So is Goku supposed to allow Roshi...

[TBMx]

Give me one example where he has chased down a fleeing screaming woman.

The fact that it's a kid's cartoon is more reason not to include this as it was written. Makes it more misguided, not less.

"SJW" LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu_LCNLillU

If any child is like at dragon ball for guidance, they are already lost.

Children watch cartoons for fun do not have yet the critical faculties of most adults to reject the messages they're shown. Which means showing attempted rape in kids cartoons is more inappropriate than showing it in media targeted at more mature demographics. So the argument that "It's just a cartoon", is this Bizarro world where having characters appear to try and rape another is at it's most appropriate in kids cartoons?

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it is for 'children's media'.

[Simere]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it is for 'children's media'.

[TBMx]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it gets for 'children's media'.

Why are you placing "Children's media" in quotation? As if Dragonball isn't children's media?

The difference is that what Roshi did this episode is irresponsible and offensive on the level of conceptual writing and thematic message, so will be offensive regardless of it's visual format. Whereas violence can vary depending on visual presentation and message.

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

[Doctor.]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it gets for 'children's media'.

Why are you placing "Children's media" in quotation? As if Dragonball isn't children's media?

The difference is that what Roshi did this episode is irresponsible and offensive on the level of conceptual writing and thematic message, so will be offensive regardless of it's visual format. Whereas violence can vary depending on visual presentation and message.

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

Why is something offensive bad?

[Simere]

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

I hate telling someone to calm down, but you might honestly need to if you think that's why I linked that. Look at what I was responding to and think again.

I also hate being vague about the point, so I'll just say it plainly:

He said nary an instance.

I showed an instance.

[Basako]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it gets for 'children's media'.

Why are you placing "Children's media" in quotation? As if Dragonball isn't children's media?

The difference is that what Roshi did this episode is irresponsible and offensive on the level of conceptual writing and thematic message, so will be offensive regardless of it's visual format. Whereas violence can vary depending on visual presentation and message.

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

Why is something offensive bad?

Depends on what something, raping is kind of bad, dude. Maybe he wasn't going to rape her, but just saying it looked like that jumping into her. You know, two Red Ribbon army soldiers tryed to rape Bulma in DB, but they were bad guys, it was implyed to be a bad thing. I'm not a feminist, neither a social justice warrior or whatever, but this Roshi chasing the girl looked at least weird to me. What can I say...

[Doctor.]

Depends on what something, raping is kind of bad, dude. Maybe he wasn't going to rape her, but just saying it looked like that jumping into her. You know, two Red Ribbon army soldiers tryed to rape Bulma in DB, but they were bad guys, it was implyed to be a bad thing. I'm not a feminist, neither a social justice warrior or whatever, but this Roshi chasing the girl looked at least weird to me. What can I say...

He wasn't going to rape her considering he gets a nose bleed that makes him pass out at the mere sight of underwear. At best, he'd try to cop a feel. It's a cartoon, being offensive or not should be irrelevant. You've got videogames that glorify violence and murder such as GTA (and we all know kids play these games) and only the most extreme people actually care.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball is a series about using violence to resolve differences with nary an instance of someone suggesting they work out their problems through dialogue instead. That's as irresponsible as it gets for 'children's media'.

Why are you placing "Children's media" in quotation? As if Dragonball isn't children's media?

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

Dragon Ball is financially produced for kids. Whether it is a product actually acceptable for said audience is two different things.

And as for the one who showed a photo of android 16's head, again, the manga is black and white, the message is one of peace and tolerance, and the manga made it clear that 16 is entirely mechanical. I think it's frankly bizarre that there are fanboys here equating a detached robot head's mere image, to Roshi appearing to try to outright rape a human being. And Goku turning a blind eye.

I hate telling someone to calm down, but you might honestly need to if you think that's why I linked that. Look at what I was responding to and think again.

I also hate being vague about the point, so I'll just say it plainly:

He said nary an instance.

I showed an instance.

You gave an example of the justification of violence in response to me declaring there were no instances where dialogue was used or suggested to be used first and foremost?

[Basako]

Depends on what something, raping is kind of bad, dude. Maybe he wasn't going to rape her, but just saying it looked like that jumping into her. You know, two Red Ribbon army soldiers tryed to rape Bulma in DB, but they were bad guys, it was implyed to be a bad thing. I'm not a feminist, neither a social justice warrior or whatever, but this Roshi chasing the girl looked at least weird to me. What can I say...

