What's everyone's thoughts on *SPOILER* ​coming back?

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

So if Freeza does join the team, do you think they'll alter the opening to place Freeza where buu was? He only shows up three times, which I think they could easily swap out Freeza for Buu. Still don't want that to happen but it is a nice misdirection so far.

[Asura]

Super is known for cool ideas with mediocre to downright terrible executions. Kind of like a certain other Dragonball spin-off.

I assume this will unfortunately be no different. I've completely lost faith in the writing after last week's episode (not that I had much faith to begin with.) Freeza will probably be written as a boring generic evil baddy that betrays the team the second the match starts even though it wouldn't beneficial to him, and the arc as a whole will probably suffer from his presence.

I guarantee you that this will not go the way you all want it to.

[precita]

It's quite possible Freeza makes a bargain with the God's or Super Dragonballs to restore his life if they win. If that's the case Freeza will probably go on to be the main villain in the next arc. I could see him going after the other Gods like Zamasu did in an attempt to take over.

[Cipher]

I guarantee you that this will not go the way you all want it to.

That could describe Super as a whole whether or not Freeza makes his return. At least it'll be frustrating with an interesting concept instead of frustrating with a staid concept?

I'm excited by the idea but not under any illusions about the quality of the writing the show sees on a weekly basis.

[avasatu]

We don't actually know if Frieza will kick Buu out of the tournie, do we? All we know is that Buu will be sleeping, and Frieza will be asked.

[Chuquita]

I think it's entirely within this show's wheelhouse to tease Freeza to drive up hype and then make him not join after all to create yet another plot twist (think of how many not!endings the Zamasu arc had.)

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Call me simple, but I've been liking these recruitment episodes. I like this pacing, and I'm glad that #17 got TWO episodes centered around him. I also felt that the Tenshinhan recruitment scenario could've been extended into a two-parter, but mainly to highlight the Son Goku/Ten/Chaozu friendship. It ended up being a big missed opportunity though, imo.

Why the rush getting into the ToP from some people? The only thing kinda playing against the recruiting thing is the super-ridiculous time-frame that had been given to recruit 10 members from each Uni (really? 48 hours to recruit and prepare for something of this scale?). If you think about it, the recruiting stuff isn't doing so bad with the time. It's just that we have to wait a week to see a new 20-minute episode, so this whole thing may feel like it's unnecessarily getting drug out. I don't know -- I guess that I've just enjoyed the downtime episodes in Super rather than PLOT, FIGHT, PLOT, FIGHT. Character interactions and relationship dynamics establish why we should care about the fate of these characters in this tournament to begin with.

IF the Freeza thing is seriously going to be a card that is pulled to spice things up, then I'll accept it for what it is -- because what else can we do? Drop the series? In exchange, however *dramatically slams fist down on poorly constructed table*, I demand that Cell be brought back at some point down the road before this series closes out, TOEI -- and not for mockery and ridicule purposes. Bones have been thrown out all around for other things...

*Picks up oar and rows along downstream*

[HeroR]

I don't know what shocked me more, the reveal itself or the amount of people saying they're okay with it, some people talking about this like it will redeem Freeza after Resurrection F....but...this goes against his character completely! He would never ever work together with Goku under any circumstance and since he's dead he doesn't care about the fate of the universe at all. People keep saying they'll probably get Beerus to threaten him into doing it but that makes no sense either, Beerus has nothing to threaten Freeza with, he's already dead for crying out loud!

I hated Resurrection F too and I wish it was never made, but this isn't better, it's not improving anything about Freeza's character, at least he was in character in Resurrection F.

Super doesn't at all feel like how Toriyama would have continued the manga if he kept writing it instead of ending it at the time, he always tried to forget things from previous arcs and power on with new things for better or for worse, yes he brought back Pilaf, Tao Pai Pai and Freeza in the original manga but those were small appearances used to prop up other things in the story arc (Pilaf used to prop up Piccolo, Tao used to prop up Tenshinhan's growth and Freeza used to prop up Trunks/fake out as villain of the arc) but he would never do what Toei and Shueisha seem to want him to do with Super, which is to bring back things for the sake of nostalgia. This news has gotten me in a shitty mood.

Toei and Shueisha can't make him do anything. He comes up with the story, Toei just adapts them. And why would a series feel exactly the same it did 30 years ago? People change, people grow, and they're not going to produced the exact same thing they made decades ago. Also, Toriyama wrote Resurrection 'F' all by himself. Toei had nothing to do with the script.

In that case dude needs his Vince Mcmahon to filter his dumb ideas from the good ones. Someone get in contact with his old Jump editor.

I feel the need to point out that his old, harsher editor loved Resurrection 'F'. You know, the movie that fans love the crap on.

