Is it really hard to believe that Future Zamasu can go toe to toe with SSJ Blue?

[pacz360]

1.present zamasu he defeated not f.zamasu
2. Same trunks that blocked that intended for ssjb goku and even kicked ssjr black into a building ya know the same guy who stomped his ass in base alone.
3.You mean a pissed off,enraged Ssjb goku that even for a moment made black look like a fool.
Same ssj2 trunks that got stronger than last time also its been stated that drops his guard everytime he's been attack stated by trunks and goku plus trunks had to get away from him resorted to use all of his power to put him down before black interfer
4. Watched it blocked trunks instead of getting instant ko than later along with black knocked the ssjb outta of vegeta than
latter in another combination attack hurted trunks in his ikari form.
5.same as 3 he drops his guard everytime he's gets hit why are you ignoring this.
6.the dude even kicked vegeta outta of focus for a second before running going back to black.
Seriously quit with the mental gymanstics here he's blue level while he's inferior to black,goku,vegeta and trunks in his rage form doesn't mean he's not in their level especially where he can hold his against them to a degree and still be a threat to him.
Sometimes i question the logic of this fanbase with shit like this.

1. They're the same. Aside from the immortality there's no difference. Neither version is SSJB level as both are inferior to Super Saiyan 2 both in the anime and in the manga.

2. Trunks couldn't sense God Ki he was inferior to Base Goku in the Resurrection F saga because of this. He was weaker than SSJ2 Goku in the anime and on par with SSJ3 Goku in the manga. That's about it.

3. Nah he blitzed right past Zamasu but Black was able to hold his own. He held his hold and took the shots, Zamasu couldn't even fight back he was done in twice easily.

4. Yeah combination attacks. He alone does diddly squat in the couple times he actually does hit someone.

5. Zamasu let's his guard down after an attack but that didn't stop him from immediately being hit and taking that attack and being taken out before the bigger fight involving Black. Afterwards a drained Trunks as just a Super Saiyan held his own against Zamasu who still barely hit him and did no damage anyway.

6. A surprise cheap shot on someone who wasn't expecting it, that's nothing considering what Sorbet did.

So yeah essentially he is no match for of these people, immortality is the reason he hangs in there otherwise he'd have been killed outright by SSJ2 Trunks when he stabbed him. He's stated to be weaker than Trunks in the manga, this would be true for the anime too as is shown.

And Trunks is obviously not Blue level until his significant boost to Rage form which only then allowed him to fight back properly.

1.bullshit goku straight up notice the difference between the two as soon as they clash if f.zam was ssj2 at best he would've gotten treated the same as trunks did against ssjb vegeta you have nothing to support this.
2.So ssj2 trunks who blocked a blow from Rose that was intended for ssjb gokuand kicked him into building where before he couldn't do shit to base black is at the same strength before didn't stronger...okay
3.so black is stronger than f.zam what's your point?
4.trading blows with ssjb goku and even holding him down for blacks Kamehameha isn't nothing so shy keep ignoring this.
5 f.zam drops his guard multiple times due to the fact that's he's immortal.
and by that logic fat buu would've been killed by majin vegeta explosion without his regeneration along with super buu who had bullets go through him.
6.vegeta had his guard up and didn't lower it like goku did with sorbet.
Manga Power levels=/ anime power level don't know why your trying to use that considering the massive difference between the two so why trying to use that at all is beyond me especially where goku in ssj3 one shotted trunks while in the manga they were equal and goku had to use ssjgod to beat him.
F.zam was able to trade blows with ssjb goku,hold him him down along with trunks for blacks Kamehameha if wasn't strong enough either of them could've blown him with ease,be involved in several combination attacks with black and he wasn't in that tier of power and there be no use of him being there,block a blow from goku during the second fight before black attacked him, and many more.
And mind you one kick from base black was strong enough to kick ssjb vegeta away by that logic ssjr black should've crippled ssjb goku in one blow.
F.zamasu is pretty much a low tier ssjb level fighter while inferior to goku,vegeta, rage trunks and black in pure power he's not far off from where he can be considered dead weight by black and a non threat by them. immortality doesn't increase your speed and power it just makes you very hard to kill.
Garlic jr was immortal but does that mean he can fight ssj vegito? No.
So anime he's god tier level so don't know why you trying to insist otherwise where it's clear as day.

[pacz360]

Super is full of inconsistency. That is why I try to not take any one battle or scenario too literally but how it fits in to the entire recent body of work. It's not just Zamasu who causes issues, its Trunks as well no doubt.

Yeah heres the thing from my perspective.

I am not saying Zamasu is equal to SSB Goku, if you lined them all up in a nice row Black, Goku and Vegeta are all stronger then Zamasu. What I am not buying is the idea that Zamasu is no stronger then when he battled ss2 Goku.

I have looked at every argument here and not one of them holds up as there is information and implications in the story that provide more then adequate to override them.

The real kicker for me is people insist on talking about Zamasu fighting Trunks ans comparing the two, when there are many logical reasons within the narrative for Zamasu to be stronger then he was while the level of total bullshit the writers us to keep Trunks relevent in story is shocking.

