Training in base form verses training in super saiyan form.

[SkuLLR3D]

Which is better and why?
We always seem to see Goku and Vegeta training in base.
Does training in Super Saiyan form increase the multiplier? If so, why not just train for a super high multiplier?

[Darkprince410]

The multipliers are static. Training in the base form gives faster overall results because it's less work required. For example, if you were at 2 million in your base form (100 million in the Ssj form) and wanted to reach 150 million in the Ssj form, training in the base would only require the effort of growing by 1 million. If you were to train in the Ssj form though, you'd have to train for an increase of 50 million. Proportionally the increase would be the same, but the actual effort would logically be easier when going at it from the base form.

[SkuLLR3D]

Makes sense. I was just trying to make sense of how Vegeta in his rage state (against beerus) was able to surpass Goku's ssj3 form, when the multiplier for ssj3 is much greater.
Obviously vegeta trained in base to to get there (but with a rage boost)
But my confusion comes from Goku and Gohan attaining FPSSJ before the cell games. Didn't that increase the multiplier and not the base? Or was it simply a combination of both training in base AND training in ssj?
Or, am I just over analyzing a fictional series? Lol

[GodKaio-Ken]

Makes sense. I was just trying to make sense of how Vegeta in his rage state (against beerus) was able to surpass Goku's ssj3 form, when the multiplier for ssj3 is much greater.
Obviously vegeta trained in base to to get there (but with a rage boost)
But my confusion comes from Goku and Gohan attaining FPSSJ before the cell games. Didn't that increase the multiplier and not the base? Or was it simply a combination of both training in base AND training in ssj?
Or, am I just over analyzing a fictional series? Lol

From my understanding its not that they became stronger by mastering their state...their simply gained control over the same power they had before and learned not to waste their stamina.

Those two things have them the impression of being stronger when I'm reality the form had access to the same power.

Also I'm sure they also trained in base and were stronger due to that.

[SkuLLR3D]

Makes sense. I was just trying to make sense of how Vegeta in his rage state (against beerus) was able to surpass Goku's ssj3 form, when the multiplier for ssj3 is much greater.
Obviously vegeta trained in base to to get there (but with a rage boost)
But my confusion comes from Goku and Gohan attaining FPSSJ before the cell games. Didn't that increase the multiplier and not the base? Or was it simply a combination of both training in base AND training in ssj?
Or, am I just over analyzing a fictional series? Lol

From my understanding its not that they became stronger by mastering their state...their simply gained control over the same power they had before and learned not to waste their stamina.

Those two things have them the impression of being stronger when I'm reality the form had access to the same power.

Also I'm sure they also trained in base and were stronger due to that.

Ahh I fully understand now.
FPSSJ is just as strong, just better stamina control. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Hugo Boss]

I think it depends on their objective. If they are interested in building more power, training in their normal forms is more eficient. If they want to focus on ki control and stamina, training in their strongest forms will do better, I believe.

[cheddarsword]

I think it depends on their objective. If they are interested in building more power, training in their normal forms is more efficient. If they want to focus on Ki control and stamina, training in their strongest forms will do better, I believe.

If that's the case though, then isn't training in Super Saiyan Blue kinda pointless?

Perfect Ki control.

So... doesn't that mean that he's "mastered" SSB?

[Darkprince410]

So... doesn't that mean that he's "mastered" SSB?

No, what Ssj Blue offers as far as perfect control is different from the mastery that Goku and Gohan had with FpSsj. With Ssj Blue, the stamina drain is still considerable (hence Goku's reluctance to use it against Hit until trying to figure out how to counter Hit's Toki-Tobashi), but he has perfect control of the ki that is within his body. FpSsj is the opposite. It doesn't offer the perfect control that Ssj Blue does of the ki within their body (hence Goku never using it in conjunction with an Ssj form before then) but the stamina drain was near non-existent.

[cheddarsword]

So... doesn't that mean that he's "mastered" SSB?

No, what Ssj Blue offers as far as perfect control is different from the mastery that Goku and Gohan had with FpSsj. With Ssj Blue, the stamina drain is still considerable (hence Goku's reluctance to use it against Hit until trying to figure out how to counter Hit's Toki-Tobashi), but he has perfect control of the ki that is within his body. FpSsj is the opposite. It doesn't offer the perfect control that Ssj Blue does of the ki within their body (hence Goku never using it in conjunction with an Ssj form before then) but the stamina drain was near non-existent.

Well I did say it was "kinda" pointless to train in SSB. Not "totally".

Also, you would think that there would be some correlation between stamina use and Ki consumption. If you're low on stamina, your access to that Ki falters.

[Speedster]

The SSJ transformation is not a multiplier per see. That is just a misconception introduced by guidebooks and perpetuated by their worshippers who consider these guidebooks like gospels. The SSJ transformation is actually a boost. Sure enough when the SSJ boost is added to the base the sum appears as if it were the product of the base times a “multiplier” but the “multiplier” would only be static if the SSJ boost and the base received equal percentage gains thereafter. In the Cell arc, in their training in the RoSaT, the Saiyans trained as Super Saiyans as their goal was to maximise their SSJ boost. Vegeta and Cabba have roughly equal power level in their base forms but SSJ1 Vegeta is much stronger as his SSJ1 boost is larger.

[Hugo Boss]

I think it depends on their objective. If they are interested in building more power, training in their normal forms is more efficient. If they want to focus on Ki control and stamina, training in their strongest forms will do better, I believe.

If that's the case though, then isn't training in Super Saiyan Blue kinda pointless?

Why? They became Super Saiyan Blue, because they raised their ki as high as they could without letting it leak out. If they want to get used to the form, I think they should train in that form. The problem is to make minimal gains while doing so, but it has some importance.

For example, in the story they assumed Freeza went to Earth as soon as he got his golden form, without doing the basic lesson.