Idea on how they could keep the series going forever?

[ekrolo2]

Goku became a prideful, arrogant prick who thought he was the best there ever was and he humbles himself to Beerus by conceding defeat.

I never saw it as that at all. He was the same as he always was. He didn't pick a fight with Beerus because he thought he was better and I don't think he's ever claimed he was the best there ever was.
I never saw it as that at all. He was the same as he always was. He didn't pick a fight with Beerus because he thought he was better and I don't think he's ever claimed he was the best there ever was.

He cockily asks Beerus if he wants to power down from 3 to 2, he's annoyed he needs other people's strength to accomplish anything (which is the SOLE reason he beats basically anybody after Piccolo) and other characters even reference the fact he's gotten obnoxiously fighting obsessed, to the point of not counting as pure enough for the ritual like Piccolo and Roshi. There's even a parallel drawn between him and Vegeta with Goku being the guy looking for a fight and Vegeta doing whatever it takes, even making himself look like a total ass, to AVOID fighting Beerus period.

In Super, Goku acts like usual, excited he's got this cool new power and ultimately wants to prove to Beerus he's worth something, the movie is exactly the opposite with him accepting he's not gonna overcome this obstacle yet and relearning Popo's lesson of strong guys

The joy of The Avengers lies in its characters, not in its plot. And every movie has a formula.

I don't care about anyone in that movie, they don't give me any reason to care, none of the Avengers actually start being interesting characters in their own right for me until well into phase 2 and even then I still couldn't give less of a shit about Hulk, Thor and Black Widow if I tried.

[ABED]

Goku became a prideful, arrogant prick who thought he was the best there ever was and he humbles himself to Beerus by conceding defeat.

I never saw it as that at all. He was the same as he always was. He didn't pick a fight with Beerus because he thought he was better and I don't think he's ever claimed he was the best there ever was.
I never saw it as that at all. He was the same as he always was. He didn't pick a fight with Beerus because he thought he was better and I don't think he's ever claimed he was the best there ever was.

He cockily asks Beerus if he wants to power down from 3 to 2, he's annoyed he needs other people's strength to accomplish anything (which is the SOLE reason he beats basically anybody after Piccolo) and other characters even reference the fact he's gotten obnoxiously fighting obsessed, to the point of not counting as pure enough for the ritual like Piccolo and Roshi. There's even a parallel drawn between him and Vegeta with Goku being the guy looking for a fight and Vegeta doing whatever it takes, even making himself look like a total ass, to AVOID fighting Beerus period.

In Super, Goku acts like usual, excited he's got this cool new power and ultimately wants to prove to Beerus he's worth something, the movie is exactly the opposite with him accepting he's not gonna overcome this obstacle yet and relearning Popo's lesson of strong guys

The joy of The Avengers lies in its characters, not in its plot. And every movie has a formula.

I don't care about anyone in that movie, they don't give me any reason to care, none of the Avengers actually start being interesting characters in their own right for me until well into phase 2 and even then I still couldn't give less of a shit about Hulk, Thor and Black Widow if I tried.

Beerus came after Goku because of the prophecy. Goku is the same as he always was, he wants to fight the strongest. He's not arrogant for being annoyed at needing other's strengths. If he was arrogant, he wouldn't have used their power. He simply wants to be the best. It's about being the best warrior he can be. His obsession with fighting is not remotely new. Vegeta avoiding the fight doesn't make Goku arrogant and Vegeta more rational.

YOU don't care, but that's you. I loved the characters since the beginning and had plenty of reasons to care as I found them interesting from the jump. There's no use arguing over whether there was a reason to care since that's ultimately a matter of opinion.

[ekrolo2]

Beerus came after Goku because of the prophecy. Goku is the same as he always was, he wants to fight the strongest. He's not arrogant for being annoyed at needing other's strengths. If he was arrogant, he wouldn't have used their power. He simply wants to be the best. It's about being the best warrior he can be. His obsession with fighting is not remotely new.

YOU don't care, but that's you.

I'm not talking about his desire for fighting, but it isn't standard Goku to smirk at someone then cockily ask them "Oh, is this too much for you? I can dial it back a peg if you want!". That's the kind of arrogant thing Vegeta would say, and I doubt Goku would get annoyed by someone dismissing his boast the way he does.

And he IS annoyed by needing other people's strength, he's specifically says the power of a Super Saiyan God is incredible but he's annoyed he's frustrated he needed the help of other people to attain this power. A power he'd NEVER be able to get on his own. When the movie all but stops entirely to point out how Vegeta was the one doing the smart thing IE leaving Beerus alone and Goku's the one going a bit too far this time with his desire for battle, I don't think I'm extrapolating something that's not there when I make the observation that the movie's portraying Goku as letting some of Vegeta's usual quirks effect him in this story.

