Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[LowRyder2005]

The article states is that Saiyans with the power of Super Saiyan God awaken the power of Super Saiyan Blue when they become Super Saiyan. I'm not contradicting anything. Did Goku go Super Saiyan in BOG? Yes he did, so he can still use it. The ki was already entirely his own when he absorbed it. All he did afterwards was train to master his ki so it never leaked, which was shown to invoke SSB.

If using SSB requires your ki to not leak in addition to using God's power as a Super Saiyan, then if your ki is leaking, the result of the power will not be SSB if you become a Super Saiyan. With all of this taken into account, is the blurb wrong? No. Super Saiyan Blue is still becoming a Super Saiyan under Super Saiyan God's power. The basic Super Saiyan is still accessible as shown in the series.

We know for a fact that he can still use it before ROF, not during or after it. That's a claim, regardless of how much well-thought or grounded you think it is since "this" or "that" happened before. The excerpt, which is meant to clarify things pertaining to the time the ROF movie takes place, states that if Goku tried after becoming godly-empowered he'd turn Blue. Again, if you take the article word-per-word, it means that something has changed in-between.
Super Saiyan being accessible to Goku normally is shown in Super, which has its own continuity. You can't retroactively apply it to confirm something for everyone else. It's fine if you want to believe the article doesn't reflect the truth because of what's shown in Super.

When Goku is shown using Super Saiyan after absorbing God power during BOG and all throughout Super, then Super Saiyan disappearing forever obviously isn't the intention and it doesn't matter what you think the statement should logically mean in this case. It's not outright stated that Super Saiyan is inaccessible and Goku is shown using it during BOG and Super.

It is, according to the booklet, unless you theorize Goku isn't his "godly powered" self at all times. BOG and Dragon Ball Super are not necessarily related to what's happening in the ROF movie like you're claiming. I'm basically rewording this in a different manner every time because you are simply repeating yourself.

I acknowledged the article already so lets stop with the strawmans, since you can't actually counter anything that I've said.

Pardon me? This whole debate is ENTIRELY you boxing with what the article is saying, and in layman's terms; if anything, I'm acting as an intermediator here.

[Marlowe89]

I'd also like to mention that mastering your ki so that it never leaks was never said to invoke Super Saiyan Blue at any point in the series. We know that Super Saiyan Blue has undetectable God ki, but we've also seen Goku and Vegeta compressing their ki and preventing it from leaking in their base forms. If anything, that's the "Godly power" the series commonly refers to and Super Saiyan Blue is just the Super Saiyan form of that state.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know, that's actually a good way to look at it, supersaiyangodgogeta.

Goku and Vegeta have the power of SSG in all their forms. It's a part of their own power. They don't realize the full potential of this power until Whis teaches them how to perfectly control their Ki by not letting it leak out, at which point they learn to turn into the SSB form after training in the Temporal Dimension of Godly Ki (my own name, I trademarked it ).

Perhaps this added detail is what separates the regular forms from SSB.

Time for some speculation!

===

Goku absorbed the power of SSG into his own being, making its power his own. Vegeta achieved it through intense training under Whis's tutelage, making its power his own. Both had yet to learn to not let their Ki leak, and thus couldn't surpass SSG. However, by learning to not let their Ki leak out in the SS form, perhaps this process allows them to truly use the power of SSG, becoming several times stronger.

Maybe turning into a god, the SSB form, is only possible by possessing SSG's power and not letting Ki leak out in the SS form, and can only be tasted in an untransformed state.

Retcons later on would downplay the boost that SSG's power gave the two to lower but still impressive levels, at some form of Majin Buu in an untransformed state.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

We know for a fact that he can still use before ROF, not during or after it. That's a claim, regardless of how much well-thought or grounded you think it is since "this" or "that" happened before. The excerpt, which is meant to clarify things pertaining to the time the ROF movie takes place, states that if Goku tried after becoming godly-empowered he'd turn Blue. Again, if you take the article word-per-word, it means that something has changed in-between.
Super Saiyan being accessible to Goku normally is shown in Super, which has its own continuity. You can't retroactively apply it to confirm something for everyone else. It's fine if you want to believe the article doesn't reflect the truth because of what's shown in Super.

