"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Miracles, have you ever thought that maybe you read to literally into the translation of the words of a man who uses notoriously loose language, a man who is also a part of a notoriously vague business culture? It's totally legitimate to take what they say with a grain of salt.

[OLKv3]

I just dawned on me, if Gogeta were to be used in the manga and he transformed into SSJG or SSJB, wouldn't that instantly burnout the time limit for the fusion? I mean, SSJ3 reduced the amount of time Gotenks could stay fused from 30 minutes to 5 minutes because of how insanely powerful SSJ3 was. I don't know SSJG or SSJB Gogeta would last 5 seconds.

SSG doesn't seem to have any kind of strain or negative drawback in the manga, so he could probably last the whole hour

[Basako]

Toriyama does state "Like last time..."
So he does check the script from his "entire plot outline" for the anime consistently.
It's STILL his story, they only add in bits of details for the purpose of breaking it up into episodes.
Toriyama even states that this is necessary and he oversees this. Which means he approves them.

Bring me a sentence where he states clearly he checks and corrects the scripts of each episode and I'll belive that. Talking about a single script in singular doesn't look like that for start, it could be a general plot which we don't know how detailed is. Also looks totally like he will see what they've done at the same time as the interviewer. Like last time what? I don't know what does that mean out of context. Of course it's still his story, he writes the main plot, but changes and additions are on Toei, some are fine, some are terrible.

And about the other thing you say, it's incorrect, Toriyama complains about the quality, he doesn't specifically say quality of the animation. Maybe it's that, but we don't know. Maybe are the episode scripts or the characterizations too.

Hey, I checked : 'Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.'

Obviously, what we all know, that he writes the plot and passes it to Toei so the make the anime, adding and changing stuff.

I don't have to bring you irrelevant information that does not change the fact that Dragonball Super is Toriyama's "entire plot." Which he also "oversees" and said he checks scripts. Especially when he stated that the changes TOEI makes are "NECESSARY." That doesn't magically not make it his story. What you believe doesn't matter. The truth still stands...Super anime and manga are Toriyama's story. Your unbelief doesn't change this truth.

It's the other way around, I'm asking not to believe, I'm asking some prove that is not as vague as 'oversees', which is said in a very generic way or 'I haven't checked yet, let's see together how it is' talking about a script. Man, that's not prove he corrects the episodes, which are where the detailed scripts are. I don't know why you keep telling to me this about changes are necessary, Toriyama says it and I say it too. If you have a notebook with a general plot and some notes, of course you have to rewrite it into 20 minute episodes. Toriyama didn't have to confirm this obvious fact. That doesn't mean I have to consider his every piece of bad writing crap that appears in the anime. If they don't know haw to write a good fight, making spontaneous Genki balls, clones of Black coming from other dimension, unexplained transformations and power ups or having a character retreat to learn a technique a whole day with a master to finally other one learn it in five minutes with a YouTube video, well, something was not working right. At least Toyotaro has the respect to understand the DB universe and not changing major things from the plot and this version is in fact supervised by Toriyama. This is the truth you were saying, some of you don't want to admit it, who knows why. Looks like people want the manga to be an adaptation of the anime without changes from it. Well, it's not. It is Toyotaro's manga adaptation of the same plot, supervised by Toriyama himself every month. Thank god he doesn't include same changes the anime makes and that he knows how the characters are.

A prediction for next chapter. We'll see a ki sword duel between the two fused beings. Zamasu and Black have been using that consistently and Vegetto used something similar too against Boohan. I bet Toyotaro is the one that can come up with that, he knows how to write cool fights.

[Miracles]

Bring me a sentence where he states clearly he checks and corrects the scripts of each episode and I'll belive that. Talking about a single script in singular doesn't look like that for start, it could be a general plot which we don't know how detailed is. Also looks totally like he will see what they've done at the same time as the interviewer. Like last time what? I don't know what does that mean out of context. Of course it's still his story, he writes the main plot, but changes and additions are on Toei, some are fine, some are terrible.

And about the other thing you say, it's incorrect, Toriyama complains about the quality, he doesn't specifically say quality of the animation. Maybe it's that, but we don't know. Maybe are the episode scripts or the characterizations too.

Hey, I checked : 'Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.'

Obviously, what we all know, that he writes the plot and passes it to Toei so the make the anime, adding and changing stuff.

I don't have to bring you irrelevant information that does not change the fact that Dragonball Super is Toriyama's "entire plot." Which he also "oversees" and said he checks scripts. Especially when he stated that the changes TOEI makes are "NECESSARY." That doesn't magically not make it his story. What you believe doesn't matter. The truth still stands...Super anime and manga are Toriyama's story. Your unbelief doesn't change this truth.

