What is the general concensus on Super's pros and cons?

[Totamo]

What do you believe is the majority opinion on the good things this series does and the bad things.

[Lord Beerus]

I don't think you can reach a general consensus on the positives and negatives for Super becuase every other opinion on what make this show good and makes the show bad are extremely varied.

[Overlord78]

From the absolutely broken power scale of the anime to the outright boring storytelling of the manga, the cons of the Super anime/manga outweigh the pros in my opinion. But this is just my view on it and there will be a variety of opinions on this matter.

[Totamo]

From the absolutely broken power scale of the anime to the outright boring storytelling of the manga, the cons of the Super anime/manga outweigh the pros in my opinion. But this is just my view on it and there will be a variety of opinions on this matter.

That's not what I asked. what do you think people majority think are the pros and cons.

[Lord Frieza]

Pros all the new characters and story. Cons execution errors and missteps.

Thats really it, we could argue about the animation till the day we dye but the animation is a product of the current anime industry and how that effects long running shows like it. Some see the shows poor start as a con but given what happened during that time the fact they covered all that stuff over the recap arcs was a blessing in disguise.

When people talk busted power scaleing they have really only two genie examples, Trunks blocking Black's attacks early on and the stuff with Krillin. Ass pull attacks and transformations are not the same thing, they could be explained better bu they are not tied to the power scale. Trunks's stuff is a bit inexcusable and all they needed to do was not have Goku go Blue and people would not throw a fit.

In hind sight SS Rage dose have some build up, although its very poor, in the form of Vegeta's mutated SS2 and Trunks mastering SS2. Thats good ground work for a new form but is not used properly. Trunks should point blank not have been the one to use the Mafuba and well we all know the problem with the Genki Blade.

The stuff with Krillin could be chalked up to Goku holding back but many people wont have that. They want hard stated facts and nothing but while Toei want to keep over-marketing SSB for no reason. You can see were their's a clash of ideals here.

Supers core problem is the opposite of GT's.

GT looked inward to expand its story, everything in it is based on ideas from both the manga and the anime. When it works you get SS4 and the Baby arc but when it dose not you get the Black star and S17 arcs. You get a story that makes the universe feel smaller and stagnant.

Super looks outwards with tons of new ideas flying out the wood work but its resulted in unchecked growth in to little time. Tons of new ideas with little time spent actually trying to flesh them all out.

[TheMikado]

Most forums will give you a general idea.

The splice of life episodes are definitely the highlight as well as seeing old friends.

The power scaling, characterizations, and lore readjustments are what are people are having problems with. A lot of it feels at the expense of fan service and bringing old fan favorites. The plot feels written around meeting bullet points rather than a natural narrative.

So there would be and are good things about Super but for some people I would say the changes between Z and Super are too much to easily transition. The major aspect that probably sets a lot of fans who enjoy the series off changes it makes retroactively to the series and characters they love. If people were just saying, yes it's different that Z, enjoy it as something seperate. Instead of saying that Z and the characters were always like this, people would probably not actually despise the series as much.

[The gr]

Which version we're talking about I'm going with the Anime, here's how the majority see Super, animation sucks, good idea but executed badly, characterization, power levuls and hair recolor, positive hit, cabba, vegito figths and black

[emperior]

Here's what I think the "general consensus" for the anime is (this isn't my opinion of Super, nor do I think everyone sees these pros and cons in the serie)

Pros

[spoiler]New stories
New gods
New lore and worldbuilding
Old characters
Filler/Slice of Life episodes
Gags
Beerus and Whis
Characters with unique abilities
Hit and Cabba
Kaio-Ken return
Future Trunks return
Zamasu and Black
Future Trunks farewell to Gohan
Some fanservice
Sometimes animation is very, very good[/spoiler]

Cons

[spoiler]Animation and art
Movie retellings
Stuck in the 10 years gap
Goten and Trunks never grow
Never explained why pilaf gang is younger than before
Some fanservice is deemed "too much"
Too many hair recolors
Bad power scaling
Bad characterization
Goku never kissed Chi-Chi gag
Goku is evil and too dumb "not my Goku"
Vegeta isn't obsessed with Goku 24/7
Vegeta didn't get the kill on Freezer
Vegeta didn't go SSJ3
Black isn't Goten
Gohan isn't a fighter anymore
lol Fembroly Toriyama has no ideas
Too much fanservice
"Makes no sense"
Unexplained things
Asspulls and bullshit
Plotholes
Vegetto "retcon"
28 mortals inhabitated planets in U7 makes DB world feel small
Goku and Vegeta show
Random power-ups for the other characters
Future Trunks was able to kick Rosè Black once
Super Saiyan Rage
Genkidama sword
No tension
Not dark enough
FT arc ending too dark
Episode 5
Naoki Tate[/spoiler]

Let me know if I missed something

[kinisking]

Which version we're talking about I'm going with the Anime, here's how the majority see Super, animation sucks, good idea but executed badly, characterization, power levuls and hair recolor, positive hit, cabba, vegito figths and black

I wouldn't say the majority think the ideas are executed badly. It actually seems to be a minority considering how popular the series is and overall reception. People tend to just be more negative on Kanzenshuu and even here you can see a lot of positivity for the black and universe survival arc.

