"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Boo Machine]

I was actually kind of hoping to see a SSJ God Vegito. But I guess there isn't any real reason not to use Blue. Especially if the stamina issue aren't a problem anymore.

[HeroR]

People are bitching about Super being bad now??

It never was that good, idk what you guys were expecting.

Oh look, another person stating their opinion as fact. This really is the Youtube comment section.

[HeroR]

The manga explanation about them not being true Kaioshin actually supports the slow breakdown he had in the anime, so I like both. Anime wins because of his VA and mannerisms being amazing. He really felt deranged and insane at that point

It actually doesn't make much sense if you think about. Gowasu also said that only the Supreme Kais can used the Time Rings, which is why Trunks can't used it. Yet, Black was able to despite being in a mortal body. Meaning that he is recognized as a Supreme Kai, unless the Fusion rules are more strict the the Time Rings' rules.

I actually like Goku giving up on Vegeta when he didnt want to fuse and said he prefers fighting on his own (I prefer this version!), its typical Goku, not caring about dying or for the sake of saving the earth but rather a challenge, he did the same against Boo so its not that surprising at all, he will inevitably find a weakness, thats how his character is when all odds are against him, or unlock a new form.
So was Goku able to go into SSJB again without eating the senzu yet? how? I need the full chapter! it seems they were still fighting on who gets to eat the bean.

4/5, cant wait for the full chapter!

You have to remember that unlike the manga, Goku and Vegeta spend an entire episode fighting Merged Zamasu. Goku particularly broke all but one of his limbs. By the time he suggested fusion, both him and Vegeta were in crap shape and already tried it solo. So the situation is about the same, except Goku suggested fusion sooner in the manga.

[YonedgeHP]

I'm pretty sure that he is a Kaiōshin. For me It's just Vegetto mocking him as an illegitimate God or making Zamas angry because other people does not accept his position. If this ain't the case, It's BS, hell even his XV2 description describes Future Zamas as a Kaiōshin and in the game he didn't wear the Time Ring either.

And other thing if it's the case, how Vegetto knows that he is not an actual Kaiōshin? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know the requirements for it.

[HeroR]

I know this is the most irrelevant thing in the chapter so far, but I really like how Fused Zamasu demonstrates his immortality by regenerating a hole in his chest. It was left unclear the extent of his regenerative powers in the anime pre-Goomasu.

Because both Zamasu and Black are considered kaioshins since both can use the time ring.

The only thing you need to use a time ring is a Potara, from what we've seen. For the manga, you need literal Kaioshin for a permanent fusion. There's no contradiction other than Old Kaioshin's story from the Boo Arc.

Actually, it was said in the anime and the manga that only a Supreme Kai can used the Time Rings. Nothing about only the earrings being needed. Gowasu even explained this in this very chapter about why Trunks can't use a Time Ring.

Then I guess that's another reason why this chapter is hilariously bad. I suppose putting on the potara makes you a Kaioshin but also not a Kaioshin?

Only one half of Merged Zamasu is a Kaioshin.

Maybe that's what ultimately turns him into the universe glob the mortal half tries to defuse but the God half tries to stay fuse resulting in a blob of nothingness.

Kibito wasn't a Kaioshin and that fusion stayed permanent. Seems half Kaioshin is all that's needed to stay permanent.

Not to mention that witch Old Kai fused with. I don't think Merged Zamasu will defused because Toyo would literally goes himself in the very same chapter.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I know this is the most irrelevant thing in the chapter so far, but I really like how Fused Zamasu demonstrates his immortality by regenerating a hole in his chest. It was left unclear the extent of his regenerative powers in the anime pre-Goomasu.

Because both Zamasu and Black are considered kaioshins since both can use the time ring.

The only thing you need to use a time ring is a Potara, from what we've seen. For the manga, you need literal Kaioshin for a permanent fusion. There's no contradiction other than Old Kaioshin's story from the Boo Arc.

Actually, it was said in the anime and the manga that only a Supreme Kai can used the Time Rings. Nothing about only the earrings being needed. Gowasu even explained this in this very chapter about why Trunks can't use a Time Ring.

But at this point, that's been demonstrated not to be the case. It's a retcon, it's nothing new. I'm struggling to understand why everyone is having a hard time with this.

[HeroR]

But at this point, that's been demonstrated not to be the case. It's a retcon, it's nothing new. I'm struggling to understand why everyone is having a hard time with this.

In this very chapter, Gowasu said that Trunks can't used a Time Ring because he isn't a Supreme Kai, yet Black could despite being in a mortal shell, meaning that he is seen as a Supreme Kai. The same with Future Zamasu who was using the Time Ring. Are you telling me that Toyo retcon himself in the same chapter?

