadowed by everyone else's.

Piccolo was weaker than imperfect Cell after absorptions. That same Cell was on-par with #16, who was much weaker than Semi-Perfect Cell, who powered-up twice and couldn't even touch Grade 2 Vegeta. Grade 2 Vegeta couldn't touch Perfect Cell, who, at suppressed power, admitted he was weaker than Grade 3 Trunks. Then, when Goku comes out of the ROSAT, 50% of his power is enough to blow Vegeta and Trunks away (and remember they didn't know whether Goku was at 50% or not, as far as they knew, he was at full power). Then, Piccolo goes into the ROSAT, with the intention of becoming at least as strong as the power he saw Goku output, or otherwise he'd have no chance against Cell. Goku even admits that Piccolo got a lot stronger.

Post-ROSAT Piccolo
50% MSS Goku
Grade 3 Trunks
Suppressed Perfect Cell
Grade 2 Vegeta
Full Power Semi-Perfect Cell
Suppressed Semi-Perfect Cell
Android #16 - Imperfect Cell
Pre-ROSAT Piccolo

[The gr]

I've made my list for Z+Super battle powers. It starts off at the millions, because that's what people really care about, the big numbers.

[spoiler]Freeza arc:

Goku: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Freeza: 120

Android arc:

Mecha Freeza: 140
-- Suppressed: 70

King Cold: 70

Trunks: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Goku: 3.7
-- Super Saiyan: 185

-- 3 years later --

Goku: 3.8
-- Super Saiyan: 190
-- post-absorptions: 120

Vegeta: 5
-- Super Saiyan: 250

Artificial Human #19: 75
-- post-absorptions: 150

Artificial Human #20: 80

Piccolo: 100

Artificial Human #18: 370
Artificial Human #17: 375

-- Cell stuff --

Piccolo: 300
-- no weights: 375

Cell: 285
-- post-absorptions: 465

Artificial Human #16: 465

Semi-Perfect Cell: 650

Vegeta: 12
-- Super Saiyan: 600
-- Grade 2 (x70): 840

Trunks: 11.9
-- Super Saiyan: 595
-- Grade 2: 833
-- Grade 3 (x100): 1,190

Perfect Cell: 1,000

-- Cell Games --

Piccolo: 1,650

Trunks: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Vegeta: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Cell Jr.: 1,700

Goku: 25
-- Mastered Super Saiyan (x100): 2,500

Gohan: 35
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 3,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 7,000

Perfect Cell: 2,500
-- vs Gohan: 3,600
-- full power: 4,000
-- Super Perfect Cell: 6,800

Boo arc:

Piccolo: 1,750
Kaioshin: 2,000

Gohan: 25
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 5,000

Dabra: 5,250

Goten: 20
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,000

Trunks: 22
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,200

Vegeta: 33
-- post Majin: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000

Goku: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 32,000

Fat Boo: 28,000
-- Grey Boo: 16,800
-- Mr. Boo: 11,200

-- Z-Sword stuff --

Gohan: 42
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,200
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,400
-- ultimate: 175,000

Gotenks: 75
-- post-training: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 30,000 (in order to make the power levels a bit more minimalist, let's just assume that Goku thought the kids would be able to go SS2 to face Boo; it makes it so that the latter part of the Boo arc, and Super as a consequence, has less bloated numbers)
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Super Boo: 105,000
-- Gotenks Boo: 225,000
-- Gohan Boo: 280,000

Vegetto: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan: 400,000

Kid Boo: 35,000

Battle of Gods:

Goku: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 36,000
-- Super Saiyan God: 6,000,000

Vegeta: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- enraged: 900,000

Beerus: 100,000,000
Whis: 300,000,000

Resurrection 'F':

Gohan: 42
-- Super Saiyan: 4,200

Piccolo: 1,900

Tagoma: 2,500
Ginyu: 2,900

Goku, Saiyan beyond God: 170,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,500,000

Vegeta, Saiyan beyond God: 171,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,550,000