No, we know for a fact that he can use it after becoming a Saiyan Beyond God, period. Saying things like "during or after ROF" is irrelevant. No distinction was ever made between the media in the way you're advocating. The articles statement isn't even wrong. The same thing in the article is what's stated in Super as well as every media. Despite that, perfect ki control is needed to manifest SSB and Goku is still shown using the regular Super Saiyan.

It is, according to the booklet, unless you theorize Goku isn't his "godly powered" self at all times. BOG and Dragon Ball Super are not necessarily related to what's happening in the ROF movie like you're claiming. I'm basically rewording this in a different manner every time because you are simply repeating yourself.

No, because I'm not redefining the requirements for SSB. You going on about time frame is irrelevant. The time frame of the movie doesn't change the forms requirements. You need the power of Super Saiyan God+Super Saiyan and as shown in Super, you need to master your ki so it never leaks out.
Was Goku godly powered during BOG? Yes he was.

God power+Super Saiyan=Super Saiyan

God power+Super Saiyan+Perfect ki control=Super Saiyan Blue

Is the blurb correct that Super Saiyan Blue is the power of Super Saiyan God combined with Super Saiyan. Yes it is.

Pardon me? This whole debate is ENTIRELY you boxing with what the article is saying, and in layman's terms; if anything, I'm acting as an intermediator here.

The entire debate is comprised of 2 base theorists extrapolating one article and ignoring everything else while spewing "2 base theory confirmed" over and over even though the article nor any source at all says anything about a 2nd base existing.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Pardon me? This whole debate is ENTIRELY you boxing with what the article is saying, and in layman's terms; if anything, I'm acting as an intermediator here.

The entire debate is comprised of 2 base theorists extrapolating one article and ignoring everything else while spewing "2 base theory confirmed" over and over even though the article nor any source at all says anything about a 2nd base existing.

Okay, I think that is enough. We should end this here and agree to disagree. Whatever supersaiyangodgogeta wants to believe he can, but don't try to push it on everyone. Whatever LowRyder2005 wants to believe he can, but don't try to push it on everyone.

[DBZ Macky]

With all the implications already pointing towards it, the 2 base theory makes perfect sense to me and now with this article as official proof backing it up, I'd say it really is "confirmed". If some naysayers still don't get it, then good luck trying to figure out a coherent power scale.

[LowRyder2005]

No, we know for a fact that he can use it after becoming a Saiyan Beyond God, period. Saying things like "during or after ROF" is irrelevant. No distinction was ever made between the media in the way you're advocating. The articles statement isn't even wrong. The same thing in the article is what's stated in Super as well as every media. Despite that, perfect ki control is needed to manifest SSB and Goku is still shown using the regular Super Saiyan.

"There's a period we know nothing about and which may contradict my stance on an official piece of information, but it's irrelevant". Such an awesome way to confront ideas.

I suggest you try again when you are able to produce an answer telling something new or remotely cogent.
No idea about the last phrase, I'm pretty sure it's been said that Super Saiyan Blue is a form that "has perfect ki control", not that "you need perfect ki control to achieve Super Saiyan Blue".

No, because I'm not redefining the requirements for SSB. You going on about time frame is irrelevant. The time frame of the movie doesn't change the forms requirements. You need the power of Super Saiyan God+Super Saiyan and as shown in Super, you need to master your ki so it never leaks out.
Was Goku godly powered during BOG? Yes he was.

God power+Super Saiyan=Super Saiyan

God power + Super Saiyan = Super Saiyan Blue

Is the blurb correct that Super Saiyan Blue is the power of Super Saiyan God combined with Super Saiyan. Yes it is.

You are. The article says "God power + Super Saiyan = Super Saiyan Blue" is supposed to be valid for the ROF movie, and nothing of the above. No "perfect ki control" to speak of, which is a concept introduced in Super and which I still believing you may be conveniently twisting, given by now your track record.

[Bullza]

After defeating Frieza, Goku and Vegeta learn of the other universes. They are recruited to be part of the U7 team. In order to prepare for this, they train in the RoSaT. During this time, Goku and Vegeta master ki control to an even greater level, allowing them to access mortal forms such as Base, SS1, SS2, SS3 in addition to New SSG and SSBlue.

Well the comment in the Volume F about they can gain control of their God like power without changing form was said for the events of Resurrection F so they should have learnt to access these mortal forms or just turn this God power on and off before they went in the Rosat and sometime during the Resurrection F saga.