I know I'm me, what makes you think I'm applying my statement as an all encompassing rule everyone else is too stupid to realize? I know people like the Avengers, I don't, Guardians does everything Avengers is praised for considerably better, in a single film, with better writing and cinematography and it does it in SPACE!

[sintzu]

The fact that something generates revenue doesn't justify keeping a story going forever.

I can't wait to see how they're going to do it.

Once Toriyama is done, where else can they go ? The characters aren't really growing so they're growing the world instead but once that's done what will be left ?

[ABED]

Maybe that's simply inconsistent characterization as opposed to a change in his character.

I didn't claim he wasn't annoyed by it, but he still does it because he needs it to save the Earth. However, that doesn't show his arrogance, in fact it shows the opposite. The movie specifically points out that Beerus awoke to fight the Super Saiyan God. He came looking for a fight. It didn't matter what Goku did, there was going to be a battle. And Goku didn't go too far. When he first meets Beerus, he's polite. He loves fights for the sake of fights. He wasn't out to prove anything to anyone except to himself and have a good time fighting a strong opponent. That's not arrogance.

I don't think Guardians is better at all. I don't give one damn bit about that villain. Guardian ups the comedy quotient and as a result, so much of the tension is ruined, much like the Buu arc. Lastly, I don't give a crap about cinematography. It's a boring subject and talking about it always sounds pretentious. Not saying you are, just that it's the way it sounds to me. I care about story and character. They are the things that create an emotional investment for me. Cinematography is nice but not something that will get me to emotionally invest.

Once Toriyama is done, where else can they go ? The characters aren't really growing so they're growing the world instead but once that's done what will be left?

It doesn't feel like the world is truly growing. It's more hierarchy. Granted I haven't seen Super, but I'm not hearing much that appeals to me.

[ekrolo2]

Maybe that's simply inconsistent characterization as opposed to a change in his character.

I didn't claim he wasn't annoyed by it, but he still does it because he needs it to save the Earth. However, that doesn't show his arrogance, in fact it shows the opposite. The movie specifically points out that Beerus awoke to fight the Super Saiyan God. He came looking for a fight. It didn't matter what Goku did, there was going to be a battle. And Goku didn't go too far. When he first meets Beerus, he's polite. He loves fights for the sake of fights. He wasn't out to prove anything to anyone except to himself and have a good time fighting a strong opponent. That's not arrogance.

I don't think Guardians is better at all. I don't give one damn bit about that villain. Guardian ups the comedy quotient and as a result, so much of the tension is ruined, much like the Buu arc. Lastly, I don't give a crap about cinematography. It's a boring subject and talking about it always sounds pretentious. Not saying you are, just that it's the way it sounds to me. I care about story and character. They are the things that create an emotional investment for me. Cinematography is nice but not something that will get me to emotionally invest.

He starts out polite then cockily asks Beerus if he SS3 looks too much for him and if he wants him (Goku) to power down back to 2, then Goku gets annoyed by Beerus casually dismissing him the same way Vegeta does whenever he acts superior only for his opponent to shrug it off.

Beerus does wake up to fight but Beerus doesn't go around antagonizing anyone to do it, Goku's the one who keeps insisting that they battle and when Beerus comes to Earth, he doesn't immediately start attacking everybody to draw out the Super Saiyan God. If Boo didn't piss him off, Beerus would've left the Earth in peace, disappointed he didn't get the fight he wanted but happy enough he had a good time at the party and got to eat some cool dishes.

In Super, Goku isn't arrogant, he acts pretty much the same as usual, loves fighting, loves getting this new power so he can get to fight harder and better than before. In the movie, Goku shows off shades of Vegeta, is annoyed he couldn't get this strong on his own and needed outside help and is paralleled by Beerus as being too much of a fighting maniac in comparison to Vegeta who avoids the conflict.

Ronan from Guardians didn't resonate for me either but he doesn't annoy me like Loki does. For all of Hiddleston's strengths, he suffers from the same problems as I always have with Loki: the back and forth gets old really fast. Either decide you love your adopted family or fucking definitively get around to destroying them, this back and forth isn't interesting, it doesn't enhance things, it's just obnoxious and makes Loki go nowhere real fast as a character. It's ESPECIALLY obnoxious when he keeps doing his thing and no one snaps his fucking neck over and kills him permanently in the comics. The movie version is rapidly heading into this territory.Whatever credibility he has as a threat also goes out the window when everyone in the Avengers kicks his ass to varying degrees, at least Ronan was hard to kill.