Freeza: 175,000
-- Golden Freeza: 9,500,000

Champa arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- Kaioken x2: 17,500,000
-- x10: 87,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Piccolo: 2,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200

Botamo: 45

Frost: 40
-- second form: 50
-- final form: 2,300

Cabba: 50
-- Super Saiyan: 2,500

Hit: 8,250,000
-- improvement: 17,500,000

Champa: 99,000,000

Copy Vegeta arc:

Goku, Saiyan Beyond God: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Copy-Vegeta: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Gotenks: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Black arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 40,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- enraged: 12,500,000
-- post-Mafuba: 18,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- post-training: 18,500,000

Trunks: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan Rage: 12,000,000

Zamasu: 8,000

Black: 20,000
-- post-boost: 200,000
-- Super Saiyan Rosé: 10,000,000
-- post-boost: 13,500,000
-- post-scythe: 20,00,000

Merged Zamasu: 50,000,000
-- corrupted: 75,000,000
-- giant: 25,000,000

Vegetto, Saiyan Beyond God: 1,600,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 80,000,000

Spirit Sword: 40,000,000

Universal Survival arc:

Gohan: 80
-- M. Super Saiyan: 8,000

Goku: 105
-- M. Super Saiyan: 10,500
-- Saiyan beyond God: 370,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 18,500,000
-- Kaioken x2: 37,000,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200
-- Slim Boo: 385,000

Basil: 4,000
-- powered-up: 9,500

Lavenda: 6,500

Bergamo: 8,000
-- bullshit: 15,000,000

Toppo: 16,500,000

Kuririn: 65
Artificial Human #18: 370

Artificial Human #17, based on my astute powers of NEP guessing: 16,500,000[/spoiler]

Could have made a more minimalist list if I wanted to, but eh, I guess this is good enough.

Bergamo bs Power , and how is he weak to a drugged Basil through Goku stated in the preview he is the strongest​, or unless your going that was his surpressed state, and zamas should be a bit stronger than that, how is he weak to buu and basil

what a great list is this

[Doctor.]

Bergamo bs Power , and how is he weak to a drugged Basil through Goku stated in the preview he is the strongest​, or unless your going that was his surpressed state, and zamas should be a bit stronger than that,

what a great list is this

Bergamo is the strongest in their base forms, I don't think he's stronger than drugged Basil before absorbing Goku's power considering he thought that Gohan was a good opponent to fight. That's Present Zamasu's power, future Zamasu's is inconsistent as fuck and I can't be arsed to put a number to it

[The gr]

Bergamo bs Power , and how is he weak to a drugged Basil through Goku stated in the preview he is the strongest​, or unless your going that was his surpressed state, and zamas should be a bit stronger than that,

what a great list is this

Bergamo is the strongest in their base forms, I don't think he's stronger than drugged Basil before absorbing Goku's power considering he thought that Gohan was a good opponent to fight. That's Present Zamasu's power, future Zamasu's is inconsistent as fuck and I can't be arsed to put a number to it

Should have put zamas limitless and bs, unlike scrubgamo,I mean he got pummeled by ssj1 Goku,so Rou should STFU about limitless scrubgamo and praise one of the strongest kaioshin. But it make sense if scrubgamo and zamas are 50/50 in terms of power

[Triggered Vegeta]

It's still not really clear but Slim Buu seems to be above Base Goku not by any ridiculous amount.

Super Saiyan Goku definitely should be above Fat Buu because he manhandled a powered up Bergamo much easier than Buu dealt with a powered up Basil.

Base Goku and Gohan are possibly above Fat Buu. Base Goku kept up with Slim Buu and said he was faster than before so they should both be faster and more powerful than Fat Buu.

Bergamo was fairly close to Base Goku. Lavender was a bit further away from Base Gohan.

Drugged Basil a bit further way from Fat Buu. The powered up Basil significantly below Fat Buu. Non powered up Basil significantly below that and then Krillin not that far below that and still below Frieza on Namek.

