Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

I completely forgot the episode was today.

The preview is interesting. So Gohan needs Super Saiyan to fight Piccolo now? But he was alright using Base before in the Universe 6 saga.

Piccolo should still be below Buu surely so if Gohan needs to use Super Saiyan against him then I suppose that wipes out the idea that Base Gohan would be above Buu.

That would almost suggest that Gohan is essentially around his normal Buu saga level.

Is Goku in Base form stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan perhaps? After all he did have an advantage over Bergamo whereas it required Super Saiyan for Gohan to be a match for Lavender.

The confusion deepens.

Not likely since everyone has gotten stronger since the Champa Saga so why would every suddenly decreased in power. Even then, Piccolo was weaker than Super Saiyan Gohan even the Buu Saga, as rusty as he is, so even if we pretend Gohan has the same base form, Piccolo got a major jump. And we know that Gohan doesn't have the same base form from the Buu Saga since his base was higher than Piccolo's during the Resurrection 'F' Saga.

Watch episode 75 again. SSJ Gohan fought on par with SSJ Goku.

It was a Spar just like with Krillin, Buu etc.. nothing more than that. SS1 Goku wouldn't be on par with a Rusty Gohan... makes Zero sense. Piccolo was <<< 4th form Frost who was <<< SS1 Goku.

Piccolo trained hard the past year. Goku was not going easy on Gohan in episode 75.

What are you basing that on? Goku was going 'hard' against Krillin and went Super Saiyan. So does that mean that Krillin is now stronger than base form Goku?

On top of that, it was never said that Gohan was weaker than his Buu Saga self. All that was said that Gohan would surpassed himself, meaning he will be much stronger than he was during the Buu Saga. As far as we know, he is stronger than he was in the Buu Saga already, but not by much.

[OLKv3]

Ok now I am convinced it's just an anime thing where Goku has to go Blue for no reason all the time XD. I bet if the manga covers it, he probably won't be using it nearly as much at every opportunity.

Surprised it took you this long to realize it. It's the same thing they did with SSJ4.

[ZombieVito]

What are you basing that on? Goku was going 'hard' against Krillin and went Super Saiyan. So does that mean that Krillin is now stronger than base form Goku?

On top of that, it was never said that Gohan was weaker than his Buu Saga self. All that was said that Gohan would surpassed himself, meaning he will be much stronger than he was during the Buu Saga. As far as we know, he is stronger than he was in the Buu Saga already, but not by much.

Well the fight itself looked pretty even to me and Goku even lost track of what he was doing and trashed the field but I suppose he could have been holding back. It's not impossible.

I never said Gohan was weaker than his Boo arc self. I even have him at the same level he was back then in the RoF arc.

I'm starting to think that he's going to get a stronger Ultimate form next episode since if he isn't that much stronger than his Boo arc self then his Ultimate form would be really weak. SSB is just way to far from that level.

[HeroR]

What are you basing that on? Goku was going 'hard' against Krillin and went Super Saiyan. So does that mean that Krillin is now stronger than base form Goku?

On top of that, it was never said that Gohan was weaker than his Buu Saga self. All that was said that Gohan would surpassed himself, meaning he will be much stronger than he was during the Buu Saga. As far as we know, he is stronger than he was in the Buu Saga already, but not by much.

Well the fight itself looked pretty even to me and Goku even lost track of what he was doing and trashed the field but I suppose he could have been holding back. It's not impossible.

I never said Gohan was weaker than his Boo arc self. I even have him at the same level he was back then in the RoF arc.

I'm starting to think that he's going to get a stronger Ultimate form next episode since if he isn't that much stronger than his Boo arc self then his Ultimate form would be really weak. SSB is just way to far from that level.

That is the problem, 'it looks pretty even'. If you didn't know how strong Krillin was and saw his fight with Goku in Episode 84 by itself, you can easily draw the conclusion that Krillin was up to par with base form Goku. He even lost track of some of Krillin's attacks. Goku is a terrible measuring stick since he sandbag all the time. That is how you have him using Super Saiyan against Krillin, then Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, yet when he fights Skinny Buu who is faster and stronger, he doesn't bother to transform.

