Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Dai-Saiyajin]

Thats disingenuous to say the least. Thats like saying Shimanuki can't produce anything worthwhile because his key animation is awful most of the time, or that Futoshi Highashide is nothing special because his works only great when it's corrected. It's an underhanded thing to say.

I'd agree with you (me being stupid and ignorant) if it weren't because tate is the most praised "genius, innovator, the best of the best of all the best of the bestest of DBS" in this thread, I see how you keep hyping every single episode where he participates, etc, and I still can't see this impressive job from that genius, yes, it can be the holy grail of animation from a technical standpoint, but it's not impressive, it doesn't have any wow factor to say the least.
On the other hand, he ends up being the most controversial; why isn't kitano, yashima the most controversial huh? because people expect from tate delivering something worth his fame, the hopes are high for someone that gets that attention.
Now that you mention higashide, he can be corrected all the time, but he's working practically in all the episodes and bringing stuff that seems harder to make, angles, poses, and it's good (I've never seen someone criticising his work), not 100% of his stuff is impressive at all, but considering the factors here.... do you get my point? I'm sure you don't.

On the other Hand:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you remember how the people here was bashing yamamuro because he uses the same pose in the kamehameha? welp seems like people stay quiet when we see the same flying/falling/stand positions from other guys.

I don't expect to win in tate's fields, wasn't never my intention, I'm giving my opinion as everyone else

Completely agree, it seems that no one is allowed to criticize Tate whitout get bashed by someone. Everybody could speak from various technicals point-of-views, but in the end, taste always will be more relevant, and this applies not only in animation, but also in music, movies, books, etc.

Naoki Tate definitely it's not of my taste, and his called "fluidity" is ruined by his horrible art, the characters looks like jelly when they are fighting and his fluidity is made by excessive prolonged limbs and too much impact frames and effects like smoke, it seems like he is trying to convey the ugly art with those effects.

Again, this is my personal opinion, i'm not asking to anyone agree with it, and please, no impolite responses.

[Psykomatik]

It always blow my mind when someone's literally is disrespectful towards one animator (he's human you know, just like you and me), and then ask to people to answer him with respect...

I'll just answer to one thing: Yes, you can criticize Tate. If not, cuertas would be banned since February of last year. Stop playing the victims here, it's not even funny.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

[kinisking]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

Kitano is genuinely not that great of a supervisor though. With Tate it's preference , but Kitanos just bad.

[SaiyanGod117]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

Kitano is genuinely not that great of a supervisor though. With Tate it's preference , but Kitanos just bad.

Yamamuro is criticized a lot here, he isn't bad, well not nearly as bad as Kitano.

[kinisking]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

Kitano is genuinely not that great of a supervisor though. With Tate it's preference , but Kitanos just bad.

Yamamuro is criticized a lot here, he isn't bad, well not nearly as bad as Kitano.

That's true, but the criticisms usually aren't as hardly worded. They tend to be more valid than the ones aimed at Tate too. Heck, Ajay doesn't even like criticizing him anymore because he feels like he's said all there is to say. He only really does it when asked. But, we see the exact same complaints from some people about Tate over and over. That's how I see things. I like Tate's animation but it's not like I'm a fanboy of him .

[Sodhi]

In my eyes it's not about criticism or opinion, that is fine. it is about having "valid" criticism or opinions. For ex. If you don't like Tate style that is 100% fine, however don't come here saying that Tate is not a good animator, or he does not know what he is doing. You look like an idiot. He is very good and talented animator, he has not shown something bad yet, other than #5 but we all know why that episode was an exception.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

Kitano is genuinely not that great of a supervisor though. With Tate it's preference , but Kitanos just bad.

Yamamuro is criticized a lot here, he isn't bad, well not nearly as bad as Kitano.

I know Kitano is probably the worst supervisor that worked on super, but Tate's style is really weird for me, his art is too rough, the way he made the characters move by extending their limbs is ugly, the body of Goku in the last episode against No.17 looked like some kind jelly. He also put too much effects on his animation. I like effects, but not that exagerated.

[Alee9977]

It's funny that when someone criticize Tate it's considered disrepectful, but when Kitano is criticized (and a lot) no one cares...

Nobody never said that, you can criticize if you want, nobody is stopping you from that.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I know Kitano is probably the worst supervisor that worked on super, but Tate's style is really weird for me, his art is too rough, the way he made the characters move by extending their limbs is ugly, the body of Goku in the last episode against No.17 looked like some kind jelly. He also put too much effects on his animation. I like effects, but not that exagerated.

What's the definition of rough art? Cause I don't think anyone here is on the same page as you?

[dhaval_dongre]

do everyone want yamamouro replaced as a character designer, and who would you prefer as a character designer instead of tadayoshi.