It was a spar, these episodes aren't meant for you to scale these characters. Goku was trolling Buu the entire time, took zero noticeble damage.. got back up like it was nothing with a smile. It was obvious Both Goku & Buu were still holding back... It was a playful match for Goku & Buu.

[julianix]

Base Goku fights slim Buu in base

Ssj Goku fights ssj gohan
gohan trained for 8 months and trained again with big green
Ssjb Goku fights krillin
Krillin never had a chance goku wanted test his resolve
Ssjb will fight #17
10 years and if Frieza and trunks can get stronger in a short amount of time why can't 17 who had a fixed level higher than both?
Base Goku fights 4rth form Freeza
Don't see any problem
Freeza in 4rth form is a million times stronger than ssj Gohan.
Well of course the dude trained
Buu is much stronger than krillin
And that's bad?
Why is Goku using anything above base to fight gohan and krillin?
Cause he want to show krillin the level of opponents that will be in the tournaments
Stop making sense of this shit you guys can't.

Its not hard really your overreacting some of it been explained especially with krillin.

How strong is Gohan right now using these facts:

Gohan is confirmed weaker and loses to 1st form Freeza.

Base Goku fights final form Freeza evenly

Gohan trains and sparrs with ssj Goku

So using that a+b=× formula how strong has Gohan become in those 8 months?

Is current ssj Gohan >> dbz ssj2<< Goku ssj3<<gohan mystic?

Or are we just not using Goku as a measure of power because he does what he wants and nobody knows what % he's using.

[Noah]

They want everyone in the team to be super strong and awesome and not feel like jobbers or dead weight compared to Goku and Vegeta. It's like the polar opposite of GT. For me, it make things way interesting. And I love seeing how much people melt down over their imaginary numbers constantly getting crushed.

Oh I agree it is interesting, but like several times people said in this forum: you can have characters to be useful in the plot and still be far below Goku and Vegeta.
Android 17 being God-tier just make the whole existence and background of Super Saiyan God forms stupid

This means that this Boo is SS3 Gotenks+ too, probably Gotenks Boo level. Now you realize Boo jumped a few tiers in strength in 2 hours and you also realize that Gohan Boo could have done 10 push-ups and become stronger than SS3 Vegetto.

How about no? Let's keep this screwed logic to Super, leave Z alone please

Goku using SSJ blue and suppressing it down to Kuririn’s levels is equivalent of using a superluminal spaceship to cover a distance of a mere 100 metres while supressing its speed down to bicycle speed levels! And that while even using a jet plane (SSJ) would be a complete overkill for the purpose and having that option too. Roll out as many headcanons as you wish it won't change the fact it is lame.

What is even worse is that the show itself hasn't acknowledged explicitly that Goku is actually massively holding back by such a huge margin (like using 1% of a millionth of his power level). For all we know SSJB Goku and Kuririn’s Kamehamehas could be a ratio of 1.5:1, with the potential of becoming merely 15:1 if Goku were at full SSJB power. And now we have 17 Vs SSJB Goku clashing fists. If anyone ever shits on GT again about the Super 17 arc... At least in GT we had Gero explaining about 17's hidden potential, an upgraded second #17 with machine mutant technology, fusion of the original 17 with the upgraded machine mutant 17, absorption of evil power from hell and powering up by absorbing Ki from Goku's energy attacks in battle. I would take this over #17 training in the woods ANY TIME OF THE DAY, ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Great post, mate. Even though people might mock you because of your analogy, I think you're right and let them be okay with the protector of fauna and flora Android 17 being stronger than a SSJB, God bless the mother nature.

[TheMikado]

The answer Any time the power levels don't make sense is that a character was "holding back" even if they don't state it...

Because Beerus set the precedent of this... despite Beerus saying he used 10% of his power against Rageta. And Beerus is easily > than SSB x KK x10 so Beerus clearly held back even in 10% holding back to 1% of this power at least...

