"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

Worst part of the chapter is Goku and Vegeta treating it like a game.

They were already beating down Black by himself. Of course these guys pull that crap. Its the same reason they didnt want to fuse again against Buu.

[TheMikado]

I have seen the latest chapter and it's a mediocre one, as the other chapters of this arc from Toyotaro.
The only things in this chapter I liked that I would have liked to see in the anime are:

- Trunks' line about Future Bulma. Really nice piece of dialogue
- Kaioshin comparing Vegetto's power to Beerus'. It would have been nice to get a direct comparision in the anime too
- Vegetto cutting Zamasu's arms off and delivering a epic line

As for everything else, anime episode 65 and 66 were a lot better than this chapter.
I wonder how Zamasu will be defeated in the manga, because it seems like in the anime Trunks will deal a finishing blow before Zeno completely wipes him out. I expect to see the Genki Dama sword in the manga too because it seems like too much of a big thing for it to be Toei's idea. Right now the only interest I have for the manga is too see the differences between it and the manga, and also the similarities.

By the way, I see no complains about Goku and Vegeta not getting damaged in their base by multiple attacks from Merged Zamasu. If it happened in the anime I bet there would be tons of videos of people enraged by "bad power scaling" and the episode thread on Kanzenshuu would have been locked because of all the rage and shit.
Is it because it's in a manga format so not many people notice? I believe the anime made a much better job at showcasing Goku and Vegeta's fight with Merged Zamasu and also threw Trunks there, which is a huge plus considering it was his arc.
I just can't stand how many people seem to criticize every single second of the anime while the manga gets a free pass on every error and mistake it does. It makes no sense for me. Where are the complains about the manga being Goku and Vegeta's show? Are there no complains just because the anime, which didn't have this problem, exists?

What do you mean "not getting damaged" and how is it any different than Cell Jrs kicking Z warrior butts or Buu vs base Vegeta?

If you follow *Z's logic* an attack from a being that powerful would wipe out Goku and Vegeta in their base form (they aren't even much stronger than they were in Buu arc in the manga). Instead, they weren't that much damaged and even kept fighting.

Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed their fight against Zamasu in the manga and I don't care if they weren't wiped out by his attacks when in their base, but I see no one mention manga's bad power scaling and logic, while everything the anime does always gets criticized.

Well we can always take a page from the anime book and say Zamasu was obviously holding back.

[Ki Breaker]

Well we can always take a page from the anime book and say Zamasu was obviously holding back.

This is basically the explanation for everything in Dragonball existence

[OLKv3]

Worst part of the chapter is Goku and Vegeta treating it like a game.

They were already beating down Black by himself. Of course these guys pull that crap. Its the same reason they didnt want to fuse again against Buu.

No, Goku made Vegeta fuse against Buu. He also wanted to fuse against Super Buu. He didn't fuse against Kid Buu because he thought it'd be an even fight, then he regretted it

Here it's not an even fight, and it's not a game. The world is in danger, Goku knew it and still treated it as no big deal, when he knew he was screwed the previous chapter. It was terrible writing for them

[dbzfan7]

I really liked this chapter. It avoids the heavy anime bullshit that kept making Merged Zamasu look so weak. Here it makes sense Vegetto dominates considering Zamasu isn't overpowered for some random reason. However I still do like the anime fight probably a bit more for being more even. No Kamehameha bullshit right after the father son gun...or the father son gun overwhelming who is supposed to be a lot stronger.

I adore how Zamasu here has so many more interesting attacks than in the anime. Sith lord included. Though I miss the ring of light which was awesome. Sad it ain't here. Definitely prefer that at least the weakness affects Zamasu too and not just Vegetto. Though not really surprised Vegetto would rather fight than wait out for Zamasu to defuse. Also he didn't get hit by the Final Kamehameha...and just come out unscathed cause. It's also clear just like in the anime, Zamasu was fucking with them the whole time, delighting in his power.

I could do without the retraces and copying of stuff from Z though...did kinda bother me. Also not sure if the blitz thing was a nod to Raditz or not. Personally I think Vegetto had more cool moments here, but the fight wasn't as fun as the anime as I said earlier for being one sided...even if it makes sense in this continuity at least.

Still fear for the ending as the Trunks bullshit is still possible. While less interesting in the manga, Trunks isn't a Gary Stu at least. So it sorta trades off a negative point that off set one another equally in disappointment for me.

Oh yeah still hate the 1 hour crap. All my other complaints still apply.

Here it's not an even fight, and it's not a game. The world is in danger, Goku knew it and still treated it as no big deal, when he knew he was screwed the previous chapter. It was terrible writing for them

He does that all the time. Even in the anime too instead of trying to put an end to Black he just has fun with him til he ends up getting sucked back to the future. Now treating it as a game when he clearly knows he can't win, that's something else entirely.

[zamasu121]

I really liked the part with Bulma, also Vegito cutting off Zamasu's arms was really good too, but the powerscaling in this chapter is pretty bad.