The undisputed cons that a lot of people have are powerful level inconsistencies though .

[Asura]

Most forums will give you a general idea.

The splice of life episodes are definitely the highlight as well as seeing old friends.

The power scaling, characterizations, and lore readjustments are what are people are having problems with. A lot of it feels at the expense of fan service and bringing old fan favorites. The plot feels written around meeting bullet points rather than a natural narrative.

So there would be and are good things about Super but for some people I would say the changes between Z and Super are too much to easily transition. The major aspect that probably sets a lot of fans who enjoy the series off changes it makes retroactively to the series and characters they love. If people were just saying, yes it's different that Z, enjoy it as something separate. Instead of saying that Z and the characters were always like this, people would probably not actually despise the series as much.

You know, I've been trying to say what you just said for so long, and I could never quite find the words to express it. Sometimes the plot really does feel like it's written around meeting bullet points instead of something more natural. If you re-watch the FT arc, this point sticks out like a sore thumb. Although in fairness, this current arc does feel like it has a slightly more natural flow to it, probably because the pacing is finally being slowed down. Everything happens too damn fast in this series.

In regards to a general consensus on Super's pros and cons, you're not going to really get that. Despite what some people here like to say, those that dislike Super are not a tiny minority, at least from the western perspective. I would say there is no majority here, it's really a 50/50 split on whether people like Super or not. So someone's lists of pros might be another person's list of cons. There are some things that I think the two groups can agree on, like the slice of life episodes generally being pretty nice, but it's few and far between with how much is a general consensus.

[Totamo]

Most forums will give you a general idea.

The splice of life episodes are definitely the highlight as well as seeing old friends.

The power scaling, characterizations, and lore readjustments are what are people are having problems with. A lot of it feels at the expense of fan service and bringing old fan favorites. The plot feels written around meeting bullet points rather than a natural narrative.

So there would be and are good things about Super but for some people I would say the changes between Z and Super are too much to easily transition. The major aspect that probably sets a lot of fans who enjoy the series off changes it makes retroactively to the series and characters they love. If people were just saying, yes it's different that Z, enjoy it as something separate. Instead of saying that Z and the characters were always like this, people would probably not actually despise the series as much.

You know, I've been trying to say what you just said for so long, and I could never quite find the words to express it. Sometimes the plot really does feel like it's written around meeting bullet points instead of something more natural. If you re-watch the FT arc, this point sticks out like a sore thumb. Although in fairness, this current arc does feel like it has a slightly more natural flow to it, probably because the pacing is finally being slowed down. Everything happens too damn fast in this series.

In regards to a general consensus on Super's pros and cons, you're not going to really get that. Despite what some people here like to say, those that dislike Super are not a tiny minority, at least from the western perspective. I would say there is no majority here, it's really a 50/50 split on whether people like Super or not. So someone's lists of pros might be another person's list of cons. There are some things that I think the two groups can agree on, like the slice of life episodes generally being pretty nice, but it's few and far between with how much is a general consensus.

I don't know about that. Do you have any evidence to say that?

[Asura]

Most forums will give you a general idea.

The splice of life episodes are definitely the highlight as well as seeing old friends.

The power scaling, characterizations, and lore readjustments are what are people are having problems with. A lot of it feels at the expense of fan service and bringing old fan favorites. The plot feels written around meeting bullet points rather than a natural narrative.

So there would be and are good things about Super but for some people I would say the changes between Z and Super are too much to easily transition. The major aspect that probably sets a lot of fans who enjoy the series off changes it makes retroactively to the series and characters they love. If people were just saying, yes it's different that Z, enjoy it as something separate. Instead of saying that Z and the characters were always like this, people would probably not actually despise the series as much.

You know, I've been trying to say what you just said for so long, and I could never quite find the words to express it. Sometimes the plot really does feel like it's written around meeting bullet points instead of something more natural. If you re-watch the FT arc, this point sticks out like a sore thumb. Although in fairness, this current arc does feel like it has a slightly more natural flow to it, probably because the pacing is finally being slowed down. Everything happens too damn fast in this series.

In regards to a general consensus on Super's pros and cons, you're not going to really get that. Despite what some people here like to say, those that dislike Super are not a tiny minority, at least from the western perspective. I would say there is no majority here, it's really a 50/50 split on whether people like Super or not. So someone's lists of pros might be another person's list of cons. There are some things that I think the two groups can agree on, like the slice of life episodes generally being pretty nice, but it's few and far between with how much is a general consensus.