However Base Goku still seemed to be at God levels the whole time from the fight with Beerus to months afterward and when he arrived on the planet and was changing bed sheets.

So I wonder if they learnt to access these mortal forms in the staff, around the same time as when they learnt to become Super Saiyan Blue.

The co!ment was said for the movie and not the anime which did things differently but that if any would probably be the best place to fit it in.

Monaka-Beerus and Slim Buu make sense to be New SSG since both of those characters are strong and he could not handle them in Base alone.

I'd definitely agree with Monaka-Beerus but I don't know about Buu. Buu did hurt Goku even if it wasn't too much he did hurt him a little and I'd find it odd that with just an hour of training Buu could have improved enough to be able to hurt someone who was God level.

No clue why you're showing me that nonsense to try to make yourself look smarter than you actually are. Doesn't do anything to help your point.

This thread really does get you all irate doesn't it? Everyone else is so calm and discusses things back and forth with out problem but for some reason this all seems to get to you.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

"There's a period we know nothing about and which may contradict my stance on an official piece of information, but it's irrelevant".

I suggest you try again when you are able to produce an answer telling something new or remotely cogent.
No idea about the last phrase, I'm pretty sure it's been said that Super Saiyan Blue is a form that "has perfect ki control", not that "you need perfect ki control to achieve Super Saiyan Blue".

It's irrelevant because we already saw Goku become a basic Super Saiyan in BOG despite being a Saiyan Beyond God, which contradicts your claims on Super Saiyan being locked off forever even though there's nothing stating this.
The same way he's used the basic Super Saiyan then is the same way he's using it now.

You are. The article says "God power + Super Saiyan = Super Saiyan Blue" is supposed to be valid for the ROF movie, and nothing of the above. No "perfect ki control" to speak of, which is a concept introduced in Super and which I still believing you may be conveniently twisting, given by now your track record.

The only way your argument holds is if you attempt to claim that the article is trying to say that the basic Super Saiyan isn't usable anymore even though it doesn't say that and is wrong simply on the basis that Goku used it in BOG.

Goku said the same exact thing about the form in Super that the blurb said. Doesn't change the fact that certain ki training was needed to invoke it.

Perfect ki control is shown to be needed to invoke it. That is why Goku and Vegeta only started unlocking Blue's power after Whis instructed them to not let their ki leak.

[buutenks]

Well, just wanted to write this. But after taking a break from all this power scaling stuff, after rewatching krillin vs Goku and 17 vs Goku, I simply was left with the impression that krillin was totally out of his league and he stood 0 chance but he has some tricks up his sleeve which will be useful in the tourney(now if they use that or not in the tourney or he gets eliminated quickly is another matter all together), while android 17 became incredibly powerful to go toe to toe with ssj blue, even if Goku held back.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

With all the implications already pointing towards it, the 2 base theory makes perfect sense to me and now with this article as official proof backing it up, I'd say it really is "confirmed". If some naysayers still don't get it, then good luck trying to figure out a coherent power scale.

Coherency isn't the point. The point is not coming up with a contrived arbitrary catch-all to explain simple inconsistencies that occur in the pursuit of entertainment.

That, and this was evidence for the MOVIE, not the anime.

If you guys can find something in the anime that explicitly states this information AND states that every instance that Two-Base Theory supposedly occurs in was indeed because of that theory, THEN you can say it's confirmed.

Until then, stop saying it's confirmed. The fact that the anime has STILL failed to cough up the goods in terms of dialogue cues for this theory is already evidence against this. You people are celebrating long before the battle has been won. This is like the "Ben Giraud eureka moment" from the Halo franchise's audio series, #HunttheTruth, where you think you've found your silver bullet, only to find out that a single flaw discredits it all.

In this case, I believe that fatal flaw is the fact that it was for the movie, and not the anime.

[LowRyder2005]

It's irrelevant because we already saw Goku become a basic Super Saiyan in BOG despite being a Saiyan Beyond God, which contradicts your claims on Super Saiyan being locked off forever even though there's nothing stating this.
The same way he's used the basic Super Saiyan then is the same way he's using it now.