Why would he be at the 'exact' same level as Resurrection 'F'. We know Gohan trained again with Piccolo for at least eight months before the Champa Saga. So why would his power remained exactly the same? We also know that isn't the case since Gohan in Resurrection 'F' could barely hold Super Saiyan, yet Gohan while poison had no problem doing it now.

[Bullza]

If Piccolo proves superior to Super Saiyan Gohan then he has had a major bump because he was nowhere close to as strong as Super Saiyan Gohan in the Resurrection F saga.

There Gohan beat Tagoma in like two hits. That was the full power Tagoma too. The non powered up Tagoma had Piccolo complete helpless.

I'm starting to think that he's going to get a stronger Ultimate form next episode since if he isn't that much stronger than his Boo arc self then his Ultimate form would be really weak.

He will, it was pretty much stated already. I had posted a link to it already just before this new episode came out. Said something about him drawing out even more power than back then.

[ZombieVito]

That is the problem, 'it looks pretty even'. If you didn't know how strong Krillin was and saw his fight with Goku in Episode 84 by itself, you can easily draw the conclusion that Krillin was up to par with base form Goku. He even lost track of some of Krillin's attacks. Goku is a terrible measuring stick since he sandbag all the time. That is how you have him using Super Saiyan against Krillin, then Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, yet when he fights Skinny Buu who is faster and stronger, he doesn't bother to transform.

Why would he be at the 'exact' same level as Resurrection 'F'. We know Gohan trained again with Piccolo for at least eight months before the Champa Saga. So why would his power remained exactly the same? We also know that isn't the case since Gohan in Resurrection 'F' could barely hold Super Saiyan, yet Gohan while poison had no problem doing it now.

I meant having Gohan in the RoF arc the same power as the Boo arc.

He will, it was pretty much stated already. I had posted a link to it already just before this new episode came out. Said something about him drawing out even more power than back then.

Excellent.

Piccolo being this strong makes me think that Frost wasn't that weak while facing him. I always had him at around 40% of stamina but I'm thinking on bumping him to 55 or 60%.

[apex_pretador]

So how strong is Gohan?

Lavender should be atleast comparable to Basil, who was around super perfect cell level. Base gohan while poisoned and blind was able to fight Lavender evenly. That means Gohan in base should be perfect cell tier, but that means his super saiyan would be stronger than ever, even more so than mystic gohan.

Or could it be that his super saiyan doesn't work anywhere near as effeciently as it should?

[HeroR]

I meant having Gohan in the RoF arc the same power as the Boo arc.

He will, it was pretty much stated already. I had posted a link to it already just before this new episode came out. Said something about him drawing out even more power than back then.

Excellent.

Piccolo being this strong makes me think that Frost wasn't that weak while facing him. I always had him at around 40% of stamina but I'm thinking on bumping him to 55 or 60%.

If you mean Super Saiyan Gohan is about as strong as Ultimate Gohan from the Buu Saga, I do mostly agree since it seem hinted that Gohan needed Super Saiyan to gain his true power again and couldn't hold it for long. Plus, he had his Ultimate form when he faced Beerus, which was only a year ago so his power shouldn't have dropped that drastically.

Again, Piccolo got stronger since his battle with Frost, so you can't just dump current Piccolo into the Champa and claimed that he was always that strong. The fact is, we have no clue how strong Piccolo is. The best we could guess in the Champa Saga was that he seemed even to stronger with base from Gohan. The great thing about this next episode is that we finally get some good scaling on Piccolo for the first time in decades, especially since fans still think he's weaker than Perfect Cell.

So how strong is Gohan?

Lavender should be atleast comparable to Basil, who was around super perfect cell level. Base gohan while poisoned and blind was able to fight Lavender evenly. That means Gohan in base should be perfect cell tier, but that means his super saiyan would be stronger than ever, even more so than mystic gohan.

