Majin Buu Saga Strength Guide

[dragonball0900]

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand. Pure Buu is not stronger than Super Buu. Every source that says that Pure Buu is the strongest is incorrect or just from the anime, which has things that are incorrect in what we call the "filler". Goku being afraid of fighting Super Buu truly indicates that SSJ3 Goku is way below Super Buu. Goku fought equally with Pure Buu, but he was far below Super Buu. Super Buu is stronger than Pure Buu that's stated through the manga.

[Darkprince410]

It doesn't say that Super Boo>Pure Boo verbatim, so no. The sources supplement each other, so the Dragon Ball forever article fits with Pure Boo being stated to be stronger.

It states that removing absorptions made Buu weaker, and Pure Buu is a Buu that has no absorptions in him. Therefore he's weaker than Evil Buu, who had absorptions in him.

So we already know that Pure Boo is stronger than Super Boo. Pure Boo gained heart by lowering his power through absorption. Both Fat Boo & Super Boo possess heart therefore both are weaker than Pure Boo.

Except that doesn't say that Pure Buu is stronger than Evil Buu. Kaioushin's line, in the context of what he said it, is that Buu has returned to the pure evil state he was in from before he had absorbed the Dai Kaioushin, which gave him a heart and weakened him. This is in reference to South Kaioushin Buu that became weakened though, not Pure Buu, as it was stated by Kaioushin only moments before that Buu was still pure evil after absorbing South Kaioushin, and that it was only the Dai Kaioushin that made him weaker.

Therefore, Evil Buu, who all the strength of South Kaioushin at his disposal but virtually no influence of the Dai Kaioushin at play (Piccolo refers to him as being pure evil). Evil Buu would have nearly the same strength as South Kaioushin Buu, who in turn was stronger than Pure Buu because it was only the Dai Kaioushin that weakened him.

And in no source is Super Boo stated to be stronger, while Pure Boo is stated to be stronger in both the anime and the manga as well as every source supplementing them.

We have multiple statements by Goku, without contradiction, that put Evil Buu as stronger. Fusion was needed in his mind to be able stand any chance against Evil Buu (and no actual evidence suggesting he was lying), as well as excited confirmation upon Pure Buu's formation that they had succeeded in getting him to a level they could handle on their own. That vs. the nothing that actually says Pure Buu is stronger in the manga (as established above, that line doesn't say Pure Buu is stronger).

It was flat out stated that Goku never intended to let Vegeta have a turn since he would've just gotten killed. Vegeta's willingness to fight is irrelevant. That's just his character. He had no problem going outside to fight Super Boo.

Vegeta did not know that until after Goku and Buu started fighting. His admission to that fact later, while watching the fight, verifies that. He still thought he would have stood some chance on his own in a fight until see just how powerful Buu actually was, thus his statement about Buu and Goku being stronger than he imagined was only in comparison to his own, and not comparing Buu to his earlier forms.

You're assuming authorial intent for no reason whatsoever. No evidence whatsoever that Toriyama's intention was to have Super Boo stronger, but Toei changed it. No evidence of different intentions, so the only conclusion that can be made is that Pure Boos superiority was made clearer in the anime.

When the entirety of the facts laid out in the original manga point to him going one direction with the story, but the anime taking it in a different direction, then I don't need to assume authorial intent when the intent is already clear.

Toriyama envisioned Boo to be the strongest specifically in his final, smallest form. You still haven't posted evidence for Super Boo being stronger, so this as open and shut as it gets.

You must be reading a different one than I'm reading, because not even that article indicates that's his notion. His response to the question was simply that he wanted to make characters strong even when their appearance disagreed with it. He didn't acknowledge any of those examples being given as actually being truthful (and you can argue that both Goku and Freeza, during the times they were in those specifically referred to states weren't the strongest, so why would Buu be?). Besides, even ignoring just regular Evil Buu, we still know Pure Buu isn't the strongest because Gotenks Buu, Gohan Buu, and South Kaioushin Buu are all undeniably stronger. Therefore the interviewer's question is wrong on a fundamental level.

The anime, manga, the Dragon Book and Toriyama's statement all say that Pure Boo is the strongest. End of discussion.

The anime is irrelevant since it contradicts the manga, the manga does not say Pure Buu is the strongest, there are other guide books that contradict the Dragon Book's statement, and Toriyama's own statement does not actually say Pure Buu is or was intended to be the strongest, just the far more vague "I liked to sometimes make my strong characters not look it".

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

It states that removing absorptions made Buu weaker, and Pure Buu is a Buu that has no absorptions in him. Therefore he's weaker than Evil Buu, who had absorptions in him.