It should be relevant following precisely this line of thought. We don't know if something changed in-between the two movies. The "god-like" Saiyans described by the blurb may have some other defining characteristics they obtained in the meanwhile.
I could say that the godly power had not "merged fully" with Goku in BOG, and that by the time it did, Goku's "Super Saiyan" evolved into "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" with no means to go back to the way it was. This, obviously, referring to what was meant to be at the time of the ROF movie and potentially before any plans were made for the old Super Saiyan forms to return (admitting they were not supposed to make a return, that is); also something which is not necessarily applicable to Super, as it was pointed out multiple times.

The only way your argument holds is if you attempt to claim that the article is trying to say that the basic Super Saiyan isn't usable anymore even though it doesn't say that and is wrong simply on the basis that Goku used it in BOG.

That's entirely the point: the article is implying that, unless one claimed Goku can stop being a "god-like Saiyan" in the context of the movie. What happens x time before does not automatically disprove it like you're claiming.

I may say "if I watch out of my bedroom's window, I'll see the city of New York", but it doesn't automatically mean it applied to yesterday as well. We know that at the time of ROF, the god-like Saiyans will turn Blue. We don't have anything conclusive to argue the article needed to reconcile what was said with BOG's Super Saiyan as well; in fact, the strict consequence of taking the article literally is that something must have changed in-between the movies.

You're basically doing this the other way round: you take the movie and claim it contradicts what the article is saying at face value, so we need to add some corollary. However, you're also adding the arbitrary precondition that nothing else must have changed... which is a second claim you created to justify the first one. You're free to believe that or to think it the most logical explanation, but going as far as starting to argue it's the only conceivable solution doesn't make sense.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

It should be relevant following precisely this line of thought. We don't know if something changed in-between the two movies. The "god-like" Saiyans described by the blurb may have some other defining characteristics they obtained in the meanwhile.
I could say that the god power had not "merged fully" with Goku in BOG, and that by the time it did, Goku's "Super Saiyan" evolved into "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" with no means to go back to the way it was. This, obviously, referring to what was meant to be at the time of the ROF movie and potentially before any plans were made for the old Super Saiyan forms to return (admitting they were not supposed to make a return, that is); also something which is not necessarily applicable to Super, as it was pointed out multiple times.

No clue what you're talking about. The power was stated to have fully merged with him and that isn't even a stated requirement. Despite that during BOG, Goku was a basic Super Saiyan. The only thing that changed between BOG and ROF is Goku training to make it so his ki never leaked, which was shown to lead him to unlocking SSB.

That's entirely the point: the article is implying that, unless one claimed Goku can stop being a "god-like Saiyan" in the context of the movie. What happens x time before does not automatically disprove it like you're claiming.

If I say "if I watch out of my bedroom's window, I'll see the city of New York", it doesn't automatically mean it applied to yesterday as well. We know that at the time of ROF, the god-like Saiyans will turn Blue. We don't have anything conclusive to argue the article needed to reconcile what was said with BOG's Super Saiyan as well; in fact, the strict consequence of taking the article literally is that something must have changed in-between the movies.

You're basically doing this the other way round: you take the movie and claim it contradicts what the article is saying at face value, so we need to add some corollary. However, you're also adding the arbitrary precondition that nothing else must have changed... which is a second claim you created to justify the first one. You're free to believe that or to think it's the explanation making the most sense, but going as far as starting to argue it's the only conceivable solution doesn't make sense.

>Did Goku possess the power of God in Base during BOG like the article says? Yes.
>Did Goku turn into a basic Super Saiyan during BOG while possessing the power of God? Yes.

No it doesn't say that. The only thing the article is saying is that Super Saiyan Blue is when a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God goes Super Saiyan. There is no explicit statement of the basic Super Saiyan being lost forever. Therefore if Goku and Vegeta are still shown to go Super Saiyan despite being Saiyan Beyond God, that will be factored in.

[LowRyder2005]

No clue what you're talking about. The power was stated to have fully merged with him and that isn't even a stated requirement. Despite that during BOG, Goku was a basic Super Saiyan. The only thing that changed between BOG and ROF is Goku training to make it so his ki never leaked, which was shown to lead him to unlocking SSB.

For the umpteenth time, if we want to abide by what the article is stating, the direct consequence of the article is stating that the god-like Goku cannot turn Super Saiyan as long as he is his current "godlike-self"; therefore, there must be some inherent difference between the time he turned Super Saiyan against Beerus and when he turned Super Saiyan Blue against Freeza.
In the post above I just tried to make a very quick example. I could argue that the power had not actually fully merged regardless of Beerus' words, that it didn't "mature", that it needed twenty minutes of baking time before being fully cooked, whatever floats your boat. Super Saiyan Blue may have had effectively substituted his Super Saiyan. More or less, just like his base form was now able to wield the fabulous Super Saiyan God's power. I don't need to come up with explanations since everything would be a mere consequence of what the article is implying.