Or could it be that his super saiyan doesn't work anywhere near as effeciently as it should?

I can easily see Gohan as he is right now being a little stronger than he was during the Buu Saga with the next episode having him completely shatter that level.

Basil is easily stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Dabura was around that level and got manhandled by Buu who wasn't even trying. He didn't even touched him outside of one sneak attack and Buu danced around him. Even if Fat Buu is weaker than before, he had to used his full power or closed to it to take down Basil. At his weaker, Basil would be at least Majin Vegeta's level.

[apex_pretador]

Plus, he had his Ultimate form when he faced Beerus, which was only a year ago so his power shouldn't have dropped that drastically.

So how strong is Gohan?

Lavender should be atleast comparable to Basil, who was around super perfect cell level. Base gohan while poisoned and blind was able to fight Lavender evenly. That means Gohan in base should be perfect cell tier, but that means his super saiyan would be stronger than ever, even more so than mystic gohan.

Or could it be that his super saiyan doesn't work anywhere near as effeciently as it should?

I can easily see Gohan as he is right now being a little stronger than he was during the Buu Saga with the next episode having him completely shatter that level.

Basil is easily stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Dabura was around that level and got manhandled by Buu who wasn't even trying. He didn't even touched him outside of one sneak attack and Buu danced around him. Even if Fat Buu is weaker than before, he had to used his full power or closed to it to take down Basil. At his weaker, Basil would be at least Majin Vegeta's level.

BoG ultimate gohan could have been weaker than buu arc ultimate gohan.

Dabura was not SPC level. He was slightly stronger than perfect cell.

The recent herms's translation confirms that Gohan is weaker than his buu arc self, as he i called weak and rusty, and will "even surpass his buu arc self".

[ZombieVito]

If you mean Super Saiyan Gohan is about as strong as Ultimate Gohan from the Buu Saga, I do mostly agree since it seem hinted that Gohan needed Super Saiyan to gain his true power again and couldn't hold it for long. Plus, he had his Ultimate form when he faced Beerus, which was only a year ago so his power shouldn't have dropped that drastically.

Again, Piccolo got stronger since his battle with Frost, so you can't just dump current Piccolo into the Champa and claimed that he was always that strong. The fact is, we have no clue how strong Piccolo is. The best we could guess in the Champa Saga was that he seemed even to stronger with base from Gohan. The great thing about this next episode is that we finally get some good scaling on Piccolo for the first time in decades, especially since fans still think he's weaker than Perfect Cell.

Not at all. I don't have base Gohan stronger than Piccolo in the RoF, I literally have him at the same exact power as his post Z sword self in that arc. I would fucking love to be wrong but as of right now Piccolo has yet to surpass Good Boo so Super Saiyan Gohan can't as well. Let's see how things go next Saturday.

And I never said I would dump current Piccolo into the U6. I meant that I would make weakened Frost a bit stronger so I could make that Piccolo a bit more stronger as well.

[HeroR]

BoG ultimate gohan could have been weaker than buu arc ultimate gohan.

Dabura was not SPC level. He was slightly stronger than perfect cell.

The recent herms's translation confirms that Gohan is weaker than his buu arc self, as he i called weak and rusty, and will "even surpass his buu arc self".

Could be, but it was never stated that was weaker. It was only said in Resurrection 'F' that Gohan is weaker, anything before that is speculative.

Why would they compared Dabura to Cell when he wasn't at his strongest? It was never stated that they were thinking of Cell before his self-destruction.

The translation also called Krillin a retired marital artist in one summery, despite Goku confirming in the actual episode that Krillin has been training. And all other translations before that said that Gohan will surpassed where he was in the Buu Saga, not just be equal to it.

If you mean Super Saiyan Gohan is about as strong as Ultimate Gohan from the Buu Saga, I do mostly agree since it seem hinted that Gohan needed Super Saiyan to gain his true power again and couldn't hold it for long. Plus, he had his Ultimate form when he faced Beerus, which was only a year ago so his power shouldn't have dropped that drastically.