Yeah it did. Removing absorptions did make him weaker. It's not wrong. Removing Fat Boo, which was the bit of heart he had left was stated to make him stronger in all sources, so what you're trying to imply is moot. Pure Boo's ki was stated to have been increasing after Fat Boo was ripped off in every media and it was never stated to decrease.
South Kai Boo's ki surged up, but it never surged up long enough to surpass Pure Boo's level. After that, Goku & Vegeta think that they can take Boo since they judge him based on his size.
The Daizenshuu states that the Boo that Goku killed(Pure Boo) was the strongest in the universe. No it doesn't mean "the strongest enemy" no that doesn't reference "Boo in general" since Boo wasn't always the strongest.
Thus Pure Boo was stronger than everyone including Ultimate Gohan.

Except that doesn't say that Pure Buu is stronger than Evil Buu. Kaioushin's line, in the context of what he said it, is that Buu has returned to the pure evil state he was in from before he had absorbed the Dai Kaioushin, which gave him a heart and weakened him. This is in reference to South Kaioushin Buu that became weakened though, not Pure Buu, as it was stated by Kaioushin only moments before that Buu was still pure evil after absorbing South Kaioushin, and that it was only the Dai Kaioushin that made him weaker.

Therefore, Evil Buu, who all the strength of South Kaioushin at his disposal but virtually no influence of the Dai Kaioushin at play (Piccolo refers to him as being pure evil). Evil Buu would have nearly the same strength as South Kaioushin Buu, who in turn was stronger than Pure Buu because it was only the Dai Kaioushin that weakened him.

The quote references Pure Boo since he's talking about the Boo that he's looking at. The Grand Kai made Pure Boo weaker than he was originally. South Kai Boo is irrelevant. The heart that Pure Boo gained lowered his power as stated. Does Super Boo still have some heart from the Grand Kai? Yes he does regardless of his evil, so he's weaker than Pure Boo. No ifs ands or buts.

We have multiple statements by Goku, without contradiction, that put Evil Buu as stronger. Fusion was needed in his mind to be able stand any chance against Evil Buu (and no actual evidence suggesting he was lying), as well as excited confirmation upon Pure Buu's formation that they had succeeded in getting him to a level they could handle on their own. That vs. the nothing that actually says Pure Buu is stronger in the manga (as established above, that line doesn't say Pure Buu is stronger).

We know he was lying since he stated that he could kill a stronger Boo.

Vegeta did not know that until after Goku and Buu started fighting. His admission to that fact later, while watching the fight, verifies that. He still thought he would have stood some chance on his own in a fight until see just how powerful Buu actually was, thus his statement about Buu and Goku being stronger than he imagined was only in comparison to his own, and not comparing Buu to his earlier forms.

That doesn't even logically follow. Vegeta having a rock paper scissors match doesn't mean that Vegeta thinks he can handle Boo. Goku at no point ever planned to switch, so he knew that Vegeta was nothing to Boo from the beginning. There isn't anything implying that Vegeta thought that he could beat Boo. Nothing hints that that Goku & Boo being stronger than Vegeta imagined is strictly in comparison to himself. That makes no sense at all. Though this point isn't even important, so I'll just drop it before even more reaching ensues.

When the entirety of the facts laid out in the original manga point to him going one direction with the story, but the anime taking it in a different direction, then I don't need to assume authorial intent when the intent is already clear.

That's your opinion. You think the story went in one direction. I said it's going in another. You can't prove his intent since you aren't the author. Period. Meanwhile the author already stated his intent himself and here you are trying to weasel away from it.

You must be reading a different one than I'm reading, because not even that article indicates that's his notion. His response to the question was simply that he wanted to make characters strong even when their appearance disagreed with it. He didn't acknowledge any of those examples being given as actually being truthful (and you can argue that both Goku and Freeza, during the times they were in those specifically referred to states weren't the strongest, so why would Buu be?). Besides, even ignoring just regular Evil Buu, we still know Pure Buu isn't the strongest because Gotenks Buu, Gohan Buu, and South Kaioushin Buu are all undeniably stronger. Therefore the interviewer's question is wrong on a fundamental level.

The interviewer asks why he made small characters like Pure Boo the strongest, not just strong in general and Toriyama stated why he did it. Completely open and shut. Not interested in the nonsense.
Gotenks Boo and Gohan Boo aren't separate forms of Boo. They're just Super Boo with someone absorbed. Just like Pure Boo being called the strongest Boo doesn't put him above South Kai Boo since South Kai Boo is just Pure Boo. Stop trying to weasel out of direct statements. This is getting stupid at this point.

The anime is irrelevant since it contradicts the manga, the manga does not say Pure Buu is the strongest, there are other guide books that contradict the Dragon Book's statement, and Toriyama's own statement does not actually say Pure Buu is or was intended to be the strongest, just the far more vague "I liked to sometimes make my strong characters not look it".

In your opinion and no other guidebooks contradicts the multiple sources flat out stating that Pure Boo is superior. The moment we start ignoring sources out of bias is the moment you concede, so this discussion is over. Everything that supplements the series is included, period. That isn't up for contention.

[Kaboom]

This is getting stupid at this point.

I agree on this general point at least. We've reached the point of accusations of bias and "you admitted to something I don't accept so you've already lost" nonsense.

This thread has already lost any trace of worth it originally had in record time.