[TheSaiyanGod]

The manga explanation about them not being true Kaioshin actually supports the slow breakdown he had in the anime, so I like both. Anime wins because of his VA and mannerisms being amazing. He really felt deranged and insane at that point

It actually doesn't make much sense if you think about. Gowasu also said that only the Supreme Kais can used the Time Rings, which is why Trunks can't used it. Yet, Black was able to despite being in a mortal body. Meaning that he is recognized as a Supreme Kai, unless the Fusion rules are more strict the the Time Rings' rules.

I actually like Goku giving up on Vegeta when he didnt want to fuse and said he prefers fighting on his own (I prefer this version!), its typical Goku, not caring about dying or for the sake of saving the earth but rather a challenge, he did the same against Boo so its not that surprising at all, he will inevitably find a weakness, thats how his character is when all odds are against him, or unlock a new form.
So was Goku able to go into SSJB again without eating the senzu yet? how? I need the full chapter! it seems they were still fighting on who gets to eat the bean.

4/5, cant wait for the full chapter!

You have to remember that unlike the manga, Goku and Vegeta spend an entire episode fighting Merged Zamasu. Goku particularly broke all but one of his limbs. By the time he suggested fusion, both him and Vegeta were in crap shape and already tried it solo. So the situation is about the same, except Goku suggested fusion sooner in the manga.

In fact, Gowasu says that only the Kaioshins are allowed to wear the ring of time. But there is no restriction that impels anyone else to use.This is a matter of tradition / rules imposed by the gods themselves
The earring does not give kaioshin to anyone. In between, the earring of Kaioshins has a specific color.
Gowasu gave Zamasu the position of Kaioshin temporarily, only for him to go to the planet Babari a thousand years later.
Because he named Zamasu Kaioshin, he gave his earring that has a characteristic color of the Kaioshins.

But that's not what makes him a Kaioshin

[HeroR]

In fact, Gowasu says that only the Kaioshins are allowed to wear the ring of time. But there is no restriction that impels anyone else to use.This is a matter of tradition / rules imposed by the gods themselves
The earring does not give kaioshin to anyone. In between, the earring of Kaioshins has a specific color.
Gowasu gave Zamasu the position of Kaioshin temporarily, only for him to go to the planet Babari a thousand years later.
Because he named Zamasu Kaioshin, he gave his earring that has a characteristic color of the Kaioshins.

But that's not what makes him a Kaioshin

And again, Gowasu straight up said that Trunks can't used a Time Ring (which I believe it was because they wanted Trunks to leave), nothing about it being a rule since they've already broke one rule by letting Goku and Vegeta fuse despite being mortals.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

But at this point, that's been demonstrated not to be the case. It's a retcon, it's nothing new. I'm struggling to understand why everyone is having a hard time with this.

In this very chapter, Gowasu said that Trunks can't used a Time Ring because he isn't a Supreme Kai, yet Black could despite being in a mortal shell, meaning that he is seen as a Supreme Kai. The same with Future Zamasu who was using the Time Ring. Are you telling me that Toyo retcon himself in the same chapter?

Has it occurred to you that not everyone speaks in hyper-literal terms. I know, that's quite a radical suggestion for internet conversation, but just consider it for a moment. Kaioshin are typically the only ones with Potara, yes? So isn't it a perfectly rational conclusion would be that when he said "You have to be a Kaioshin to use the time ring", he meant "You have to wear the earrings that only Kaioshin wear to use the time ring"? The answer is yes, it's totally plausible.

[Grimlock]

The earring does not give kaioshin to anyone. In between, the earring of Kaioshins has a specific color.
Because he named Zamasu Kaioshin, he gave his earring that has a characteristic color of the Kaioshins.

That could (?) solve everything, except that you are forgetting a very important detail: In the manga, all Kaioshins earrings are green. Toei changed the colors to yellow.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

The reaction to this chapter was pretty tame because there was no major changes.

i remember when red Vegeta was first shown and I saw videoes everywhere like a couple mintues after to it was first shown.

Spoilers that cover pretty much of everything that happened in this chapter have been out for over 10 hours and most people I see are just talking about female Broly and that new female saiyan image if she is a just a new character or is female Broly. I don't see any manga vs anime debates to. and why would there be? the same thing that happened in this chapter happened in the anime with just differences.

I expect the next chapter to be the same case.

[TheMathemagician]

A bit bummed by the lack of halo on Merged Zamasu - that part of his design was my favorite in the anime, as it makes him look very godly. I really hope that he will do something cool/memorable before he’ll defuse, because otherwise, he’ll be just as much of a disappointment and forgettable villain as Black. His utterly insane and overly narcissistic persona in the anime is what made him very memorable and distinguishing, and he also have a lot of memorable moments, so he better have some of those characteristic too!

In regards to Vegetto, he seems to be way more powerful than Merged Zamasu that I would imagine just using Super Saiyan God would probably enough to handle him. It feels a bit dumb that he used blue in the fight since it has stamina issues. At the very least, he should have used Vegeta’s red-to-blue strategy in the previous chapter. I was so sure that he’s gonna use it in this chapter that I’m very surprised that he didn’t (but maybe he did in the pages that hasn’t leaked yet, but it’s really doubtful).