>Did Goku possess the power of God in Base during BOG like the article says? Yes.
>Did Goku turn into a basic Super Saiyan during BOG while possessing the power of God? Yes.

The only thing the article is saying is that Super Saiyan Blue is when a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God goes Super Saiyan.

There is no explicit statement of the basic Super Saiyan being lost forever.

Yep, per the bolded you very kindly reported above, it's not an issue as long as Goku is not a Saiyan who has the power of a Super Saiyan God, at least when the ROF movie takes place. Otherwise, the article says the moment he turns Super Saiyan he'll turn Super Saiyan Blue. Now, I just wonder, how many more repetitions will suffice?

[TheMikado]

Are we really arguing that the way a form works is different between the movie and the anime? That's not how it works and it should be deemed that lore between all media is the same UNLESS specifically stated otherwise.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Are we really arguing that the way a form works is different between the movie and the anime? That's not how it works and it should be deemed that lore between all media is the same UNLESS specifically stated otherwise.

I'm pretty sure the proper assumption is to NOT assume they're the same unless statements and dialogue confirm they're the same, so as to not fall into the trappings of hasty generalization.

Basically, look at each medium separately unless there are specific commonalities between them.

===

I recall that in the manga, Goku Black's regular SS form turned into SSR when he got a Zenkai boost that put it above SSG. Wasn't SSR the same thing, fundamentally speaking, as SSb, albeit different due to Goku Black possessing the soul of a Kai? Maybe the same thing applies to SSB in the anime, in that it requires SS surpassing SSG, only that it surpasses SSG via not letting the form's Ki leak out as Whis instructed.

Is it ever stated by how much Goku Black's SS form surpassed SSG?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

For the unpteenth time, if we want to abide by what the article is stating, the direct consequence of the article is stating that the god-like Goku cannot turn Super Saiyan as long as he is his current "godlike-self"; therefore, there must some inherent difference between the time he turned Super Saiyan against Beerus and when he turned Super Saiyan Blue against Freeza.
In the post above I just tried to make a very quick example. I could argue that the power had not actually fully merged regardless of Beerus' words, that it didn't "mature", that it needed twenty minutes of baking time before being fully cooked, whatever floats your boat. Super Saiyan Blue may have had effectively substituted his Super Saiyan. More or less, just like his base form was now able to wield the fabulous Super Saiyan God's power. I don't need to come up with explanations since everything would be a mere consequence of what the article is implying.

There is no cooking anything. That isn't stated anywhere nor does it make sense. The power already merged with him which is why he still had the power after reverting.

Goku still used the basic Super Saiyan with God's power. You need to reconcile all of the facts stated in the story, not cherrypick like you've been doing.

What changed between BOG and ROF? Goku wasn't letting his ki leak as clarified in Super. The end.

Yep, per the bolded you very kindly reported above, it's not an issue as long as Goku is not a Saiyan who has the power of a Super Saiyan God, at least when the ROF movie takes place. Otherwise, the article says the moment he turns Super Saiyan he'll turn Super Saiyan Blue. Now, I just wonder, how many more repetitions will suffice?

Yeah, I wonder how many times I'll have to repeat myself. Goku goes uses the basic Super Saiyan with the power of God during BOG and all throughout Super and that doesn't contradict the blurb since it doesn't explicitly say that he can't use it.

[LowRyder2005]

There is no cooking anything. That isn't stated anywhere nor does it make sense. The power already merged with him which is why he still had the power after reverting.

Goku still used the basic Super Saiyan with God's power. You need to reconcile all of the facts stated in the story, not cherrypick like you've been doing.

What changed between BOG and ROF? Goku wasn't letting his ki leak as clarified in Super. The end.

Goku goes uses the basic Super Saiyan with the power of God during BOG and all throughout Super and that doesn't contradict the blurb since it doesn't explicitly say that he can't use it.

I'm reconciling everything rather feasibly with the story and the article.
You, on the other hand, keep adding unsubstantiated claims, arbitrarily mixing sources and indirectly contradicting the article's words as the end result anyway. Notwithstanding the problem with your attitude, I'm afraid you just aren't very convincing.