He wasn't going to rape her considering he gets a nose bleed that makes him pass out at the mere sight of underwear. At best, he'd try to cop a feel. It's a cartoon, being offensive or not should be irrelevant. You've got videogames that glorify violence and murder such as GTA and only the most extreme people actually care.

I guess he was not going to, but not based on the images that were shown in this episode, more on what I know about him, that he wouldn't really harm anybody. I just think Toei could have handled his funny pervy manners a different way.

[Simere]

You gave an example of the justification of violence in response to me declaring there were no instances where dialogue was used or suggested to be used first and foremost?

You didn't say anything about first and foremost. You said "instead". 16 is explaining why that "instead" is not possible.

[Cipher]

I'm just going to respond holistically to a few posts:

The reason people care about things like sexual harrasment, especially in kids' shows, is that victims already have a notoriously hard time combatting it and being taken seriously. Portraying it as a source of light jokes feeds into that. It isn't something like violence or murder (GTA examples and even more absurdly the Dragon Ball examples above) where the severity of the real-world counterpart would never be up for debate.

It's the difference between something we very much consider criminal/abhorrent and something where the resulting attitude is still very often, "Oh, that's just boys being boys."

[Doctor.]

is that victims already have a notoriously hard time combatting it and being taken seriously.

They really don't. There's more of a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality regarding these cases than in any other. This isn't the 90s or the early 2000s. Sexual harassment is taken seriously and I'd prefer if we don't put it on a pedestal compared to other crimes that are much more severe and yet nobody cares when they're glorified in entertainment mediums.

[Cipher]

They really don't. There's more of a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality regarding these cases than in any other. This isn't the 90s or the early 2000s. Sexual harassment is taken seriously and I'd prefer if we don't put it on a pedestal compared to other crimes that are much more severe and yet nobody cares when they're glorified in entertainment mediums.

That's a selective reading based on, I can only guess, the fact that it's finally being taken somewhat seriously. An "it seems like there's more spotlight on this than other issues just because this one finally has a little bit of the spotlight compared to none" thing.

The U.S. news cycle is, right now, caught up in the tizzy of accusations aimed at a culture of harassment that went on for decades and decades at Fox News, an enormously powerful media outlet. That all went on until ... this year.

And so maybe it is finally being taken seriously, but, like, good? Let's not backslide? We're, what, only a handful of years away from on-the-record comments from lawmakers as absurd as (U.S. politics) "The body has ways of shutting that whole process down"? (I'm fairly certain as someone who follows the news that I've read things nearly as bad in recent memory. Actually, hell, the U.S. recently elected someone despite certain unconcerned genital-grabbing comments.) Japan still has separate train cars on some lines for women because of the frequency of groping (and that's in response to a full-on criminal situation; not borderline harrasment cases). It doesn't track or sit well to keep offering these situations up as a joke to young kids. I guess, like, ask me again in twenty years when we're genuinely removed from those kinds of attitudes.

[Lord Beerus]

I do agree that the "Roshi being a perv" gag has become old hat and felt a bit dragged out in the latest episode of Super. But in all fairness, he eventually did get comeuppance by getting punched in the balls and made into Yurin's slave to do her bidding. People who are saying that Roshi was to "rape" her are really taking it to the extreme. It's no better that when Roshi turned himself small to take a peek at Bulma when she was using the bathroom, or when he was rubbing Bulma's ass, or when he grabbed Maron's breast and when he literally motorboarded Chi Chi and Android 18. And in Android 18's case, he also squeezed her breast and did it right in front of her infant daughter. Roshi really acted no different in the latest episode of Super compared to what he has done in the past.

[Doctor.]

That's a selective reading based on, I can only guess, the fact that it's finally being taken somewhat seriously. An "it seems like there's more spotlight on this than other issues just because this one finally has a little bit of the spotlight compared to none" thing.

The U.S. news cycle is, right now, caught up in the tizzy of accusations aimed at a culture of harassment that went on for decades and decades at Fox News, an enormously powerful media outlet. That all went on until ... this year.

And so maybe it is finally being taken seriously, but, like, good? Let's not backslide? We're, what, only a handful of years away from on-the-record comments from lawmakers as absurd as (U.S. politics) "The body has ways of shutting that whole process down"? I'm certain as someone who follows the news that I've read things nearly as bad in recent memory. Japan still has separate train cars on some lines for women because of the frequency of groping (and that's in response to a full-on criminal situation; not borderline harrasment cases). It doesn't track or sit well to keep offering these situations up as a joke. I guess, like, ask me again in twenty years when we're genuinely removed from those kinds of attitudes.