[OLKv3]

Here it's not an even fight, and it's not a game. The world is in danger, Goku knew it and still treated it as no big deal, when he knew he was screwed the previous chapter. It was terrible writing for them

He does that all the time. Even in the anime too instead of trying to put an end to Black he just has fun with him til he ends up getting sucked back to the future. Now treating it as a game when he clearly knows he can't win, that's something else entirely.

You're saying this as if Goku is written well in the anime. He isn't. It's out of character for him to do this when the stakes are high. It's a common complaint of the anime and now it's in the manga

[Kanassa]

Trunks isn't a Gary Stu at least.

He's not a stu in the anime either, there's more to it than just having bullshit power ups.

[dbzfan7]

Here it's not an even fight, and it's not a game. The world is in danger, Goku knew it and still treated it as no big deal, when he knew he was screwed the previous chapter. It was terrible writing for them

He does that all the time. Even in the anime too instead of trying to put an end to Black he just has fun with him til he ends up getting sucked back to the future. Now treating it as a game when he clearly knows he can't win, that's something else entirely.

You're saying this as if Goku is written well in the anime. He isn't. It's out of character for him to do this when the stakes are high. It's a common complaint of the anime and now it's in the manga

I do agree with you that they really should have fought together. I can see it argued the anime did better with less complaining from Vegeta. Though the manga did have a nice Vegeta and Trunks interaction. Though they did this in ROF too with Freeza, but the stakes here are way higher.

Trunks isn't a Gary Stu at least.

He's not a stu in the anime either, there's more to it than just having bullshit power ups.

He is such a Gary Stu in the anime to me at least. He feels exactly like someone's fan character inserted to help the heroes there. It's just unfortunate that having a much more grounded and logical Trunks in the manga, he doesn't have as much memorable stuff for the better or worse.

[Kanassa]

Trunks isn't a Gary Stu at least.

He's not a stu in the anime either, there's more to it than just having bullshit power ups.

He is such a Gary Stu in the anime to me at least. He feels exactly like someone's fan character inserted to help the heroes there. It's just unfortunate that having a much more grounded and logical Trunks in the manga, he doesn't have as much memorable stuff for the better or worse.

He'd of done a lot more if he was a Gary Stu, Zeno wouldn't of been needed if he was one.

[dbzfan7]

He's not a stu in the anime either, there's more to it than just having bullshit power ups.

He is such a Gary Stu in the anime to me at least. He feels exactly like someone's fan character inserted to help the heroes there. It's just unfortunate that having a much more grounded and logical Trunks in the manga, he doesn't have as much memorable stuff for the better or worse.

He'd of done a lot more if he was a Gary Stu, Zeno wouldn't of been needed if he was one.

A Gary Stu doesn't have to do everything. Making yourself important for asinine reasons, story telling be damned, is the sense of a self insert character who wants to be really really cool.

[MisteryOne]

I don't think anyone can deny that the power scale is also fucked off in the manga, trough its still better than the anime's. I mean, BASE Vegetto was able to greatly damage Merged Zamasu.

Vegetto is a hax monster, that didn't bug me at all. Merged Zamasu's power is held back by Zamasu

It still doesn't make sense. While Toyotaro went the logical route and didn't make Merged a lot more powerful than Black, he is still supposed to be at the very least as strong as SS Rosé Black, who is stronger than Vegeta SSG [SSB], who is stronger than Goku SSG from BoG, who is supposed to be stronger than Buu Saga Super Vegito, who is stronger than Buuhan, who is stronger than Base Vegito. It just doesn't work. Vegetto is a monster, but defineltly not God tier in base, in the manga version at least.

[IKevinX]

I didn't like Zamasu getting easily damaged by everything. The first damage he received from Goku's kamehameha probably comes from Toriyama as it was also present in the anime.
I prefer the anime version as Goku was completely depleted of energy afterwards. But here he later becomes SSJBlue after yet again.
Goku loses his arms after one Katchin attack, also happened in the anime with the FP Kamehameha.
Base Vegetto dealing damage should be completely impossible given what we know of SSJGods power and Fusion. But it's not like Zamasu was expecting two half dead saiyans to let out such power.

Then again the manga didn't have any kind of beam struggle, so that was all from toei. Vegeta and Trunks' Galick Gun was memorable, but Goku was forced to be the one who deals damage even though Vegeta is stronger than him at this point.
I prefer the manga version at keeping Zamasus' regeneration intact though, the anime making him half gooze was weird from the getgo. Plus something about that huge arm is funnylooking

Vegetto's Final Kamehameha wasn't present but it was hinted. The anime just supposedly made it seem useless (but I like the theory that Black died because of it) never happened in the manga. Then again I don't think it would have changed given Zamasu's immortality in the manga.