It's the other way around, I'm asking not to believe, I'm asking some prove that is not as vague as 'oversees', which is said in a very generic way or 'I haven't checked yet, let's see together how it is' talking about a script. Man, that's not prove he corrects the episodes, which are where the detailed scripts are. I don't know why you keep telling to me this about changes are necessary, Toriyama says it and I say it too. If you have a notebook with a general plot and some notes, of course you have to rewrite it into 20 minute episodes. Toriyama didn't have to confirm this obvious fact. That doesn't mean I have to consider his every piece of bad writing crap that appears in the anime. If they don't know haw to write a good fight, making spontaneous Genki balls, clones of Black coming from other dimension, unexplained transformations and power ups or having a character retreat to learn a technique a whole day with a master to finally other one learn it in five minutes with a YouTube video, well, something was not working right. At least Toyotaro has the respect to understand the DB universe and not changing major things from the plot and this version is in fact supervised by Toriyama. This is the truth you were saying, some of you don't want to admit it, who knows why. Looks like people want the manga to be an adaptation of the anime without changes from it. Well, it's not. It is Toyotaro's manga adaptation of the same plot, supervised by Toriyama himself every month. Thank god he doesn't include same changes the anime makes and that he knows how the characters are...

I'm not interested in your opinions. Checking every episode does not make Super Toriyama's.
Especially when Toriyama and TOEI directly stated that it is his story.

[Basako]

I don't have to bring you irrelevant information that does not change the fact that Dragonball Super is Toriyama's "entire plot." Which he also "oversees" and said he checks scripts. Especially when he stated that the changes TOEI makes are "NECESSARY." That doesn't magically not make it his story. What you believe doesn't matter. The truth still stands...Super anime and manga are Toriyama's story. Your unbelief doesn't change this truth.

It's the other way around, I'm asking not to believe, I'm asking some prove that is not as vague as 'oversees', which is said in a very generic way or 'I haven't checked yet, let's see together how it is' talking about a script. Man, that's not prove he corrects the episodes, which are where the detailed scripts are. I don't know why you keep telling to me this about changes are necessary, Toriyama says it and I say it too. If you have a notebook with a general plot and some notes, of course you have to rewrite it into 20 minute episodes. Toriyama didn't have to confirm this obvious fact. That doesn't mean I have to consider his every piece of bad writing crap that appears in the anime. If they don't know haw to write a good fight, making spontaneous Genki balls, clones of Black coming from other dimension, unexplained transformations and power ups or having a character retreat to learn a technique a whole day with a master to finally other one learn it in five minutes with a YouTube video, well, something was not working right. At least Toyotaro has the respect to understand the DB universe and not changing major things from the plot and this version is in fact supervised by Toriyama. This is the truth you were saying, some of you don't want to admit it, who knows why. Looks like people want the manga to be an adaptation of the anime without changes from it. Well, it's not. It is Toyotaro's manga adaptation of the same plot, supervised by Toriyama himself every month. Thank god he doesn't include same changes the anime makes and that he knows how the characters are...

I'm not interested in your opinions. Checking every episode does not make Super Toriyama's.
Especially when Toriyama and TOEI directly stated that it is his story.

Of course it's his story, in the sense he writes the main plot. I don't think Peter Jackson would say The Lord of the rings movies aren't Tolkien's story. But the changes that were made, for example, to give more screen time to Liv Tyler, are not his.

Toriyama is very involved with the manga version, corrects the storyboards every month. We don't know how deep he is with the anime, as far as we know, he just gives them the plot and the notes and Toei takes it from there. That at least till the last arc, because Toyotaro said they would be receiving more from him in the future, as he did from them in the Zamasu arc, by the way.

[Lord Beerus]

That often occurred to me also but after giving it more and more thought, Toei, Toyotaro, and/or Toriyama can and probably would say that the whole divine ki allows them a full standard time limit because "it's not normal ki" or some schtick like that. The anime bothered to say non-Kaioshin Potara fusions only last a hour. I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest if they went ahead and said something about divine ki altering the rules of the Metamoran dance to better suit the plot.

It wouldnt be the first time either that something like that would have happened. SSJ4 Gogeta lasted 10 minutes and SSJ3 Gotenks could only last 5 so why could Gogeta last longer in a form that is magnitudes above that of SSJ3? You could argue that the new bodies SSJ4 grants allow them to store more energy and therefore somehow allow a longer than usual timer but I think you get my drift here.

SSG doesn't seem to have any kind of strain or negative drawback in the manga, so he could probably last the whole hour

Okay, fair enough. Bring on Gogeta.

[Namz]

Wait. Did you people say Gotenks lasted only 5 minutes in SS3?

[KentalSSJ6]

Wait. Did you people say Gotenks lasted only 5 minutes in SS3?