The reality is he is going nowhere. He has done a lot of good work in the past that's why he is where he is today, but unfortunately his work isn't as good as it used to be and his draconian approach of overcorrecting people has alienated some animators.
But on the positive side of things Tsuji primarily and Ide, mainly run the show now, with Yamamuro doing the promotional artwork and the character designs. They do give animators enough freedom, at the least the important ones and do not overcorrect them like Yamamuro does. Moreover Yamamuro hasn't directly worked on the series in a really long time. I guess its more than a year now. It really amuses me that a guy who was heavily involved in the 2 movies from start to finish, has gone almost AWOL from the anime. A guy who is the CD didn't even design an important character like Vegetto himself.
Lets hope that some big names show up on the tournament, considering the facts that I mentioned above.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

I know Kitano is probably the worst supervisor that worked on super, but Tate's style is really weird for me, his art is too rough, the way he made the characters move by extending their limbs is ugly, the body of Goku in the last episode against No.17 looked like some kind jelly. He also put too much effects on his animation. I like effects, but not that exagerated.

What's the definition of rough art? Cause I don't think anyone here is on the same page as you?

The rough art i'm talking about is his cut of Goku vs No.17, the whole sequence, except the close-ups, is really weird, with strange body proportions, especially for goku.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

He has done a lot of good work in the past that's why he is where he is today.

He actually hasn't done that much good work, that's the funny thing. This is the one everyone points to when they say "Yamamuro used to be good", but that's the best piece of work he's ever done that I'm aware of, and I'm not even convinced he's responsible for it aside from following good direction (Not to mention the idea that it could simply be a Yamamuro correction that's been misattributed for quite some time. Though maybe I shouldn't mention that since I've never seen any evidence to back it). Out of all the character designers we've had on Dragon Ball, Yamamuro's resume is easily the least impressive. He's where he is because he had a few good ideas once and he knows people. It's unfortunate, but that's where we are, and I for one am in for the long haul.

[dhaval_dongre]

He has done a lot of good work in the past that's why he is where he is today.

He actually hasn't done that much good work, that's the funny thing. This is the one everyone points to when they say "Yamamuro used to be good", but that's the best piece of work he's ever done that I'm aware of, and I'm not even convinced he's responsible for it aside from following good direction (Not to mention the idea that it could simply be a Yamamuro correction that's been misattributed for quite some time. Tough maybe I shouldn't mention that since I've never seen any evidence to back it). Out of all the character designers we've had on Dragon Ball, Yamamuro's resume is easily the least impressive. He's where he is because he had a few good ideas once and he knows people. It's unfortunate, but that's where we are, and I for one am in for the long haul.

Many of his peers from his Z days who were more talented than him, went on to work on other series, doing other projects. While Yamamuro stuck to one franchise. Him being in the seniority was also one of the reasons and there is no denying that.

[aaronWgamer]

In my eyes it's not about criticism or opinion, that is fine. it is about having "valid" criticism or opinions. For ex. If you don't like Tate style that is 100% fine, however don't come here saying that Tate is not a good animator, or he does not know what he is doing. You look like an idiot. He is very good and talented animator, he has not shown something bad yet, other than #5 but we all know why that episode was an exception.

I second this. People should understand the difference between something that's bad or unrefined and something that's not suited to their preferences. Kitano is criticized because his work is clearly unintentionally different and in a visually unappealing way. He can't work well with the schedule. People not liking Tate's exaggerated take on animation isn't the same at all.

[SaiyanGod117]

He has done a lot of good work in the past that's why he is where he is today.

He actually hasn't done that much good work, that's the funny thing. This is the one everyone points to when they say "Yamamuro used to be good", but that's the best piece of work he's ever done that I'm aware of, and I'm not even convinced he's responsible for it aside from following good direction (Not to mention the idea that it could simply be a Yamamuro correction that's been misattributed for quite some time. Tough maybe I shouldn't mention that since I've never seen any evidence to back it). Out of all the character designers we've had on Dragon Ball, Yamamuro's resume is easily the least impressive. He's where he is because he had a few good ideas once and he knows people. It's unfortunate, but that's where we are, and I for one am in for the long haul.

No, people say he's good primarily because of his art( Which I would say is the best among all the character designers who worked on Dragon Ball) and that piece of animation is definitely his. If anything out of all the character designers who worked on Dragon Ball with the least impressive resume, it would have to be Minoru Madea.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

No people say he's good primarily because of his art

His "art" (I assume you mean his models, shading, etc.) is exactly what so many hate about the aesthetic of modern Dragon Ball. They look like plastic figures.

[SaiyanGod117]

No people say he's good primarily because of his art

His "art" (I assume you mean his models, shading, etc.) is exactly what so many hate about the asthetic of modern Dragon Ball. They look like plastic figures.

His old art.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

No people say he's good primarily because of his art

His "art" (I assume you mean his models, shading, etc.) is exactly what so many hate about the asthetic of modern Dragon Ball. They look like plastic figures.

His old art.

That is a topic to explore, isn't it? I wonder how many people actually know Yamamuro's old work when they see it. It was consistent, it was clean, slick. It definitely felt modern... this is sounding very familiar to me...

Even in the older material, at best, you could argue his designs were a minor improvement over what Nakatsuru was putting out (though I'd go in the opposite direction). Yamamuro now is the same Yamamuro as we've always had. He may undergo minor revisions for better or worse, but he's never changed in a substantial way. That's the only point I was making.

[Gashif Aldi]

I mean Yammamuro can actually improve a lots of bad traits easily, such as removing highlights, fix the shading, and make the body a bit relaxed looking. And done.
Or just don't overcorrect.
Like Yamamuro's work himself is criticised by some animators in the industry.
I mean, he never really watched any anime other than DB.