I don't know about that. Do you have any evidence to say that?

I could quote you a zillion different people from a zillion different websites, but I think even here it's rather obvious to see how split people are on Super. Do you have any evidence that the dislike for Super is just a tiny minority?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

There isn't one, especially not right now. Some love it, some hate it, some are indifferent or bored with it. I personally fall into the bored camp, but I stick around because of the better half of my love/hate relationship with this community.

[Freeza9000]

I don't think you can reach a general consensus on the positives and negatives for Super becuase every other opinion on what make this show good and makes the show bad are extremely varied.

This, right here.

Any pros of Dragon Ball Super can be regarded as a con to many. Such as the last episode with Krillin and SSJB Goku. Some people like it because it makes human characters more relevant (even Krillin using strategy) and some people hate it because of inconsistencies power wise.

[TheMikado]

I don't think you can reach a general consensus on the positives and negatives for Super becuase every other opinion on what make this show good and makes the show bad are extremely varied.

This, right here.

Any pros of Dragon Ball Super can be regarded as a con to many. Such as the last episode with Krillin and SSJB Goku. Some people like it because it makes human characters more relevant (even Krillin using strategy) and some people hate it because of inconsistencies power wise.

But those things aren't opposite sides of the same coin. You can have one without the other. I want and like the older characters being relevant, but not the execution of it which many people agree, even if you like them being relevant, artificially inflating Krillin or nerfing SSB isn't the way to do it. I think you would have a wide concensus that making older characters relevant if done correctly is great, as well as people agreeing power levels in Super are screwed. That's when it comes down to a matter of preference on which is more important to the individual.

[TekTheNinja]

Here's what I think the "general consensus" for the anime is (this isn't my opinion of Super, nor do I think everyone sees these pros and cons in the serie)

Pros

[spoiler]New stories
New gods
New lore and worldbuilding
Old characters
Filler/Slice of Life episodes
Gags
Beerus and Whis
Characters with unique abilities
Hit and Cabba
Kaio-Ken return
Future Trunks return
Zamasu and Black
Future Trunks farewell to Gohan
Some fanservice
Sometimes animation is very, very good[/spoiler]

Cons

[spoiler]Animation and art
Movie retellings
Stuck in the 10 years gap
Goten and Trunks never grow
Never explained why pilaf gang is younger than before
Some fanservice is deemed "too much"
Too many hair recolors
Bad power scaling
Bad characterization
Goku never kissed Chi-Chi gag
Goku is evil and too dumb "not my Goku"
Vegeta isn't obsessed with Goku 24/7
Vegeta didn't get the kill on Freezer
Vegeta didn't go SSJ3
Black isn't Goten
Gohan isn't a fighter anymore
lol Fembroly Toriyama has no ideas
Too much fanservice
"Makes no sense"
Unexplained things
Asspulls and bullshit
Plotholes
Vegetto "retcon"
28 mortals inhabitated planets in U7 makes DB world feel small
Goku and Vegeta show
Random power-ups for the other characters
Future Trunks was able to kick Rosè Black once
Super Saiyan Rage
Genkidama sword
No tension
Not dark enough
FT arc ending too dark
Episode 5
Naoki Tate[/spoiler]

Let me know if I missed something

This is pretty comprehensive, though something seems passive aggressive about some of the cons you listed, as in it seems like you're belittling some complaints, but that might just be in my head.

[Totamo]

You know, I've been trying to say what you just said for so long, and I could never quite find the words to express it. Sometimes the plot really does feel like it's written around meeting bullet points instead of something more natural. If you re-watch the FT arc, this point sticks out like a sore thumb. Although in fairness, this current arc does feel like it has a slightly more natural flow to it, probably because the pacing is finally being slowed down. Everything happens too damn fast in this series.

In regards to a general consensus on Super's pros and cons, you're not going to really get that. Despite what some people here like to say, those that dislike Super are not a tiny minority, at least from the western perspective. I would say there is no majority here, it's really a 50/50 split on whether people like Super or not. So someone's lists of pros might be another person's list of cons. There are some things that I think the two groups can agree on, like the slice of life episodes generally being pretty nice, but it's few and far between with how much is a general consensus.

I don't know about that. Do you have any evidence to say that?

I could quote you a zillion different people from a zillion different websites, but I think even here it's rather obvious to see how split people are on Super. Do you have any evidence that the dislike for Super is just a tiny minority?

I can find websites saying any piece of art is awful, that's not how you judge a general census, you need numbers dude.

Imdb give super 8.2, tv.Com give super an 8.7. funimation give super a 4.5.out of 5 Crunchyroll gives super a 4.5 put of 5 and these are done by several several people.