The standard amount of time for a dance is 30 minutes. However using a form like SSJ3 massively decreases the amount of time usable for the form due to the drain SSJ3 has. So yeah, SSJ3 Gotenks only lasts 5 minutes.

[Basako]

Wait. Did you people say Gotenks lasted only 5 minutes in SS3?

That's what Trunks estimated. But, although not as much as Freezer's 5 minutes, I do think this 5 minutes looked longer when they fought too, both in the manga and the anime.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Yes, his training probably consisted of achieving SSG, since it's clearly implied he didn't have the form before this point, and mastering his strategy, which is what Goku stated his training consisted of. If his power had increased, characters would have told us it increased (hell, even Black says Vegeta isn't much too different).

My job as a reader isn't to explain what the author can't be bothered to explain. You take what you get, you don't make up excuses for the author.

It is never implied in the manga that Vegeta didn't have the form before. Hell, it's not even stated in the anime that Vegeta can't access that form...just that he attained god ki without the ritual. Black says Vegeta doesn't look different in base form...which he doesn't. Black is soon made to eat those words.

In writing, the author shouldn't be expected to hold your hand to understand basic implications. It's unnecessary and makes for redundant reading. The RoSaT is a place that puts tremendous strain on a persons body, so even IF Vegeta didn't do a single thing but work on this technique the entire time, he would've toughened up anyway. Just because this is a manga for children, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to read between the lines.

It's clearly implied by the fact that Vegeta never used it before AND he says he needed this form to defeat Black. If Vegeta doesn't look too different in base form, then it's only logical that his power didn't increase. And if his power didn't increase much in base, then it didn’t in Super Saiyan Blue either. Which means Vegeta should have still been defeated by SS Black, let alone SSR.

The ROSAT is useless at this point. It's good for getting a lot of training in a short amount of time, but beyond that, what will 10x gravity and a denser atmosphere accomplish? Him and Goku barely got any stronger after three years of training together and you're telling me Vegeta got strong enough to push himself from Super Saiyan Black's level to Rosé's in one year? That does not make any sense, regardless of whatever other incredible boosts in strength in the original series (which most likely also make no sense, depending on the examples you're willing to give).

There's nothing to read under the lines here. You're just making up excuses to justify an oversight in Toyotaro's/Toriyama's writing. Goku explained what Vegeta's training consisted of and we know that the ROSAT doesn't give monumental boosts anymore. It's a manga for children where the author meticulously tries to explain every little dubious thing in order to make it make sense. Yet, he doesn't do it this time, because it's a mistake.

Piccolo himself said that the Z-Fighters only released their true powers at the time of the fight, so the energy that Dr. Gero absorbed from it was considered nothing.
Vegeta was not even fighting, so of course his Ki would be down until the moment of the fight.
In the first flush of vegeta, Black realizes that he is faster and wonders how he managed to extract so much power from that body. Vegeta became stronger yes.

If you say that ROSAT is useless, then you should say that Zenkais are useless as well, since they were not used since the Freeza Saga (and yet Black went from a level where he picked up Vegeta SSJ2, to a level that hit Vegeta SSB). But is not this incoherent?

Goten and Trunks training for two weeks at ROSAT managed to get stronger and get the SSJ3. This is relative, not to say it's useless.
Vegeta created a strategy, learned to use SSB multiple times in a row, and to change between two transformations almost imperceptibly, was not just brute force increase.

And of course he got the SSG before getting into ROSAT. Goku was not surprised unlike Trunks, and he said it was a form before SSB. So he has to have SSG before having SSB (after all, SSB is the combination of SSG and SSJ power).
He said he needed this way to win because he spent less energy, but he is weaker.

[batistabus]

It's clearly implied by the fact that Vegeta never used it before AND he says he needed this form to defeat Black. If Vegeta doesn't look too different in base form, then it's only logical that his power didn't increase. And if his power didn't increase much in base, then it didn’t in Super Saiyan Blue either. Which means Vegeta should have still been defeated by SS Black, let alone SSR.

The ROSAT is useless at this point. It's good for getting a lot of training in a short amount of time, but beyond that, what will 10x gravity and a denser atmosphere accomplish? Him and Goku barely got any stronger after three years of training together and you're telling me Vegeta got strong enough to push himself from Super Saiyan Black's level to Rosé's in one year? That does not make any sense, regardless of whatever other incredible boosts in strength in the original series (which most likely also make no sense, depending on the examples you're willing to give).

There's nothing to read under the lines here. You're just making up excuses to justify an oversight in Toyotaro's/Toriyama's writing. Goku explained what Vegeta's training consisted of and we know that the ROSAT doesn't give monumental boosts anymore. It's a manga for children where the author meticulously tries to explain every little dubious thing in order to make it make sense. Yet, he doesn't do it this time, because it's a mistake.