Considering how many people get falsely accused of "rape" or "sexual harassment" and get their lives ruined because of it, be it with prison or simply by having their personal relationships shattered, I'm going to have to call you out on it only being taken "somewhat" seriously. It's not, it's taken completely seriously; some people go as far as saying those are crimes worse than murder.

There are exceptions to every case, it doesn't mean that they're the norm. Plus, it's Fox News we're talking about.

How are some isolated incidents in a cartoon that doesn't take itself seriously and doesn't glorify the acts it's portraying, "backsliding"? If anything, they're saying "you see this? This isn't okay. But just as we never take anything seriously in this show, we're not gonna make a big deal out of it, just like we don't make a big deal out of Vegeta being a mass murderer or Goku killing relatively innocent soldiers as a child. Just be sure not to do it, aight?"

[SansrivaaL]

We are definitely in the modern times eaten by such standards, like back then WWE superstars beating the hell out of females was a thing until they stopped doing it, I'm surprised Toei actually put this considering some people would go mad like so... I personally didn't feel anything bad from it for certain reasons (1. Yurin is a strong willed girl, she even talks in a manly manner "refers to herself as ore rather than watashi and her daze at the end of some sentences" 2. If Roshi was seriously planning to rape her or something that looks bad... he could have, and Goku knows that, the reason Goku let it go is because he saw Roshi just playing around. 3. Its not funny for some anymore because of how feminists changed some of our views and our very vocal about stuffs like this, back in the days we saw Roshi literally groping 18 a married woman infront of her child, nothing of the sort happened this episode, we barely even saw Roshi lay a hand on her besides carrying her. 4. Its not like FT/OP or certain ecchi animes like ToLoveRu/DxD/shinmai etc, one for instance is Eromanga sensei airing right now, we see cleavage, ass popping out from a lil girl and boobs jiggling around, none of that was visualized this episode, at best Yurin's skirt just got loose and we didn't even see anything) so do I see it as something offensive? no, far from it, I have watched too many anime and read too many manga and compared to what Roshi did, its not even worth mentioning.

[precita]

Do Dragonball fans actually watch other anime? Because what happened in this episode, or Dragonball in general, is nowhere as bad as how sexualized female characters, especially young loli type girls are in all other anime. Yes this had a dirty old man going nuts, but Yurin was in her 30's at least (in the flashback to Dragonball she was only a little younger than Tien, so she has to be 30 something now), and she was still a fighter and not a normal helpless female.

There are other anime that show girls as young as 8-12 year old completely naked or fondling each other in sexual positions, wearing creepy outfits, etc. The fact that one of the most popular anime from last year had two 12 year old girls kissing each other and being nude in a lot of episodes shows what kind of country Japan is.

[TBMx]

Violence is not always a bad message for kids or anyone. Sometimes violence is justified as there are some people mere words will not reach. That has been the theme of dragonball, and there's nothing wrong with that. However Roshi chasing terrified women, charging at them while they're screaming and only pulling himself back because "They popped out", for Goku to see him chasing her, hearing her screams, only to leave him to it, absolutely crosses the line. Did he ever apologize? No. Drawing false equivalences between high fantasy, highly stylized combat based violence and what appears to be attempted rape is to miss things like nuance and context and is frankly rape apologia. As a joke it fails, as evidenced by the fact that this so called lighthearted segment is being directly compared to the violence of the series, and lolicon that does not air on mainstream children's tv slots.

[Doctor.]

Violence is not always a bad message for kids or anyone. Sometimes violence is justified as there are some people mere words will not reach. That has been the theme of dragonball, and there's nothing wrong with that. However Roshi chasing terrified women, charging at them while they're screaming and only pulling himself back because "They popped out", for Goku to see him chasing her, hearing her screams, only to leave him to it, absolutely crosses the line. Did he ever apologize? No. Drawing false equivalences between high fantasy, highly stylized combat based violence and what appears to be attempted rape is to miss things like nuance and context and is frankly rape apologia. As a joke it fails, as evidenced by the fact that this so called lighthearted segment is being directly compared to the violence of the series, and lolicon that does not air on mainstream children's tv slots.

Why does it cross the line if it's portrayed as something bad?

It seems like you're the one missing nuance and context if you think Roshi was "attempting rape" when the old man can barely see any underwear before passing out.