Again, Piccolo got stronger since his battle with Frost, so you can't just dump current Piccolo into the Champa and claimed that he was always that strong. The fact is, we have no clue how strong Piccolo is. The best we could guess in the Champa Saga was that he seemed even to stronger with base from Gohan. The great thing about this next episode is that we finally get some good scaling on Piccolo for the first time in decades, especially since fans still think he's weaker than Perfect Cell.

Not at all. I don't have base Gohan stronger than Piccolo in the RoF, I literally have him at the same exact power as his post Z sword self in that arc. I would fucking love to be wrong but as of right now Piccolo has yet to surpass Good Boo so Super Saiyan Gohan can't as well. Let's see how things go next Saturday.

And I never said I would dump current Piccolo into the U6. I meant that I would make weakened Frost a bit stronger so I could make that Piccolo a bit more stronger as well.

Gohan's base was clearly stronger than Piccolo's in Resurrection 'F'. Gohan pushed Togoma back, while Piccolo's attack got no sold and he got his arm ripped off. And Gohan is stronger than his Post-Z sword self, whatever that is since Goku wasn't sure that Gohan got much stronger. So post-Z Sword Gohan would still be weaker than final form Namek Saga Frieza, which isn't the case at all.

[ZombieVito]

Gohan's base was clearly stronger than Piccolo's in Resurrection 'F'. Gohan pushed Togoma back, while Piccolo's attack got no sold and he got his arm ripped off. And Gohan is stronger than his Post-Z sword self, whatever that is since Goku wasn't sure that Gohan got much stronger. So post-Z Sword Gohan would still be weaker than final form Namek Saga Frieza, which isn't the case at all.

Well of course he pushed him back. Tagoma did not see him coming.

[HeroR]

Gohan's base was clearly stronger than Piccolo's in Resurrection 'F'. Gohan pushed Togoma back, while Piccolo's attack got no sold and he got his arm ripped off. And Gohan is stronger than his Post-Z sword self, whatever that is since Goku wasn't sure that Gohan got much stronger. So post-Z Sword Gohan would still be weaker than final form Namek Saga Frieza, which isn't the case at all.

Well of course he pushed him back. Tagoma did not see him coming.

He saw him coming and Gohan attacked when Tagoma was in the middle of bodying Piccolo. It should also be noted that Freeza only commented on Gohan's power out of all the Earth's fighters. He said crap about Piccolo.

[ZombieVito]

Gohan's base was clearly stronger than Piccolo's in Resurrection 'F'. Gohan pushed Togoma back, while Piccolo's attack got no sold and he got his arm ripped off. And Gohan is stronger than his Post-Z sword self, whatever that is since Goku wasn't sure that Gohan got much stronger. So post-Z Sword Gohan would still be weaker than final form Namek Saga Frieza, which isn't the case at all.

Well of course he pushed him back. Tagoma did not see him coming.

He saw him coming and Gohan attacked when Tagoma was in the middle of bodying Piccolo. It should also be noted that Freeza only commented on Gohan's power out of all the Earth's fighters. He said crap about Piccolo.

He didn't see him. Watch the scene again.

Freeza's word means little here since they were all suppressed. The mere fact that Piccolo fought Tagoma weighted after being told he was as strong as Gohan should be enough to proof he was indeed stronger than base Gohan. Not to mention that Ginyu called his power puny.

[HeroR]

He didn't see him. Watch the scene again.

Freeza's word means little here since they were all suppressed. The mere fact that Piccolo fought Tagoma weighted after being told he was as strong as Gohan should be enough to proof he was indeed stronger than base Gohan. Not to mention that Ginyu called his power puny.

Surpassed or not, Freeza pointed to Gohan as the powerhouse of the group and Tagoma outright called Gohan their strongest fighters. Add to the fact that Freeza in Super can sense ki and everything points to Gohan's base form being stronger than Piccolo's. And Piccolo fought the strongest Ginyu-Tagoma with weights, so what does this tell us? Also, Piccolo obviously screwed up how strong Tagoma was since he was shocked that Tagoma no sold his attack.