Also SSJ Goku held back against Frost
Frost held back against Piccolo
Vegeta held back against Frost
Vegeta held back against Magenta
Vegeta held back against Cabba
Hit held back against Goku
Copy Vegeta held back against SSJ3 Gotenks
Goku held back against Trunks
Black held back against Goku
Goku held back against Zamasu
SSB Vegeta held back against Trunks
Black and Zamasu held back against Trunks
Rage Trunks did whatever
Goku held back against Gohan
SSB Goku held back against Krillin
Goku held back against Buu

Guess what Goku will be doing next week against 17???

I'm calling it now, Goku is holding back...

Never mind that traditionally if a character is holding back it's usually stated as such.. unless the character is so grossed underpowered it's a gag. But whatever, let's just keep inserting "held back" in order to rectify our head canon even though the display and narrative never implies that. Because that's exactly what we want to see a show we're every single character just keeps holding back..

[ekrolo2]

Future Trunks clearly held back if his SS self can be on par with Blue Goku but he's not shit stomping Zamasu and Black with Rage. Just like how Merged Zamasu is holding back to not stomp Blue Goku

[Doctor.]

Future Trunks clearly held back if his SS self can be on par with Blue Goku but he's not shit stomping Zamasu and Black with Rage. Just like how Merged Zamasu is holding back to not stomp Blue Goku

But Black ALSO held back since his base form was also stomping on Blue Vegeta!

[ekrolo2]

Future Trunks clearly held back if his SS self can be on par with Blue Goku but he's not shit stomping Zamasu and Black with Rage. Just like how Merged Zamasu is holding back to not stomp Blue Goku

But Black ALSO held back since his base form was also stomping on Blue Vegeta!

Isn't the fan narrative on this meant to convey that Vegeta's the one holding back?

Merged Zamasu actually isn't too much of a problem (until the halo breaks) power wise if you look at him as an evil Kibitoshin. You've got a fairly strong fusee on the right (Black) combining with a fairly weak one (Future Zamasu) so it kind of makes sense why he isn't exactly the Super Vegetto of villain fusions.

[The gr]

Future Trunks clearly held back if his SS self can be on par with Blue Goku but he's not shit stomping Zamasu and Black with Rage. Just like how Merged Zamasu is holding back to not stomp Blue Goku

But Black ALSO held back since his base form was also stomping on Blue Vegeta!

But Vegeta also hold back, Because he wanted to see how strong is black, Because SSB is sparring material

[Lord Beerus]

They want everyone in the team to be super strong and awesome and not feel like jobbers or dead weight compared to Goku and Vegeta. It's like the polar opposite of GT. For me, it make things way interesting. And I love seeing how much people melt down over their imaginary numbers constantly getting crushed.

Oh I agree it is interesting, but like several times people said in this forum: you can have characters to be useful in the plot and still be far below Goku and Vegeta.
Android 17 being God-tier just make the whole existence and background of Super Saiyan God forms stupid .

The whole concept of the Androids/Cyborgs made everything about what happened in series up until their debut seem stupid and pointless. Especially now that they can train and get stronger.

[Bullza]

I'm sure I read once that Toriyama said the Androids could train and get stronger. God knows where that was said though.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm sure I read once that Toriyama said the Androids could train and get stronger. God knows where that was said though.

In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

[ekrolo2]

I think the Androids getting stronger from mechanical upgrades would make a lot more sense than a pair of ordinary people randomly having vast hidden potential that dwarfs fighters who've trained their whole lives like Krillin, Tien, Yamcha.

[Noah]

The whole concept of the Androids/Cyborgs made everything about what happened in series up until their debut seem stupid and pointless. Especially now that they can train and get stronger.

Sorry but back in the Android arc they at least worked to gave an explanation of why these androids were so powerful unlike Super that most likely would just label these characters as way stronger than the main cast and period

Toriyama said that the androids could get stronger if they train because they're modified humans not machines, so their potential should be similar to Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha to compare. He didn't stated they had any great hidden potential because of their modified parts or such.

