So is Goku supposed to allow Roshi...

[gofishus]

Do Dragonball fans actually watch other anime? Because what happened in this episode, or Dragonball in general, is nowhere as bad as how sexualized female characters, especially young loli type girls are in all other anime. Yes this had a dirty old man going nuts, but Yurin was in her 30's at least (in the flashback to Dragonball she was only a little younger than Tien, so she has to be 30 something now), and she was still a fighter and not a normal helpless female.

There are other anime that show girls as young as 8-12 year old completely naked or fondling each other in sexual positions, wearing creepy outfits, etc. The fact that one of the most popular anime from last year had two 12 year old girls kissing each other and being nude in a lot of episodes shows what kind of country Japan is.

I still feel better living in a country having lots of sexual fetishizing than a country where there's over 300 million firearms that pretty much anyone can get over the counter, just imo...

[TekTheNinja]

It sort of reminded me of the bit in Shimoneta when the main character basically almost gets raped, but it's played for laughs because he's a dude and for some dumbass reason that's not taken nearly as seriously as when it's a woman in the same situation. That was WAY more awkward than this though.

Original Dragon Ball handled Roshi gags much better than here because he always either got beat up for it, or it didn't go this far, or both.

[Kanassa]

Original Dragon Ball handled Roshi gags much better than here because he always either got beat up for it, or it didn't go this far, or both.

No one kicked his ass after he felt up the unconscious Ranfan.

[HeroR]

Original Dragon Ball handled Roshi gags much better than here because he always either got beat up for it, or it didn't go this far, or both.

No one kicked his ass after he felt up the unconscious Ranfan.

Or how about when Krillin lifted her shirt so Roshi would nose bleed on the Invisible Man? He also tried to touched Launch after Goku kicked her unconscious and only stopped because Goku demanded training.

As for Goku not doing anything, are we forgetting that this is the same person who sold out his childhood to Old Kai by saying he could touch her boobs? Before then, he tried to get Videl who was 16 in the manga? Even Gohan called that sexual harassment.

[Simere]

As for Goku not doing anything, are we forgetting that this is the same person who sold out his childhood to Old Kai by saying he could touch her boobs? Before then, he tried to get Videl who was 16 in the manga? Even Gohan called that sexual harassment.

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

[HeroR]

As for Goku not doing anything, are we forgetting that this is the same person who sold out his childhood to Old Kai by saying he could touch her boobs? Before then, he tried to get Videl who was 16 in the manga? Even Gohan called that sexual harassment.

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

It wasn't voluntarily at all. He gave them up before he asked their permission. He just assumed they would agree or be alright with it because 'it will save the Earth'.

[Simere]

As for Goku not doing anything, are we forgetting that this is the same person who sold out his childhood to Old Kai by saying he could touch her boobs? Before then, he tried to get Videl who was 16 in the manga? Even Gohan called that sexual harassment.

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

It wasn't voluntarily at all. He gave them up before he asked their permission. He just assumed they would agree or be alright with it because 'it will save the Earth'.

He was going to have Gohan ask them to do it.

Even in your version it implies consent if he's thinking they'd agree to it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It sort of reminded me of the bit in Shimoneta when the main character basically almost gets raped, but it's played for laughs because he's a dude and for some dumbass reason that's not taken nearly as seriously as when it's a woman in the same situation. That was WAY more awkward than this though.

Original Dragon Ball handled Roshi gags much better than here because he always either got beat up for it, or it didn't go this far, or both.

Let's see in this episode, Roshi got kicked in the nards, turned into a zombie and Kamehameha'd by Goku. Also "this far" he just chased her around a room hardly anything worse to his previous antics, I mean he literally had himself and little boys dress up in lingerie...

[HeroR]

He was going to have Gohan ask them to do it.

Even in your version it implies consent if he's thinking they'd agree to it.

He only told Gohan to asked them after he already sealed the deal with Old Kai. It wasn't consent since the deal was done since Old Kai only unlocked Gohan's power so he can feel some boobs. In other words, the money has already exchanged hands.

[Simere]

He was going to have Gohan ask them to do it.

Even in your version it implies consent if he's thinking they'd agree to it.

He only told Gohan to asked them after he already sealed the deal with Old Kai. It wasn't consent since the deal was done since Old Kai only unlocked Gohan's power so he can feel some boobs. In other words, the money has already exchanged hands.

No, it was before. I don't think it matters much even it was after...it's not like he was going to hold her down or something if she didn't agree it. That's why I said it implies consent; not because consent has been established, but because consent is clearly going to be sought. That's why you do payment up front in exchange for services, as Old Kai learned. Or at least make the contract with the party who can actually deliver the goods.

