You guys seem to know everyone's twitter, don't you have Karasawa's twitter?
BakaManiaHD wrote:I don't know if you guys spotted this, but it looks like Toei added some screen shaking effect + animated the background during this part of the Vegeto vs Zamasu fight.
TV VERSION:
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BLU RAY VERSION:
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They really wanted to make episode 66 look even better than it was. Mixed feelings about that.
I already thought that was one of the best looking episodes of the franchise and now they have improved it further, but they sacrificed episodes that actually need corrections to do that. Episode 67 seems to be a lost cause, but what about Tate's part episode 72? I remember even some Tate's fans saying his art was rougher than normal.
A world without Dragon Ball is just boring.
Favourite old DB Animators: Masaki Sato and Tadayoshi Yamamuro
Favourite new DB Animators: Yuya Takahashi and Chikashi Kubota
FortuneSSJ wrote:-Staff twitter-
I already thought that was one of the best looking episodes of the franchise and now they have improved it further, but they sacrificed episodes that actually need corrections to do that. Episode 67 seems to be a lost cause, but what about Tate's part episode 72? I remember even some Tate's fans saying his art was rougher than normal.
FortuneSSJ wrote:-Staff twitter-
I already thought that was one of the best looking episodes of the franchise and now they have improved it further, but they sacrificed episodes that actually need corrections to do that. Episode 67 seems to be a lost cause, but what about Tate's part episode 72? I remember even some Tate's fans saying his art was rougher than normal.
No corrections.
Damn.
A world without Dragon Ball is just boring.
Favourite old DB Animators: Masaki Sato and Tadayoshi Yamamuro
Favourite new DB Animators: Yuya Takahashi and Chikashi Kubota
Interesting. 81 was the first episode he worked on since the Future Trunks arc, I'm glad he's stuck around after being brought on so late on an episode.
The fact that he does corrections on paper is very interesting, I'd assumed corrections where done almost all digitally.
ArchedThunder wrote:
The fact that he does corrections on paper is very interesting, I'd assumed corrections where done almost all digitally.
Any sort of 'real' animation is almost always done on paper. There are some instances of inbetweens being done digitally, but it's rare.
Putting aside how much cheaper paper is compared to a capable PC and the necessary software licences, people working as inbetweeners and 2nd key animators are essentially just junior key animators anxiously awaiting their permanent promotion. They demonstrate their abilities on paper much like everyone else.
The transition to and from digital animation is quite difficult, supposedly. Sun & Moon's penchant for digital animation has spawned some interesting interviews with animators talking about getting used to a tablet and the various software - for many, this was quite a challenge. I think bouncing around would be impractical. I know I found it so hard to switch to a tablet initially, yet I now get quite frustrated by pen and paper.
Anyway! I'll post some examples of what animators' roughs look like tomorrow - someone sent me some Super ones recently. I think I may have posted them before, but I have a trash memory for anything I'm not super focused on.
Oh, I know animation is usually done on paper, I just thought that a lot of corrections were done digitally. I know there was a thing about One Piece's production some years ago that showed corrections being done digitally and I know someone who knows someone who works at TAP and according to them corrections done there are digital.
ArchedThunder wrote:Oh, I know animation is usually done on paper, I just thought that a lot of corrections were done digitally. I know there was a thing about One Piece's production some years ago that showed corrections being done digitally and I know someone who knows someone who works at TAP and according to them corrections done there are digital.
You're talking about that old Inside Toei Animation video, right? The stuff shown there wasn't a correction. It's a mix of Toei attempting to seem far more forward-thinking than they really are, alongside demonstrating the inbetween stuff I was referring to.
You definitely do see that in places like TAP, but it's not the norm for the industry. I imagine they set things up like that to allow them to easily send and receive files from anywhere in the world given their prominence as a support studio.
Ajay wrote:
You're talking about that old Inside Toei Animation video, right? The stuff shown there wasn't a correction. It's a mix of Toei attempting to seem far more forward-thinking than they really are, alongside demonstrating the inbetween stuff I was referring to.
You definitely do see that in places like TAP, but it's not the norm for the industry. I imagine they set things up like that to allow them to easily send and receive files from anywhere in the world given their prominence as a support studio.
Ah, fair enough.
Interested to see those roughs you have.
Because animator's corner might not continue I was thinking maybe this thread should keep track of the episode staff lists for future reference.
I made a little mock up based on Shimanuki's episode 81 entry, I had no idea what font you used, Ajay, but it's just an example so it doesn't really matter.
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If this is something you might want to do I can go through your listings and put the staff credits on a bunch of the entries for you if you work out a template .
ArchedThunder wrote:Alright, cool. If you ever want to do this though, just let me know, I'll do a bunch of the work for ya.
Appreciated. I'm kinda hesitant anyway as I really don't want the entries to be overly busy. They're supposed to be a general overview of the supervisor's style and any standout KAs, rather than being some sort of comprehensive database. That kinda stuff's better left to Kanzenshuu's main page or sites like AniCorner where you can make full use of actually being able to interact with the names. I feel it'd be wasted on an image. If this project ever outgrew the forum, then I'd definitely include all the credits, but I think as it stands, it's better kept simple.
For anyone curious, here's a rough idea of how it works.
第二原画 Daini Genga = Second Key Animation wrote:Nigen 二原 for short, second key animation is a relatively new concept in anime. This person does what in the west is known as "cleanup" - cleaning up the rough genga before they're passed on to the animation director to be checked. This step permits key animators to pump out more animation than if they had to produce a more polished shot. For example, an animator who might be good at action can draw several complicated shots in rough form in the time it might take them to draw one polished shot. A nigen would then clean it up. Infrequently you will also see a daiichi genga 第一原画 or first key animation credit, which is presumably a way of distinguishing between the people who drew the rough key animation intended to be cleaned up by the daini genga crew and the people who drew regular key animation.
Enjoy my scribbles:
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How rough the initial KA is varies from case to case, as does the severity of the correction, but this is just a general example.
I always love to link the roughs of Yutaka Nakamura's famous Sword of Stranger scene when giving examples of rough KA:
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This is about the kinda level I feel like Higashide hands in when he's been doing endless action episodes in a row. Perhaps not quite as formless, but similar. I imagine it's why you have 2nd KA like Tu Yong-cu struggling with animating the complex movement mapped out.
It's great for a show like Super in terms of actually maintaining a decent level of action, but it definitely has its drawbacks as we saw with the rotation in #81. It'd be great to see Higashide polish up everything himself again, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
I'm assuming Arale's leaner size is reflective of her current portrayals? It's a curious choice for what's intended as a nostalgic episode (thus representing the rounder Arale).
Most of the corrections are either unnecessary or hardly even noticeable, meanwhile the episodes that require genuine correction like some Kitano and Yashima episodes are left untouched. Why did they make such selective corrections in episodes that looked fine already?
So many scribbly roughs, it's a wonder the Champa arc turned out being passable for the most part.
With the overall quality of the show being much higher now than it was back then I wonder how the roughs look compared to those.
As for Higashide cleaning up his own work, hopefully it'll happen one day, maybe in a year or so. It'd be awesome if we got to the point where he didn't have to be a machine and only showed up every 5-10 episodes with polished stuff. One day... one day... As long as Super continues to improve it'll hopefully happen. It'd be awful if Super got to that point and Higashide bailed then, like "My work here is done".
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