"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[GodVegetto91]

So the entire chapter is out on that french dbz site. Anyone care to do a full translation of it?

[HeroR]

I actually expected Merged Zamasu to be as bland as the portrayals of Black and Zamasu. I was just commenting on how bland his manga counterpart is compared to his anime counterpart.

I honestly thought Merged Zamasu would be closer in personality to the anime version of himself since Merged Zamasu was more Future Zamasu than Black. So, an egoistical jerkass who has a breakdown the moment things don't his way. He does it here, but he isn't really portrayed as powerful since we didn't get a lot of screen time of him just wrecking stuff like Episode 65.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I still prefer the manga overall. It's not that I want to. I'm completely open to the anime being great, and fully admit when I feel it has done something better than Toyotaro's print adaptation. However, even though it is flawed itself, I just feel like it's the stronger product in the grand scheme for the NEW material.

This post is from a completely different thread of a different subject, but the underlying premise is the same and it saves me from having to do some extra work.
[spoiler]

I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.

Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.

If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.

An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.

[/spoiler]
The anime is traditionally really good at getting you emotionally invested in the content they're trying to tell. But sometimes that works to their detriment. The choices they make to reach that emotional spot aren't narratively sound, and throw way too many rules, that the franchise used to establish it's world, under the bus. That's not exactly a bad thing in moderation. Picking a rule here and there, then shattering it to circumvent expectations can be a good writing tool. Toriyama used it pretty effectively through out his manga, but the anime version of Super basically did it at every chance they got during the Future Trunks Arc.

Toyotaro's manga at least feels more like a continuation of what has been the Dragon Ball world to me for so long. The anime, while extremely fun to watch with most episodes, just lacks the consistency to keep me fully invested. It feels like a lite version of a Gainax/Trigger series or something that just happens to use DB's characters. Where whatever the writers want to happen will.

That's not to say you can't prefer whatever version you like. This is just my opinion, and I'm in no way trying to force anyone to agree with me. Just enjoy what you want to enjoy!

[HeroR]

Merged Zamasu utilizing Katchin cubes is kinda silly and really unimaginative when compared to the techniques he got in the other telling of the story. It would be like if Piccolo fought by throwing hour glasses at people just because we saw him do it once. Overall though I do like that he got to use pretty much every ability that Kaioshin and Kibito used in this version. I can only hope that Zamasu fights with the cubes in the next Xenoverse.

Okay, I want to see that now.

As soon as he named the moves after coming up with them out of nowhere, I knew they were a Toei creation. They were so un Dragon Ball like that I'm surprised people thought it'd be in the manga

Who cares if it was created by Toriyama. Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain. Fans around here are so concern about 'is this Toriyama' that it is getting in the way of 'if the story is good'. Honestly, I loved Merged Zamasu's attack because it wasn't like Dragon Ball. I don't want Super to just try to copy the past or try to be Toriyama. Only Toriyama can be Toriyama. It should try to be its own thing, not copy a 20 years old manga.

[dbzfan7]

I still prefer the manga overall. It's not that I want to. I'm completely open to the anime being great, and fully admit when I feel it has done something better than Toyotaro's print adaptation. However, even though it is flawed itself, I just feel like it's the stronger product in the grand scheme for the NEW material.

This post is from a completely different thread of a different subject, but the underlying premise is the same and it saves me from having to do some extra work.
[spoiler]

I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.

Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.

If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.

An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.

[/spoiler]
The anime is traditionally really good at getting you emotionally invested in the content they're trying to tell. But sometimes that works to their detriment. The choices they make to reach that emotional spot aren't narratively sound, and throw way too many rules, that the franchise used to establish it's world, under the bus. That's not exactly a bad thing in moderation. Picking a rule here and then, then shattering it to circumvent expectations can be a good writing tool. Toriyama used it pretty effectively through out his manga, but the anime version of Super basically did it at every chance they got during the Future Trunks Arc.

Toyotaro's manga at least feels more like a continuation of what has been the Dragon Ball world to me for so long. The anime, while extremely fun to watch with most episodes, just lacks the consistency to keep me fully invested. It feels like a lite version of a Gainax/Trigger series or something that just happens to use DB's characters. Where whatever the writers want to happen will.