[ABED]

What? Beerus does nothing but antagonize people. He has a VERY short fuse.

[ekrolo2]

What? Beerus does nothing but antagonize people. He has a VERY short fuse.

Not really, Beerus is mostly polite to people, he dances at the party, is actually annoyed by people being amused by kid Mai threatening to kill Trunks and socializes with people. The only thing that makes him explode is Boo being a bad host.

This is definitely petty of him but lets not pretend he goes around intentionally pissing everybody off just to see if an SSGod is gonna show up, because he doesn't. In Super he's WWAAYY more worse, intentionally screwing with Vegeta's head just to scare the crap out of him over and over again.

[ABED]

What? Beerus does nothing but antagonize people. He has a VERY short fuse.

Not really, Beerus is mostly polite to people, he dances at the party, is actually annoyed by people being amused by kid Mai threatening to kill Trunks and socializes with people. The only thing that makes him explode is Boo being a bad host.

This is definitely petty of him but lets not pretend he goes around intentionally pissing everybody off just to see if an SSGod is gonna show up, because he doesn't. In Super he's WWAAYY more worse, intentionally screwing with Vegeta's head just to scare the crap out of him over and over again.

Beerus has a short fuse, he gets pissy and mad because of someone not letting him have food. You're right, he's petty and he doesn't give a shit whether he pisses everyone off. That's not what I would call polite. I don't think Buu was a bad host. For one, he wasn't a host and the food was first come first serve. Buu had a right to the pudding (it was pudding if I recall).

[ekrolo2]

What? Beerus does nothing but antagonize people. He has a VERY short fuse.

Not really, Beerus is mostly polite to people, he dances at the party, is actually annoyed by people being amused by kid Mai threatening to kill Trunks and socializes with people. The only thing that makes him explode is Boo being a bad host.

This is definitely petty of him but lets not pretend he goes around intentionally pissing everybody off just to see if an SSGod is gonna show up, because he doesn't. In Super he's WWAAYY more worse, intentionally screwing with Vegeta's head just to scare the crap out of him over and over again.

Beerus has a short fuse, he gets pissy and mad because of someone not letting him have food. You're right, he's petty and he doesn't give a shit whether he pisses everyone off. That's not what I would call polite. I don't think Buu was a bad host. For one, he wasn't a host and the food was first come first serve. Buu had a right to the pudding (it was pudding if I recall).

Boo didn't have the right to act like a spoiled little brat t him either, Beerus nicely asked the guy for the food then Boo started acting pissy and needlessly ticked Beerus off. Even still, he repeatedly gives the people of Earth a chance to save themselves, first with Oolong, then with Goku and after both of them fail, he still lets them go on with their lives.

Beerus is petty and has a short temper, but he doesn't act like that in the film until someone else' pettiness sets him off. It's not like in Super where he's a thinly veiled psychotic madman.

[ABED]

It's hard not to tick Beerus off. Everyone has to walk on egg shells not to. He gave the Earth a chance by a game? That's a really polite guy.

Beerus is petty and has a short temper, but he doesn't act like that in the film until someone else' pettiness sets him off.

That just makes things worse. His reaction to pettiness is to threaten people and beat them up over pudding?

Anyway, back on topic, if they were going to keep the series going, I'd rather a movie every now and then than a series. I'm not liking what I'm hearing regarding the seemingly never ending hierarchy, but I liked the concept of Gods of Destruction being the counterpart to Kaioshins. It reminds me of Supernatural where God and Death (now The Darkness) are counterparts.

[Cipher]

The joy of The Avengers lies in its characters, not in its plot. And every movie has a formula.

This is off-topic, but what the hell, since younger people are probably reading, I want to cite this as the kind of TV Tropes-inspired thinking that undermines the ability of fiction to completely surprise and inform.

(All movies therein arbitrarily selected personal favorites that maintain coherence and intentionality while bucking anything but the slightest tilt of the head toward convention and formula.)

[ABED]

The joy of The Avengers lies in its characters, not in its plot. And every movie has a formula.

This is off-topic, but what the hell, since younger people are probably reading, I want to cite this as the kind of TV Tropes-inspired thinking that undermines the ability of fiction to completely surprise and inform.

(All movies therein arbitrarily selected personal favorites that maintain coherence and intentionality while bucking anything but the slightest tilt of the head toward convention and formula.)

I don't care whether a movie surprises or informs, I want to be entertained first and foremost and then moved in some way. Art is supposed to engage the viewer on an emotional level. Art can inform, but that's not its primary purpose. Surprises are nice when they happen, but they need to be organic. If something surprises because of randomness then it's not a good surprise.