I think the Androids getting stronger from mechanical upgrades would make a lot more sense than a pair of ordinary people randomly having vast hidden potential that dwarfs fighters who've trained their whole lives like Krillin, Tien, Yamcha.

Yeah it would make sense but considering there wasn't any explanation about Artificial Humans having such a great potential and Cell back then was the "Ultimate Android" doesn't feel right. 17 or 18 being able to surpass his Super Perfect Form power if they train for a couple of years? I know Super will not give us any crap about this, which I think is bad writing.

[ZombieVito]

I've made my list for Z+Super battle powers. It starts off at the millions, because that's what people really care about, the big numbers.

[spoiler]Freeza arc:

Goku: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Freeza: 120

Android arc:

Mecha Freeza: 140
-- Suppressed: 70

King Cold: 70

Trunks: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Goku: 3.7
-- Super Saiyan: 185

-- 3 years later --

Goku: 3.8
-- Super Saiyan: 190
-- post-absorptions: 120

Vegeta: 5
-- Super Saiyan: 250

Artificial Human #19: 75
-- post-absorptions: 150

Artificial Human #20: 80

Piccolo: 100

Artificial Human #18: 370
Artificial Human #17: 375

-- Cell stuff --

Piccolo: 300
-- no weights: 375

Cell: 285
-- post-absorptions: 465

Artificial Human #16: 465

Semi-Perfect Cell: 650

Vegeta: 12
-- Super Saiyan: 600
-- Grade 2 (x70): 840

Trunks: 11.9
-- Super Saiyan: 595
-- Grade 2: 833
-- Grade 3 (x100): 1,190

Perfect Cell: 1,000

-- Cell Games --

Piccolo: 1,650

Trunks: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Vegeta: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Cell Jr.: 1,700

Goku: 25
-- Mastered Super Saiyan (x100): 2,500

Gohan: 35
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 3,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 7,000

Perfect Cell: 2,500
-- vs Gohan: 3,600
-- full power: 4,000
-- Super Perfect Cell: 6,800

Boo arc:

Piccolo: 1,750
Kaioshin: 2,000

Gohan: 25
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 5,000

Dabra: 5,250

Goten: 20
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,000

Trunks: 22
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,200

Vegeta: 33
-- post Majin: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000

Goku: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 32,000

Fat Boo: 28,000
-- Grey Boo: 16,800
-- Mr. Boo: 11,200

-- Z-Sword stuff --

Gohan: 42
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,200
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,400
-- ultimate: 175,000

Gotenks: 75
-- post-training: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 30,000 (in order to make the power levels a bit more minimalist, let's just assume that Goku thought the kids would be able to go SS2 to face Boo; it makes it so that the latter part of the Boo arc, and Super as a consequence, has less bloated numbers)
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Super Boo: 105,000
-- Gotenks Boo: 225,000
-- Gohan Boo: 280,000

Vegetto: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan: 400,000

Kid Boo: 35,000

Battle of Gods:

Goku: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 36,000
-- Super Saiyan God: 6,000,000

Vegeta: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- enraged: 900,000

Beerus: 100,000,000
Whis: 300,000,000

Resurrection 'F':

Gohan: 42
-- Super Saiyan: 4,200

Piccolo: 1,900

Tagoma: 2,500
Ginyu: 2,900

Goku, Saiyan beyond God: 170,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,500,000

Vegeta, Saiyan beyond God: 171,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,550,000

Freeza: 175,000
-- Golden Freeza: 9,500,000

Champa arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- Kaioken x2: 17,500,000
-- x10: 87,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Piccolo: 2,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200

Botamo: 45

Frost: 40
-- second form: 50
-- final form: 2,300

Cabba: 50
-- Super Saiyan: 2,500

Hit: 8,250,000
-- improvement: 17,500,000

Champa: 99,000,000

Copy Vegeta arc:

Goku, Saiyan Beyond God: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Copy-Vegeta: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Gotenks: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Black arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 40,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- enraged: 12,500,000
-- post-Mafuba: 18,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- post-training: 18,500,000