[ChiefWamsutta]

You people are celebrating long before the battle has been won.

Okay, you really need to relax here. We are discussing the power level of a freaking anime character whose hair changes color. ... Let that sink in.

This is not a "battle" that needs to be won. Stop acting so confrontational.

Whatever I want to believe I will. Whatever you want to believe you will. This thread is a medium for discussing theories, not for you to try to claim victory over us because of your personal interpretation of a pamphlet.

Are we really arguing that the way a form works is different between the movie and the anime? That's not how it works and it should be deemed that lore between all media is the same UNLESS specifically stated otherwise.

Yes, thank you. supersaiyangodgogeta and PerhapsTheOtherOne seem to be taking this much too seriously. We are here to trade theories and have friendly verbal jousts, not berate other users.

For the unpteenth time, if we want to abide by what the article is stating, the direct consequence of the article is stating that the god-like Goku cannot turn Super Saiyan as long as he is his current "godlike-self".

He is going to continue believing whatever he wants to believe. He has a twisted view of how things work, and is unable to have a schmidgen of humility to consider another person's opinions. Just don't reply anymore. It **really** is not worth it.

After defeating Frieza, Goku and Vegeta learn of the other universes. They are recruited to be part of the U7 team. In order to prepare for this, they train in the RoSaT. During this time, Goku and Vegeta master ki control to an even greater level, allowing them to access mortal forms such as Base, SS1, SS2, SS3 in addition to New SSG and SSBlue.

Well the comment in the Volume F about they can gain control of their God like power without changing form was said for the events of Resurrection F so they should have learnt to access these mortal forms or just turn this God power on and off before they went in the Rosat and sometime during the Resurrection F saga.

However Base Goku still seemed to be at God levels the whole time from the fight with Beerus to months afterward and when he arrived on the planet and was changing bed sheets.

So I wonder if they learnt to access these mortal forms in the staff, around the same time as when they learnt to become Super Saiyan Blue.

The co!ment was said for the movie and not the anime which did things differently but that if any would probably be the best place to fit it in.

Monaka-Beerus and Slim Buu make sense to be New SSG since both of those characters are strong and he could not handle them in Base alone.

I'd definitely agree with Monaka-Beerus but I don't know about Buu. Buu did hurt Goku even if it wasn't too much he did hurt him a little and I'd find it odd that with just an hour of training Buu could have improved enough to be able to hurt someone who was God level.

Right, right, so Goku had this God-like Base when he arrived on Beerus and Whis' planet. He learned SSBlue in the Staff Dimension. If I understand what you're saying, you are suggesting that he could've re-learned Base, SS1, SS2, SS3 and learned SSBlue all in the Staff Dimension. So my reason for thinking he re-learned the forms in the RoSaT is because they were in there for three years. After they came out of the RoSaT they reveal Base and SS1. We don't know how long they were in the Staff Dimension, but, based on the amount of pizza they ate, I don't think it was for too long. I just felt like it was a conservative estimate to say during the RoSaT because the forms re-emerged right after they left it.

Yeah, Monaka-Beerus was definitely God-like Base A.K.A. New SSG. My reason for saying Goku was New SSG against Slim Buu is that Goku started the fight in Base. He never had any inclination to power-up. He jumped right into SS1 form against #17, meaning he knew #17 was around SS1-SS2 tier from his experience with #18 and talks with the other Z Fighters. Goku had seen how Buu powered-up while he was walking over to talk to Satan. Buu is around SS2-SS3 tier and I can imagine he made huge gains. To me, it just makes more sense for it to be New SSG versus Base form.

[Marlowe89]

I'm reconciling it really feasibly with the story and the article. You, on the other hand, keep adding unsubstantiated claims, mixing sources and indirectly contradicting the article's words. Notwithstanding the problem with your attitude, I'm afraid you just aren't very convincing.

Personally I think it's entertaining to see him constantly try to tip-toe around something so clear and explicit as "Saiyans with Godly power who change into Super Saiyans become SSGSS" using quite possibly the most absurd mental olympics I've seen in a while, but it's probably best to put the discussion to rest at this point. It's like someone insisting that the Earth is flat long after they've been shown overwhelming evidence to the contrary - you can't do anything but leave them to their own wonky devices after a while.