I was genuinely shocked by how many people actually like this show even dragon ball youtubers the amount of people who bash super aren't as high as you think and most of them get mass downvoted for it, similar to Z.

Even on here, I can name the people who don't like super on my fingers. In fact there was just a rating pool and guess what, most of them gave 8 to 7's. Those who gave low scores were the ones I already knew would do so.


I haven't tried it on reddit but I'm positive it be the same 8 to 7's.


I hope I am not seeming aggressive here but yeah people in general do like super. Nostalgia and power of dragon ball can only go so far . GT and Kai should tell you that.

I could be wrong though.

[Asura]

I don't know about that. Do you have any evidence to say that?

I could quote you a zillion different people from a zillion different websites, but I think even here it's rather obvious to see how split people are on Super. Do you have any evidence that the dislike for Super is just a tiny minority?

I can find websites saying any piece of art is awful, that's not how you judge a general census, you need numbers dude.

Imdb give super 8.2, tv.Com give super an 8.7. funimation give super a 4.5.out of 5 Crunchyroll gives super a 4.5 put of 5 and these are done by several several people.

I was genuinely shocked by how many people actually like this show even dragon ball youtubers the amount of people who bash super aren't as high as you think and most of them get mass downvoted for it, similar to Z.

Even on here, I can name the people who don't like super on my fingers. In fact there was just a rating pool and guess what, most of them gave 8 to 7's. Those who gave low scores were the ones I already knew would do so.


I haven't tried it on reddit but I'm positive it be the same 8 to 7's.


I hope I am not seeming aggressive here but yeah people in general do like super. Nostalgia and power of dragon ball can only go so far . GT and Kai should tell you that.

I could be wrong though.

Numbers and ratings don't mean a single thing, especially not from sites like Crunchyroll. (who also had Berserk 2016 at like a 4/5, despite how hugely disliked it was among the Berserk community)

Getting a general consensus by actually seeing how people react is a lot more concrete than numbers. Just going to different places and asking around to see what people think really gives you some insight into the general opinion. I see an equal amount of hate as I do an equal amount of love for Super. I mean just look around. In the "What's your current rating of Super as of episode 84?" thread there are a lot of mixed opinions there, and pretending like you've already read all of them because you can count on your hand how many people dislike Super is like sticking your fingers in your ears.

[Ki Breaker]

Pros- We have the manga because of super, also the survival arc is going good so far so that's a thing too

Cons- everything else

[Totamo]

I could quote you a zillion different people from a zillion different websites, but I think even here it's rather obvious to see how split people are on Super. Do you have any evidence that the dislike for Super is just a tiny minority?

I can find websites saying any piece of art is awful, that's not how you judge a general census, you need numbers dude.

Imdb give super 8.2, tv.Com give super an 8.7. funimation give super a 4.5.out of 5 Crunchyroll gives super a 4.5 put of 5 and these are done by several several people.

I was genuinely shocked by how many people actually like this show even dragon ball youtubers the amount of people who bash super aren't as high as you think and most of them get mass downvoted for it, similar to Z.

Even on here, I can name the people who don't like super on my fingers. In fact there was just a rating pool and guess what, most of them gave 8 to 7's. Those who gave low scores were the ones I already knew would do so.


I haven't tried it on reddit but I'm positive it be the same 8 to 7's.


I hope I am not seeming aggressive here but yeah people in general do like super. Nostalgia and power of dragon ball can only go so far . GT and Kai should tell you that.

I could be wrong though.

Numbers and ratings don't mean a single thing, especially not from sites like Crunchyroll. (who also had Berserk 2016 at like a 4/5, despite how hugely disliked it was among the Berserk community)

Getting a general consensus by actually seeing how people react is a lot more concrete than numbers. Just going to different places and asking around to see what people think really gives you some insight into the general opinion. I see an equal amount of hate as I do an equal amount of love for Super. I mean just look around. In the "What's your current rating of Super as of episode 84?" thread there are a lot of mixed opinions there, and pretending like you've already read all of them because you can count on your hand how many people dislike Super is like sticking your fingers in your ears.

Seeing how people react to something is not concrete in the slightest bit because the people who are loudest aren't the majority.Not even close.

Yeah numbers can be screwed, but it's the best evidence you can get for something like this instead of "I have seen people" or "I have talked to people" or "I have read sites" Also crunchy is one number out of the several numbers I listed and I can find more.



You think toei is going to look at sites and talk to people to get a good look on the product? They dont care about that , they are going to look at numbers and the ratings because those speak louder than 100 sites.

What you just said is how you lead to false generalizations or bubbles that burst the moment you come into contact anything that's different.


And I have read all of them, please don't say things like that, that's trying to imply I'm a liar. There are more high scores than low scores, that's not mixed.


Anyway, super is more loved than it is hated going by numbers and ratings but if those mean nothing to you that's fine but I advise you don't go into business.