Trunks: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan Rage: 12,000,000

Zamasu: 8,000

Black: 20,000
-- post-boost: 200,000
-- Super Saiyan Rosé: 10,000,000
-- post-boost: 13,500,000
-- post-scythe: 20,00,000

Merged Zamasu: 50,000,000
-- corrupted: 75,000,000
-- giant: 25,000,000

Vegetto, Saiyan Beyond God: 1,600,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 80,000,000

Spirit Sword: 40,000,000

Universal Survival arc:

Gohan: 80
-- M. Super Saiyan: 8,000

Goku: 105
-- M. Super Saiyan: 10,500
-- Saiyan beyond God: 370,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 18,500,000
-- Kaioken x2: 37,000,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200
-- Slim Boo: 385,000

Basil: 4,000
-- powered-up: 9,500

Lavenda: 6,500

Bergamo: 8,000
-- bullshit: 15,000,000

Toppo: 16,500,000

Kuririn: 65
Artificial Human #18: 370

Artificial Human #17, based on my astute powers of NEP guessing: 16,500,000[/spoiler]

Could have made a more minimalist list if I wanted to, but eh, I guess this is good enough.

Putting Z aside:

- SbG Goku can't be that weak. Kuririn said Goku was as strong as ever while fighting Freeza. He should be stronger than SSG.
- Goku and Vegeta where confirmed to get stronger in the Copy-Vegeta arc.
- How did Goku get that strong from learning the Mafuba?
- You really think Goku already surpassed Beerus in this current arc?

[emperior]

I've made my list for Z+Super battle powers. It starts off at the millions, because that's what people really care about, the big numbers.

[spoiler]Freeza arc:

Goku: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Freeza: 120

Android arc:

Mecha Freeza: 140
-- Suppressed: 70

King Cold: 70

Trunks: 3
-- Super Saiyan: 150

Goku: 3.7
-- Super Saiyan: 185

-- 3 years later --

Goku: 3.8
-- Super Saiyan: 190
-- post-absorptions: 120

Vegeta: 5
-- Super Saiyan: 250

Artificial Human #19: 75
-- post-absorptions: 150

Artificial Human #20: 80

Piccolo: 100

Artificial Human #18: 370
Artificial Human #17: 375

-- Cell stuff --

Piccolo: 300
-- no weights: 375

Cell: 285
-- post-absorptions: 465

Artificial Human #16: 465

Semi-Perfect Cell: 650

Vegeta: 12
-- Super Saiyan: 600
-- Grade 2 (x70): 840

Trunks: 11.9
-- Super Saiyan: 595
-- Grade 2: 833
-- Grade 3 (x100): 1,190

Perfect Cell: 1,000

-- Cell Games --

Piccolo: 1,650

Trunks: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Vegeta: 25
-- Super Saiyan: 1,250
-- Grade 2: 1,750

Cell Jr.: 1,700

Goku: 25
-- Mastered Super Saiyan (x100): 2,500

Gohan: 35
-- Mastered Super Saiyan: 3,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 7,000

Perfect Cell: 2,500
-- vs Gohan: 3,600
-- full power: 4,000
-- Super Perfect Cell: 6,800

Boo arc:

Piccolo: 1,750
Kaioshin: 2,000

Gohan: 25
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 5,000

Dabra: 5,250

Goten: 20
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,000

Trunks: 22
-- M. Super Saiyan: 2,200

Vegeta: 33
-- post Majin: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000

Goku: 40
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 32,000

Fat Boo: 28,000
-- Grey Boo: 16,800
-- Mr. Boo: 11,200

-- Z-Sword stuff --

Gohan: 42
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,200
-- Super Saiyan 2: 8,400
-- ultimate: 175,000

Gotenks: 75
-- post-training: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 30,000 (in order to make the power levels a bit more minimalist, let's just assume that Goku thought the kids would be able to go SS2 to face Boo; it makes it so that the latter part of the Boo arc, and Super as a consequence, has less bloated numbers)
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Super Boo: 105,000
-- Gotenks Boo: 225,000
-- Gohan Boo: 280,000