Imagine Vegetto using Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan-Boo in the Boo arc - that’s what him using blue against Zamasu feels to me.

I've been wondering why people were mad about this as well. How can you retcon something that was never given an official explanation?

Actually, while the explanation in the original manga was nothing more than an assumption made by Goku, we do have official words from the guidebooks saying that Majin Boo’s bad air in his body was the reason why Vegetto defused.

I think the thing I missed most is how Merged Zamasu started out as this elegant godly villain, to being reduced to a ravaging monster. Here, Merged Zamasu is just a brute like the manga version of Goku Black. It is kind of disappointing. Seriously, can Toyo write a villain?

I agree. I mean I don't hate his antagonists, they're just pretty bland to me.

[TheSaiyanGod]

In fact, Gowasu says that only the Kaioshins are allowed to wear the ring of time. But there is no restriction that impels anyone else to use.This is a matter of tradition / rules imposed by the gods themselves
The earring does not give kaioshin to anyone. In between, the earring of Kaioshins has a specific color.
Gowasu gave Zamasu the position of Kaioshin temporarily, only for him to go to the planet Babari a thousand years later.
Because he named Zamasu Kaioshin, he gave his earring that has a characteristic color of the Kaioshins.

But that's not what makes him a Kaioshin

And again, Gowasu straight up said that Trunks can't used a Time Ring (which I believe it was because they wanted Trunks to leave), nothing about it being a rule since they've already broke one rule by letting Goku and Vegeta fuse despite being mortals.

Because it is a rule and tradition of the gods.

No mortal would be allowed to wear the ring of time. It would be an insult to the gods.

But there's nothing to stop it, just not allowed

[HeroR]

Has it occurred to you that not everyone speaks in hyper-literal terms. I know, that's quite a radical suggestion for internet conversation, but just consider it for a moment. Kaioshin are typically the only ones with Potara, yes? So isn't it a perfectly rational conclusion would be that when he said "You have to be a Kaioshin to use the time ring", he meant "You have to wear the earrings that only Kaioshin wear to use the time ring"? The answer is yes, it's totally plausible.

If that was the case, why wasn't Trunks allowed to used the Time Ring to escape, yet Gowasu had no problem with Goku and Vegeta fusing? It doesn't fit within the narrative since it was said that only Supreme Kais can used the Time Rings and fused forever, yet Black and Future Zamasu can used a Time Ring, but can't stay fused forever. These two statements can't really exists at the same time.

Because it is a rule and tradition of the gods.

No mortal would be allowed to wear the ring of time. It would be an insult to the gods.

But there's nothing to stop it, just not allowed

That isn't what was said. He straight up told Trunks that only a Supreme Kai can used the Time Rings. Also, after Gowasu bowed his head to Trunks to apologized for his student's actions, why is he suddenly 'it's against the rules!'? After what happened, the very least he could do is allowed Trunks to used the Time Rings.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Has it occurred to you that not everyone speaks in hyper-literal terms. I know, that's quite a radical suggestion for internet conversation, but just consider it for a moment. Kaioshin are typically the only ones with Potara, yes? So isn't it a perfectly rational conclusion would be that when he said "You have to be a Kaioshin to use the time ring", he meant "You have to wear the earrings that only Kaioshin wear to use the time ring"? The answer is yes, it's totally plausible.

If that was the case, why wasn't Trunks allowed to used the Time Ring to escape, yet Gowasu had no problem with Goku and Vegeta fusing? It doesn't fit within the narrative since it was said that only Supreme Kais can used the Time Rings and fused forever, yet Black and Future Zamasu can used a Time Ring, but can't stay fused forever. These two statements can't really exists at the same time.

Cause plot convenience? You can "but why" everything to death, but it's just nitpicking. If we're going that far, we may as well ask "Why didn't Zamasu just wish for the erasure of all humans?" Roundabout things happen all the time to serve the plot, especially in Dragon Ball. Once again, it's nothing new.

[Zephyr]

In this very chapter, Gowasu said that Trunks can't used a Time Ring because he isn't a Supreme Kai

Where does he say this?

[Dbzfan94]

People are bitching about Super being bad now??

It never was that good, idk what you guys were expecting.

Oh look, another person stating their opinion as fact. This really is the Youtube comment section.

You say that, and then make a typical Youtube comment.


When did I even imply I was stating my opinion as fact? Oh right. I didn't. Does everyone have to explicitly state "in my opinion" every time they post a comment to not get criticized like this??

[Jinzoningen MULE]

When did I even imply I was stating my opinion as fact?

Some people don't have the capacity to understand when someone's giving an opinion unless it's explicitly stated. It's bizarre.

[mfwlegend3]

wew, these pages.

Anyways, have full raws released? I fell asleep. I've seen some new small pages have been leaked.