You're reading way too much into that phrase. It's a throwaway comment to show Black's arrogance. Also, characters can suppress their strength in this series.

Is it useless or not? Why are you assuming Vegeta and Goku barely got stronger in that amount of time? To me, it seems like they got much stronger and gained a much better mastery of their god ki, despite SSB's shortcomings. If it weren't for Hit's gimmick and Frost cheating, either of them could've taken out all of Universe 6 alone. Yes, of course the bulk of Vegeta's edge over Black in the manga has to do with this technique, but that's not everything.

You say it's a manga for children where every little thing is explained, but then you say that it's implied that Vegeta never had God before he entered the RoSaT despite the fact that it's never stated. Which is it? It doesn't need to be stated that going into the RoSaT makes you stronger because that has already been shown plenty of times in the series.

I have nothing more to say on this topic. I personally feel that this is a strange thing to nitpick.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It's clearly implied by the fact that Vegeta never used it before AND he says he needed this form to defeat Black. If Vegeta doesn't look too different in base form, then it's only logical that his power didn't increase. And if his power didn't increase much in base, then it didn’t in Super Saiyan Blue either. Which means Vegeta should have still been defeated by SS Black, let alone SSR.

The ROSAT is useless at this point. It's good for getting a lot of training in a short amount of time, but beyond that, what will 10x gravity and a denser atmosphere accomplish? Him and Goku barely got any stronger after three years of training together and you're telling me Vegeta got strong enough to push himself from Super Saiyan Black's level to Rosé's in one year? That does not make any sense, regardless of whatever other incredible boosts in strength in the original series (which most likely also make no sense, depending on the examples you're willing to give).

There's nothing to read under the lines here. You're just making up excuses to justify an oversight in Toyotaro's/Toriyama's writing. Goku explained what Vegeta's training consisted of and we know that the ROSAT doesn't give monumental boosts anymore. It's a manga for children where the author meticulously tries to explain every little dubious thing in order to make it make sense. Yet, he doesn't do it this time, because it's a mistake.

You're reading way too much into that phrase. It's a throwaway comment to show Black's arrogance. Also, characters can suppress their strength in this series.

Is it useless or not? Why are you assuming Vegeta and Goku barely got stronger in that amount of time? To me, it seems like they got much stronger and gained a much better mastery of their god ki, despite SSB's shortcomings. If it weren't for Hit's gimmick and Frost cheating, either of them could've taken out all of Universe 6 alone. Yes, of course the bulk of Vegeta's edge over Black in the manga has to do with this technique, but that's not everything.

You say it's a manga for children where every little thing is explained, but then you say that it's implied that Vegeta never had God before he entered the RoSaT despite the fact that it's never stated. Which is it? It doesn't need to be stated that going into the RoSaT makes you stronger because that has already been shown plenty of times in the series.

I have nothing more to say on this topic. I personally feel that this is a strange thing to nitpick.

You answered me?

In fact the user who said all this was the '' Medic ''.
You probably answered the wrong person, I answered something else to him

[batistabus]

You answered me?
You probably answered the wrong person, I answered something else to him

Sorry, I must've edited the quote improperly. I've fixed it.

[jplaya2023]

we need ssj red and ssj blue gogeta for the culture and the toy sales

[Fearless]

Any news for chapter 23?

[MyNiggaGoku]

Any news for chapter 23?

Not yet.We can expect some leaks in the next few days though

[sintzu]

Any news for chapter 23?

Not yet.We can expect some leaks in the next few days though

It's safe to say it'll be the last one for the Black arc right ? I can't wait to see how different it is from the anime.

[Fearless]

Any news for chapter 23?

Not yet.We can expect some leaks in the next few days though

Damn, I can't wait to see how the fight goes and if Merged Zamasu would have to struggle against the Saiyans like in the anime.

[The gr]

Any news for chapter 23?

Not yet.We can expect some leaks in the next few days though

It's safe to say it'll be the last one for the Black arc right ? I can't wait to see how different it is from the anime.

Nah, Maybe next month or June it will end, and expect the leaks around in April 19 or earlier

[MyNiggaGoku]

Any news for chapter 23?

Not yet.We can expect some leaks in the next few days though

It's safe to say it'll be the last one for the Black arc right ? I can't wait to see how different it is from the anime.

I think May's chapter will be the one that wraps up the F.Trunks arc.

We must see the follwoing events:Merged Zamasu beating the heroes,Vegetto appearing and fighting Zamasu(either he beats him or he splits and Trunks finishes the job),Zeno appearing,the gang's escape to the past & Trunks' goodbye.

2 chapters will be enough to cover these events without feeling rushed or dragged out.