[HeroR]

No, it was before. I don't think it matters much even it was after...it's not like he was going to hold her down or something if she didn't agree it. That's why I said it implies consent; not because consent has been established, but because consent is clearly going to be sought. That's why you do payment up front in exchange for services, as Old Kai learned. Or at least make the contract with the party who can actually deliver the goods.

It couldn't be before since Gohan didn't leave the planet to go asked Bulma if it was okay for her boobs to be jiggled. There is no such thing as 'implies consent'. It is either consent or not. Goku didn't asked for Bulma's consent. By the time Gohan goes to 'asked' her the deal would have been done and would be obligated to let Old Kai touched her boobs. And the fact that he would asked that of anyone is extremely insensitive in the first place.

[Simere]

No, it was before. I don't think it matters much even it was after...it's not like he was going to hold her down or something if she didn't agree it. That's why I said it implies consent; not because consent has been established, but because consent is clearly going to be sought. That's why you do payment up front in exchange for services, as Old Kai learned. Or at least make the contract with the party who can actually deliver the goods.

It couldn't be before since Gohan didn't leave the planet to go asked Bulma if it was okay for her boobs to be jiggled. There is no such thing as 'implies consent'. It is either consent or not. Goku didn't asked for Bulma's consent. By the time Gohan goes to 'asked' her the deal would have been done and would be obligated to let Old Kai touched her boobs. And the fact that he would asked that of anyone is extremely insensitive in the first place.

There's obviously a such thing as implied consent, but that's not what I said. I said your version [of how things went down] implies consent, as in consent was being considered in the situation, because you said "he just assumed they would agree or be alright with it".

But your version is not the correct version so we don't need to keep talking about it. I didn't say Bulma was asked before the deal was made. I said he asked Gohan to ask Bulma before he agreed to the deal. Which means he wasn't picturing that Bulma would be forced into it, that he understood she would have to agree to it(consent), which means that your argument equating these two situations is wrong. No one's obligated to do anything they didn't agree to. Someone else who doesn't have the authority can't agree on your behalf.

Insensitivity isn't a similar thing as sexual assault.

[HeroR]

No, it was before
There's obviously a such thing as implied consent, but that's not what I said. I said your version [of how things went down] implies consent, as in consent was being considered in the situation, because you said "he just assumed they would agree or be alright with it".

But your version is not the correct version so we don't need to keep talking about it. I didn't say Bulma was asked before the deal was made. I said he asked Gohan to ask Bulma before he agreed to the deal. Which means he wasn't picturing that Bulma would be forced into it, that he understood she would have to agree to it(consent), which means that your argument equating these two situations is wrong. No one's obligated to do anything they didn't agree to. Someone else who doesn't have the authority can't agree on your behalf.

Insensitivity isn't a similar thing as sexual assault.

As Gohan said, it's sexual assault, which is what Goku was doing. That or do you just want to call it prostitution. And no, asking Bulma after the service is done and not asking permission.

[Simere]

As Gohan said, it's sexual assault, which is what Goku was doing. That or do you just want to call it prostitution. And no, asking Bulma after the service is done and not asking permission.

Harassment, wasn't it? In the manga was it even touching that was the deal? Was it not just flirting? Regardless, It might fall under some strictly legal definition of sexual harassment, but it hardly passes muster for layman conception of the term.

It doesn't matter if he asked for permission. It matters that he thought permission was needed.

Also, you keep coming back to the agreement as if it means something. If you agreed with a friend of mine that you would fix his car if I took you to see Broly God 4D and you went ahead and performed the service, I wouldn't give a fuck what he agreed to when you came round to collect; nor could I be contractually compelled to give a fuck. No way I'm seeing that.

[cheddarsword]

I still feel better living in a country having lots of sexual fetishizing than a country where there's over 300 million firearms that pretty much anyone can get over the counter, just imo...

Ugh, seriously? You brought THAT kind of politics into a DRAGON BALL DISCUSSION!?

You know what, I'd I would argue against you on this point, but I won't do that. Do you know why? Because I respect this website.

I don't know about you but with the world that I myself live in, it's nice to have a place I can go to shut out the garbage of the world and just talk about the things i like. I go on youtube and I'm bombarded with video suggestions for crap I don't even want to hear about. I go to check my email and I'm bombarded by ads for the same thing. I go to play Super Mario Bros. Crossover, and the god damn adds slow the game down so freakin' much, I HAVE to use an ad blocker just to play the damn game!

So it's nice that at least ONE website doesn't have any of that. It doesn't have the politics that i'm tired of hearing about. It doesn't have shit I don't want to talk about. Hell, I'd be willing to put up with the ads if the staff wanted them because this site is so good that they wouldn't matter!

So please, for the sake of the members like me who NEED a place to just talk about their favorite anime and shut the world out, don't bring that world into it. I don't mean to over ride the site staff by any means but I'm begging you. PLEASE don't bring that shit here.