Vegetto: 4,000
-- Super Saiyan: 400,000

Kid Boo: 35,000

Battle of Gods:

Goku: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 36,000
-- Super Saiyan God: 6,000,000

Vegeta: 45
-- M. Super Saiyan: 4,500
-- Super Saiyan 2: 9,000
-- enraged: 900,000

Beerus: 100,000,000
Whis: 300,000,000

Resurrection 'F':

Gohan: 42
-- Super Saiyan: 4,200

Piccolo: 1,900

Tagoma: 2,500
Ginyu: 2,900

Goku, Saiyan beyond God: 170,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,500,000

Vegeta, Saiyan beyond God: 171,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,550,000

Freeza: 175,000
-- Golden Freeza: 9,500,000

Champa arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- Kaioken x2: 17,500,000
-- x10: 87,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Piccolo: 2,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200

Botamo: 45

Frost: 40
-- second form: 50
-- final form: 2,300

Cabba: 50
-- Super Saiyan: 2,500

Hit: 8,250,000
-- improvement: 17,500,000

Champa: 99,000,000

Copy Vegeta arc:

Goku, Saiyan Beyond God: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Copy-Vegeta: 175,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000

Gotenks: 150
-- M. Super Saiyan: 15,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 120,000

Black arc:

Goku: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 40,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- enraged: 12,500,000
-- post-Mafuba: 18,500,000

Vegeta: 50
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,750,000
-- post-training: 18,500,000

Trunks: 50
-- M. Super Saiyan: 5,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 10,000
-- Super Saiyan Rage: 12,000,000

Zamasu: 8,000

Black: 20,000
-- post-boost: 200,000
-- Super Saiyan Rosé: 10,000,000
-- post-boost: 13,500,000
-- post-scythe: 20,00,000

Merged Zamasu: 50,000,000
-- corrupted: 75,000,000
-- giant: 25,000,000

Vegetto, Saiyan Beyond God: 1,600,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 80,000,000

Spirit Sword: 40,000,000

Universal Survival arc:

Gohan: 80
-- M. Super Saiyan: 8,000

Goku: 105
-- M. Super Saiyan: 10,500
-- Saiyan beyond God: 370,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 18,500,000
-- Kaioken x2: 37,000,000

Mr. Boo: 11,200
-- Slim Boo: 385,000

Basil: 4,000
-- powered-up: 9,500

Lavenda: 6,500

Bergamo: 8,000
-- bullshit: 15,000,000

Toppo: 16,500,000

Kuririn: 65
Artificial Human #18: 370

Artificial Human #17, based on my astute powers of NEP guessing: 16,500,000[/spoiler]

Could have made a more minimalist list if I wanted to, but eh, I guess this is good enough.

That slim boo is way too strong. Goku would have surely been a lot more surprised if Buu got 30+ times stronger in just 2-3 hours. This means the supposedly Saiyan Beyond God Goku would also be a lot weaker than you put him. I personally put base Goku at 30 bilion right now (Buuhan level)

[Lord Beerus]

The whole concept of the Androids/Cyborgs made everything about what happened in series up until their debut seem stupid and pointless. Especially now that they can train and get stronger.

Sorry but back in the Android arc they at least worked to gave an explanation of why these androids were so powerful unlike Super that most likely would just label these characters as way stronger than the main cast and period

Toriyama said that the androids could get stronger if they train because they're modified humans not machines, so their potential should be similar to Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamcha to compare. He didn't stated they had any great hidden potential because of their modified parts or such.

The explanation given for the Android being as strong as they were was nonsense because Gero had no idea about what happened on Namek. Yet he was able to program Androids far stronger than Freeza and Super Saiyans.

Plus, if the Androids can train and get stronger, then that technically means they do have potential to tap into. You can't get stronger if they there is no strength within you to bring forth in the first place.