Piccolo's weights doesn't increase his power by that much, especially by this point. It isn't like Piccolo goes up by twice the power if he removed his weights. So 'Piccolo using weights' doesn't hold much weight here. In fact, someone did the math and saw that Piccolo's power when he takes out his weights only goes up by 20%.

Ginyu-Tagamo was stronger than Tagoma.

[ZombieVito]

I guess it's pointless to debate right now, best to wait for next episode to see how it handles base and Ultimate Gohan.

For example if it's said in the episode that Gohan just can't access his Ultimate form at all then he can't have it on the RoF arc, meaning he is indeed weaker than Piccolo in base.

[HeroR]

I guess it's pointless to debate right now, best to wait for next episode to see how it handles base and Ultimate Gohan.

For example if it's said in the episode that Gohan just can't access his Ultimate form then he can't have it on the RoF arc, meaning he is indeed weaker than Piccolo in base.

Him not having his Ultimate form doesn't mean he's weaker than Piccolo in Resurrection 'F' in his base form, it just means that Gohan didn't have his full Ultimate power in that arc. There is a big different between Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan even in the Buu Saga. The different is wider than Piccolo and Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

Freeza, Tagoma, and Ginyu all called Gohan the strongest even before they knew he had Super Saiyan. To be blunt, there is nothing in Resurrection 'F' that puts Piccolo over base form Gohan. Piccolo's weights simply doesn't increase his power that much, so trying to saw that Piccolo with weights would put him vastly over base form Gohan isn't happening.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

If Piccolo is stronger than SS Gohan, I can't even... in ROF, Base Gohan was stronger than him and in the U6 arc, Piccolo made improvements thanks to Gohan, who should have gotten stronger again after having been initially stronger. So for Piccolo to be stronger now, is just a bit odd, even if they do want to unlock his Ultimate form, but of course this is all speculation from the next EP preview so don't take my word for it.

[HeroR]

If Piccolo is stronger than SS Gohan, I can't even... in ROF, Base Gohan was stronger than him and in the U6 arc, Piccolo made improvements thanks to Gohan, who should have gotten stronger again after having been initially stronger. So for Piccolo to be stronger now, is just a bit odd, even if they do want to unlock his Ultimate form, but of course this is all speculation from the next EP preview so don't take my word for it.

In the Android Saga, Piccolo was about even with a Super Saiyan according to Krillin just by training with Super Saiyan Goku for three years, who also got stronger. So why wouldn't he be on par with Super Saiyan Gohan if they've been training together and Piccolo keeps it up while Gohan needs to go to work and take care of his family?

[ZombieVito]

I guess it's pointless to debate right now, best to wait for next episode to see how it handles base and Ultimate Gohan.

For example if it's said in the episode that Gohan just can't access his Ultimate form then he can't have it on the RoF arc, meaning he is indeed weaker than Piccolo in base.

Him not having his Ultimate form doesn't mean he's weaker than Piccolo in Resurrection 'F' in his bade form, it just means that Gohan did have his full god power in that arc. There is a big different between Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan even in the Buu Saga. The different is wider than Piccolo and Cell Games Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

Freeza, Tagoma, and Ginyu all called Gohan the strongest even before they knew he had Super Saiyan. To be blunt, there is nothing in Resurrection 'F' that puts Piccolo over base form Gohan. Piccolo's weights simply doesn't increase his power that much, so trying to saw that Piccolo with weights would put him vastly over base form Gohan isn't happening.

You are not getting what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that if it's confirmed in the episode that Gohan just can't access any of his Ultimate power then by logic he can't have it on RoF. Making him have the power he had previously before Old Kaioshin's ritual.

The series sees Ultimate as a transformation, so it doesn't really make sense to me that Gohan can tap a little bit of it's power without transforming into it. That was never said in the episode. There's also the fact that Super Saiyan doesn't stack with Ultimate.

So again, let's wait for the episode.