Zamasu is a powerful kaioshin who has had 17 years to improve plus his time with Black, Trunks mean while pulls off leaps in power in a matter days, hours or even minuets with zero hinting, suggestion or possibility.

How are the two even in the same ball park?

Oh he is more than likely much stronger than when they sparred. Future Zamasu was recruited into the whole thing and most likely did training in those years of course.

As a hypothetical situation lets say SSJ2 Goku was fighting himself as SSB Goku somehow....I don't believe SSJ2 Goku could even land a hit on SSB Goku. For that reason I'd have to guess Future Zamasu is probably somewhere -around- SSJ3 more or less but with immortality and a highly skilled mind. People should remember technique doesn't make your strength higher...it means you have awesome technique. Future Zamasu may be an incredible prodigy in technical terms which would help him further bridge the gap.

Ssj3 level won't let you trade blows with god tier level fighters without getting steamed roll.

[OLKv3]

The anime puts Future Zamasu on a Godly level.also immortality does not mean that you get a boost in speed and power.If Piccolo Jr. was immortal he would not be able to go hand to hand against Golden Freeza because although Piccolo cannot die the gap between them is still astronomical .

But The manga shows Zamasu far weaker than the Gods,(although he did dodge a hit from SSB goku)Goku using just SSJG was more than enough to deal with Zamasu

So it's in the Manga Zamasu is only as strong as Trunks which would be SSJ3 Tier

But in the Managa he's SSGSS levels quite a difference to say the least

And then in the very same episode, he got beat up by SSJ2 Trunks...
and every episode after this had him getting rag dolled by SSB characters.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Zamasu & Future Zamasu are exactly the same outside of immortality. Weaker than SSJ2 Trunks whom is trash to Rose and Blue power wise.

[pacz360]

Zamasu & Future Zamasu are exactly the same outside of immortality. Weaker than SSJ2 Trunks whom is trash to Rose and Blue power wise.

https://youtu.be/S_tvepM9Q8w P. Zamasu Vs ssj2 goku

https://youtu.be/OrhpYikwimw F.zamasu Vs ssjb goku
How are they same in power where evidence says otherwise.
And mind you trunks blocked a blow from ssjr rose black and kicked his ass into a building while this happen to him when they fought before going back into the past. https://youtu.be/gHnKNHc-ls0

[MagmonKai]

Zamasu & Future Zamasu are exactly the same outside of immortality. Weaker than SSJ2 Trunks whom is trash to Rose and Blue power wise.

That is simply not true.

[dbgtFO]

Zamasu & Future Zamasu are exactly the same outside of immortality. Weaker than SSJ2 Trunks whom is trash to Rose and Blue power wise.

That is simply not true.

It's somewhere in between false and true. There's no clear answer, no acknowledgement of Zamasu supposedly powering up so much, if that's the case.
Sure Goku felt something was different, but doesn't say what and given the reveal later on, it seems the intent was for that to be Zamas' immortality, as there's nothing else drawn attention to.
It's quintessential Toei writing; everyone can put up a fight against everyone, if the writers want a grand spectacle of a fight, rather than some one-sided beatdown, that would accurately portray the gaps in power.
I call it video-game logic(ie. in a fighting video-game every character can beat every character, only the Sparking/BT series making joke characters like Mr. Satan incredibly ineffective), have done so even way before Super was even a thought in anyone's head, because it's so typical Toei writing.

[Bullza]

1.bullshit goku straight up notice the difference between the two as soon as they clash if f.zam was ssj2 at best he would've gotten treated the same as trunks did against ssjb vegeta you have nothing to support this.
2.So ssj2 trunks who blocked a blow from Rose that was intended for ssjb gokuand kicked him into building where before he couldn't do shit to base black is at the same strength before didn't stronger...okay
3.so black is stronger than f.zam what's your point?
4.trading blows with ssjb goku and even holding him down for blacks Kamehameha isn't nothing so shy keep ignoring this.
5 f.zam drops his guard multiple times due to the fact that's he's immortal.
and by that logic fat buu would've been killed by majin vegeta explosion without his regeneration along with super buu who had bullets go through him.
6.vegeta had his guard up and didn't lower it like goku did with sorbet.
Manga Power levels=/ anime power level don't know why your trying to use that considering the massive difference between the two so why trying to use that at all is beyond me especially where goku in ssj3 one shotted trunks while in the manga they were equal and goku had to use ssjgod to beat him.
F.zam was able to trade blows with ssjb goku,hold him him down along with trunks for blacks Kamehameha if wasn't strong enough either of them could've blown him with ease,be involved in several combination attacks with black and he wasn't in that tier of power and there be no use of him being there,block a blow from goku during the second fight before black attacked him, and many more.
And mind you one kick from base black was strong enough to kick ssjb vegeta away by that logic ssjr black should've crippled ssjb goku in one blow.
F.zamasu is pretty much a low tier ssjb level fighter while inferior to goku,vegeta, rage trunks and black in pure power he's not far off from where he can be considered dead weight by black and a non threat by them. immortality doesn't increase your speed and power it just makes you very hard to kill.
Garlic jr was immortal but does that mean he can fight ssj vegito? No.
So anime he's god tier level so don't know why you trying to insist otherwise where it's clear as day.