[JulieYBM]

I'm just going to respond holistically to a few posts:

The reason people care about things like sexual harrasment, especially in kids' shows, is that victims already have a notoriously hard time combatting it and being taken seriously. Portraying it as a source of light jokes feeds into that. It isn't something like violence or murder (GTA examples and even more absurdly the Dragon Ball examples above) where the severity of the real-world counterpart would never be up for debate.

It's the difference between something we very much consider criminal/abhorrent and something where the resulting attitude is still very often, "Oh, that's just boys being boys."

Crazy people who can't tell the difference between fiction and actual violence against actual people have no place discussing fiction. Singling out one form of action in fiction (as opposed to say, singling out another form of violence against someone) is hardly doing the real victims of any other form of violence justice, either. Combating actual violence against actual people won't happen with protecting the writes of fictional characters, it'll start with educating real people.

[HeroR]

As Gohan said, it's sexual assault, which is what Goku was doing. That or do you just want to call it prostitution. And no, asking Bulma after the service is done and not asking permission.

Harassment, wasn't it? In the manga was it even touching that was the deal? Was it not just flirting? Regardless, It might fall under some strictly legal definition of sexual harassment, but it hardly passes muster for layman conception of the term.

It doesn't matter if he asked for permission. It matters that he thought permission was needed.

Also, you keep coming back to the agreement as if it means something. If you agreed with a friend of mine that you would fix his car if I took you to see Broly God 4D and you went ahead and performed the service, I wouldn't give a fuck what he agreed to when you came round to collect; nor could I be contractually compelled to give a fuck. No way I'm seeing that.

Yes, in the manga Gohan straight up called it sexual harassment. And it wasn't flirting, Goku promised that he could touch Bulma's boobs. When Vegeta got on him for this and he told him to used his own wife, Goku said that Chi-Chi's boobs had no bounce.

Yes it means something. Goku promised boobs for a service. Old Kai agreed without Bulma having any say in the matter. Bulma may say no, but Old Kai will still try to touch her boobs because 'that was promised'.

[Simere]

called it sexual harassment. And it wasn't flirting, Goku promised that he could touch Bulma's boobs. When Vegeta got on him for this and he told him to used his own wife, Goku said that Chi-Chi's boobs had no bounce.

Okay, I haven't thoroughly read a legit translation of the manga. The one I read just said flirting first and then pictures later for the Namekian Dragon Balls.

Yes it means something. Goku promised boobs for a service. Old Kai agreed without Bulma having any say in the matter. Bulma may say no, but Old Kai will still try to touch her boobs because 'that was promised'.

Assuming he would do that, that's on him and him alone. "But I was promised" is not a defense that holds any weight. I return to what I originally said: Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

The only "crime" Goku committed there was to make an agreement he had no means or intention of fulfilling.

[HeroR]

called it sexual harassment. And it wasn't flirting, Goku promised that he could touch Bulma's boobs. When Vegeta got on him for this and he told him to used his own wife, Goku said that Chi-Chi's boobs had no bounce.

Okay, I haven't thoroughly read a legit translation of the manga. The one I read just said flirting first and then pictures later for the Namekian Dragon Balls.

Yes it means something. Goku promised boobs for a service. Old Kai agreed without Bulma having any say in the matter. Bulma may say no, but Old Kai will still try to touch her boobs because 'that was promised'.

Assuming he would do that, that's on him and him alone. "But I was promised" is not a defense that holds any weight. I return to what I originally said: Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

The only "crime" Goku committed there was to make an agreement he had no means or intention of fulfilling.

This isn't about 'crime'. It's about Goku prostituting his childhood friend without a care and before then, he wanted to used Videl who was 16 at the time.

[Simere]

called it sexual harassment. And it wasn't flirting, Goku promised that he could touch Bulma's boobs. When Vegeta got on him for this and he told him to used his own wife, Goku said that Chi-Chi's boobs had no bounce.

Okay, I haven't thoroughly read a legit translation of the manga. The one I read just said flirting first and then pictures later for the Namekian Dragon Balls.

Yes it means something. Goku promised boobs for a service. Old Kai agreed without Bulma having any say in the matter. Bulma may say no, but Old Kai will still try to touch her boobs because 'that was promised'.

Assuming he would do that, that's on him and him alone. "But I was promised" is not a defense that holds any weight. I return to what I originally said: Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.

The only "crime" Goku committed there was to make an agreement he had no means or intention of fulfilling.

This isn't about 'crime'. It's about Goku prostituting his childhood friend without a care and before then, he wanted to used Videl who was 16 at the time.

You sure love focusing on the side points I make. I guess I should stop making them if you can't focus on the primary point.

Asking a girl and having her voluntarily allow it is not similar to it being done involuntarily.