What I really dislike is Katchin. Seriously? You have the power that rivals Gods of Destruction and yet you keep around throwing metal blocks. At least the anime created some attacks.
And do you honestly think a bunch of katchin blocks could stop a Final Kamehameha? That was a bummer. But I guess Vegeta and Goku had to survive after defusing and it's better to have a condensed hundred buildings being throw at your face than a huge ass energy blast.

[Kanassa]

He is such a Gary Stu in the anime to me at least. He feels exactly like someone's fan character inserted to help the heroes there. It's just unfortunate that having a much more grounded and logical Trunks in the manga, he doesn't have as much memorable stuff for the better or worse.

He'd of done a lot more if he was a Gary Stu, Zeno wouldn't of been needed if he was one.

A Gary Stu doesn't have to do everything. Making yourself important for asinine reasons, story telling be damned, is the sense of a self insert character who wants to be really really cool.

Making a character important for asinine reasons is a small factor in a Stu, but that alone does not a Stu make.

[dbs fanboy]

I'm kinda dissapointed with Merged Zamasu's damage, i mean, i loved when he turned into that big monster, it was so cool seeing that the fact that Black and Zamasu fused is what actually weakened them somehow; i also loved how part of his ugly form represented his mental instability, maybe i'm lucky and it'll happen on the next chapter. Also fuck it i want the ending to be similar to the anime, not because i want fanservice bbut because i love the symbolism behind it and so far, i don't recall any symbolic moment in the manga.

[MisteryOne]

I'm kinda dissapointed with Merged Zamasu's damage, i mean, i loved when he turned into that big monster, it was so cool seeing that the fact that Black and Zamasu fused is what actually weakened them somehow; i also loved how part of his ugly form represented his mental instability, maybe i'm lucky and it'll happen on the next chapter. Also fuck it i want the ending to be similar to the anime, not because i want fanservice bbut because i love the symbolism behind it and so far, i don't recall any symbolic moment in the manga.

It definetly won't happen. Merged losing his inmortal body should not even be a thing to begin with.
I also doubt the Gendikama sword will happen since the only survivors on the planet are Mai, the saiyans and the Kaioshins.

[dbzfan7]

He'd of done a lot more if he was a Gary Stu, Zeno wouldn't of been needed if he was one.

A Gary Stu doesn't have to do everything. Making yourself important for asinine reasons, story telling be damned, is the sense of a self insert character who wants to be really really cool.

Making a character important for asinine reasons is a small factor in a Stu, but that alone does not a Stu make.

I wouldn't say it's a small factor, but if were arguing semantics, then I'll say Author Insert is what it feels like.

[dbs fanboy]

I'm kinda dissapointed with Merged Zamasu's damage, i mean, i loved when he turned into that big monster, it was so cool seeing that the fact that Black and Zamasu fused is what actually weakened them somehow; i also loved how part of his ugly form represented his mental instability, maybe i'm lucky and it'll happen on the next chapter. Also fuck it i want the ending to be similar to the anime, not because i want fanservice bbut because i love the symbolism behind it and so far, i don't recall any symbolic moment in the manga.

It definetly won't happen. Merged losing his inmortal body should not even be a thing to begin with.
I also doubt the Gendikama sword will happen since the only survivors on the planet are Mai, the saiyans and the Kaioshins.

Mah don't care if there's no sword, i just want a symbolic ending, hell maybe Toyo is able to handle #67 ideas much better by making the characters look more grim changing this into a fully dark ending.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Merged losing his inmortal body should not even be a thing to begin with.

Eh, I liked it. Fusions typically only bolster existing traits, though, so Goomasu could certainly be considered inconsistent. However, I thought of his immortality being an outside influence not inherent to his physiology, which is a valid angle to come from that makes Goomasu and Cloudmasu work.

I like both takes, though. Honestly couldn't choose my favorite unless I had a gun to my head.

[Lord Frieza]

Well its seems the manga is going out of its way to make me hate it, then again I should not be surprised should I? They screwed up Black for the most part so why would they not fail here to.

[spoiler]What kind of attack dose the Absolute Deity use? Oh I know I'll spam metal bricks, yeah that totally sells my divinity!

You know what I never really had a problem with the fight in the anime. YES Trunks is overpowered and the gang to a little to well, while in the manga they get curb-stomped, but I always chalked that up to Zamasu's overconfidence and the instability of his fusion. His attacks are for more interesting and the overall action was far more fun. Hell Zamaus is made to feel like less of a threat as he keeps getting holes punched in him by weaker characters who dont even have asspull transformations and attacks!

And then the real crowning turd in the water pipe, making Fused Zamasu just like every other villain who goes up against fusion! A total bitch who only survives the event because the fusion wore off! R U F#####G KIDDING ME! You took one of the most important cornerstones to one of Super's greatest fights, the fact that Fused Zamasu was actually powerful enough to challenge the old Goku/Vegeta trope, and threw it out the window!

Well color me Fury Red, the manga dose honestly have its good moments but really for everything it gets right it dose about 10 things that make the less logical anime seem better![/spoiler]