1. He was treated the same as Trunks. Useless and got stomped on every occasion. You just put too much emphasis on a couple gifs. You also assume the difference between the two was one of strength something not stated anywhere and not even implied to be true.

2. No he's stronger, just one day's worth of image training stronger. In other words insignificantly stronger. Trunks was strong enough to force Base Black to defend himself before so it's not like it was that helpless.

3. Base Black is stronger than Zamasu. Base Black is also not Blue level.

4. He didn't trade blows with Goku. He barely hit him one time before being stomped on every other occasion alone. Trading blows implies an equal back and forth which obviously didn't happen.

5. Well yeah Buu would have died but he was powerful enough that Vegetables had to give his life to do that attack in the first place. Trunks would have just killed him with a sword, he didn't let his guard down because he was dodging attacks before he was caught. His guard was up.

6. He wasn't watching or focusing on Zamasu who simply hit him from behind that briefly knocked Vegeta off his line of movement for 2 seconds. Then he got stomped by Goku again.

There is no massive difference between the two. The intent is the same, in both the manga and anime Zamasu is weaker than Trunks who is weaker than Base Black who is not Blue level therefore Zamasu obviously isn't Blue level.

Garlic Jr couldn't fight Vegito and Zamasu couldn't fight SSJB Goku. Between Zamasu, Android 27 and Trunks I don't know why you're so eager to see all these characters at Blue level. None of them are.

[Ajay]

pacz360:

Please watch your attitude. Beginning posts with "bullshit" isn't exactly a good way to get people to engage with you. Being passionate is great, but when that slips into being rude and dismissive, you're not putting that passion to its best use.

As always, please do take care with basic grammar. Capital letters, proper punctuation, and all that good stuff. It goes a long way in helping others digest what you have to say with ease.

Thank you.

[dbs fanboy]

Honestly for me it is. I mean, later in the anime he could be defeated by a ssj2 Trunks (power wise) and demolished by someone on Goku's level, also, we didn't see him training or any sort of thing, he just wished to be inmortal and he desired no more as he thought that he would be untouchable after having his wish fullfilled.

The only time he was "on par with the blue" was for like a few seconds in ep 57 and it could be taken as him holding his own but not necessarily being as strong as a ssj blue. Or it could be just a power level inconsistence.

[pacz360]

Why are people using trunks as negative against him despite in that same episode ssj2 trunks blocked a blow from ssjr black and traded blows with him and kicked him into a building where black stomped him in his base form with utter ease.
Trunks gotten stronger from his training with vegeta so why are you trying to assume trunks ssj2 is as powerful as it was before where i remind you was treated like garbage by base black in the anime.
Manga power levels differ from the anime especially where ssj god wasn't absorbed by goku in the manga, black turning ssj,ssj3 goku and ssj2 trunks being equal,etc.

[Yedis]

SSJ2 Trunks is strong enough to block an attack from Rose Goku Black and send him flying with a kick

Zamasu is strong enough to exchange fists with with SSB Goku and to send him flying down.


At Least in the Anime, SSJ2 tier is not as weak as people make it seem. I doubt a fighter has to be at SSB level to land a punch on someone who is SSB level.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Yeah heres the thing from my perspective.

I am not saying Zamasu is equal to SSB Goku, if you lined them all up in a nice row Black, Goku and Vegeta are all stronger then Zamasu. What I am not buying is the idea that Zamasu is no stronger then when he battled ss2 Goku.

I have looked at every argument here and not one of them holds up as there is information and implications in the story that provide more then adequate to override them.

The real kicker for me is people insist on talking about Zamasu fighting Trunks ans comparing the two, when there are many logical reasons within the narrative for Zamasu to be stronger then he was while the level of total bullshit the writers us to keep Trunks relevent in story is shocking.

Zamasu is a powerful kaioshin who has had 17 years to improve plus his time with Black, Trunks mean while pulls off leaps in power in a matter days, hours or even minuets with zero hinting, suggestion or possibility.

How are the two even in the same ball park?

Oh he is more than likely much stronger than when they sparred. Future Zamasu was recruited into the whole thing and most likely did training in those years of course.

As a hypothetical situation lets say SSJ2 Goku was fighting himself as SSB Goku somehow....I don't believe SSJ2 Goku could even land a hit on SSB Goku. For that reason I'd have to guess Future Zamasu is probably somewhere -around- SSJ3 more or less but with immortality and a highly skilled mind. People should remember technique doesn't make your strength higher...it means you have awesome technique. Future Zamasu may be an incredible prodigy in technical terms which would help him further bridge the gap.

Ssj3 level won't let you trade blows with god tier level fighters without getting steamed roll.

SSB Goku isnt close to Beerus though logically he should be by this point. The fact that SSJ3 Goku couldnt touch Beerus doesn't mean much for other fighters.