I couldn't agree more. But now I have to sig that post just to help get that point across that so many seem to miss.

[mfwlegend3]

Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain.

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

[batistabus]

-snip-

Totally agree.

Because the manga exists, and because it's so good, I am able to enjoy the anime much more than I would be able to otherwise. If things are dumb and don't make sense in the anime, more often then not, I know it's Toei's doing. I don't let it bother me because I know the manga is going to tell the story in a much more thoughtful, concise, and consistent way. That let's me fully enjoy the spectacle bits while I ignore things that don't work.

Honestly, if we were only given the anime without clues into Toriyama's outline, I don't think I would be able to enjoy Super nearly as much. I would still watch it, but I wouldn't be as excited or invested.

[The gr]

Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain.

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

Anime merged zamasu:jrpg boss

Manga: platforms boss

[Kanassa]

Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain.

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

Anime merged zamasu:jrpg boss

Manga: platforms boss

I got it now, manga Zamasu is a Sonic the Hedgehog boss!

[The gr]

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

Anime merged zamasu:jrpg boss

Manga: platforms boss

I got it now, manga Zamasu is a Sonic the Hedgehog boss!

more like Mario tbh, they should have been creative with the cubes like let them have Spike or one of the block blow up

[HeroR]

Anime merged zamasu:jrpg boss

Manga: platforms boss

Pretty much and unfortunately for Merged Zamasu he's Bowser from Mario Galaxy 2.

[Cipher]

Everyone's missing that Toyotaro telegraphed this Katchin barrage back in the Bobbidi flashback chapter.

Bookends, people.

[GodVegetto91]

Can anyone tell me is Vegeta a SSJ God at the beginning of this chapter or a SSJ Blue? Because i can't tell the difference given that it's a black and white manga.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Can anyone tell me is Vegeta a SSJ God at the beginning of this chapter or a SSJ Blue? Because i can't tell the difference given that it's a black and white manga.

He's Red. The eyes give it away.

[SansrivaaL]

Can anyone tell me is Vegeta a SSJ God at the beginning of this chapter or a SSJ Blue? Because i can't tell the difference given that it's a black and white manga.

He's Red. The eyes give it away.

Also the glitter like sparks in his aura.

[GodVegetto91]

Can anyone tell me is Vegeta a SSJ God at the beginning of this chapter or a SSJ Blue? Because i can't tell the difference given that it's a black and white manga.

He's Red. The eyes give it away.

Okay thanks.

[OLKv3]

Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain.

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

I don't know what he's whining about, I never said which was better than the other. All I said was I'm surprised people thought his anime attacks would be in the manga, since they're 100% Toei creations

[KentalSSJ6]

Just because it isn't Toriyama doesn't mean it isn't cool. Cooler than thrown steal blocks a Mario villain.

Funny, I essentially thought the same when I first saw the raws. Merged Zamasu felt more like a final boss from a Nintendo 64 game.

I don't know what he's whining about, I never said which was better than the other. All I said was I'm surprised people thought his anime attacks would be in the manga, since they're 100% Toei creations

Videogames need SOMETHING to work with.

[HeroR]

I don't know what he's whining about, I never said which was better than the other. All I said was I'm surprised people thought his anime attacks would be in the manga, since they're 100% Toei creations

And again, so what? Even if one didn't think the manga version of Merged Zamasu would be a RPG boss, you would think Toyo would be more creative with the Supreme God and he wouldn't be reduced to throwing steel bricks.

[OLKv3]

I don't know what he's whining about, I never said which was better than the other. All I said was I'm surprised people thought his anime attacks would be in the manga, since they're 100% Toei creations

And again, so what? Even if one didn't think the manga version of Merged Zamasu would be a RPG boss, you would think Toyo would be more creative with the Supreme God and he wouldn't be reduced to throwing steel bricks.

What do you mean "so what"? You're getting defensive over nothing that's an insult. Try reading instead of taking everything as an insult. Read it slowly without your "MUST DEFEND TOEI AT ALL COSTS" blinders and think about what you're reading before you respond next time

It'd be like expecting SSG to make a return in the anime when it's clearly a Toyotaro creation