You know, one thing that makes me think this Freeza stuff might just be a one and done ordeal is the fact the episode is supervised by Kitano. 17, Gohan, Krillin, Buu himself, all were treated like important episodes, supervised by the best guys who work on the show. Would they really give Kitano such a big episode?

Unless the episode ends with Goku getting to Hell and it's the next one where Freeza actually appears in any major capacity.

I like this theory.

93's also being written by Fukushima, and they tend to get lighter, fillery episodes. Like Fukushima's most recent eps were 89 and 83.

Is there any way to guess by rotation who probably is doing 94?

Fukushima did the Gohan and Piccolo training episode where Gohan got Ultimate back.

Super is known for cool ideas with mediocre to downright terrible executions. Kind of like a certain other Dragonball spin-off.

I assume this will unfortunately be no different. I've completely lost faith in the writing after last week's episode (not that I had much faith to begin with.) Freeza will probably be written as a boring generic evil baddy that betrays the team the second the match starts even though it wouldn't beneficial to him, and the arc as a whole will probably suffer from his presence.

I guarantee you that this will not go the way you all want it to.

You got it backwards. Super is know for having fanfics ideas that surprisingly work well. That is the general feeling. What you wrote is what the most vocal parts keep saying. Most people here bitch about 'evil Goku' until they saw Goku Black.

As for the bolded, can't wait since things usually end up better than I think outside of a few times.

[Ki Breaker]

It's wonderful, Goku and freeza's interactions in rof movie compliments this decision very well..

[buutenks]

TBH, I think it would be so much more interesting with Freeza there, compared to Buu. Buu doesn't even talk much, he's like the Hulk, me smash, me beat you etc. Where with Freeza u got all the potential interactions. It will be fun. And I don't understand how people think RoF the movie is bad, sure the retelling of RoF was bad apart from an episode. But the movie itself was good.

[Forte224]

TBH, I think it would be so much more interesting with Freeza there, compared to Buu. Buu doesn't even talk much, he's like the Hulk, me smash, me beat you etc. Where with Freeza u got all the potential interactions. It will be fun. And I don't understand how people think RoF the movie is bad, sure the retelling of RoF was bad apart from an episode. But the movie itself was good.

Thank you, I agree! It was a fun movie with good animation. Kinda what Dragon Ball is supposed to be, isn't it? Plot inconsistencies are a bummer but we've always had those

[SansrivaaL]

I was fine with RF, its a GT like feel for me, like the horrible part in GT was making Goku a kid again and RF was the bad CGI (I hate CGI), but both were very entertaining.

[Deathbringer]

I don't know what shocked me more, the reveal itself or the amount of people saying they're okay with it, some people talking about this like it will redeem Freeza after Resurrection F....but...this goes against his character completely! He would never ever work together with Goku under any circumstance and since he's dead he doesn't care about the fate of the universe at all. People keep saying they'll probably get Beerus to threaten him into doing it but that makes no sense either, Beerus has nothing to threaten Freeza with, he's already dead for crying out loud!

I hated Resurrection F too and I wish it was never made, but this isn't better, it's not improving anything about Freeza's character, at least he was in character in Resurrection F.

Super doesn't at all feel like how Toriyama would have continued the manga if he kept writing it instead of ending it at the time, he always tried to forget things from previous arcs and power on with new things for better or for worse, yes he brought back Pilaf, Tao Pai Pai and Freeza in the original manga but those were small appearances used to prop up other things in the story arc (Pilaf used to prop up Piccolo, Tao used to prop up Tenshinhan's growth and Freeza used to prop up Trunks/fake out as villain of the arc) but he would never do what Toei and Shueisha seem to want him to do with Super, which is to bring back things for the sake of nostalgia. This news has gotten me in a shitty mood.

Toei and Shueisha can't make him do anything. He comes up with the story, Toei just adapts them. And why would a series feel exactly the same it did 30 years ago? People change, people grow, and they're not going to produced the exact same thing they made decades ago. Also, Toriyama wrote Resurrection 'F' all by himself. Toei had nothing to do with the script.

We may never know the full story of what's happening behind the scenes but it's either that Toei/Shueisha are asking him to bring back things that people have nostalgia for so they can market them or he just thinks he needs to do that himself because he thinks that's what the fans want. I'm well aware that Toriyama wrote Resurrection F, that's why Freeza was so in-character in that movie, but with this there's no way they can get him to work with Goku without having to ruin his character in the process. I'm not saying change is a bad thing I'm saying he used to be a better writer when he was making it up as he went along every week under the pressure of an editor and a time limit, back when he actively went against what the fans wanted. Now he's re-hashing Freeza's character 3 times in the space of 2 years. He's changing, but not growing.

Overall I still love things like expanding the lore of the gods and the other universes, I just feel that there are some things in the modern stuff that go against what made the series so great.

[Xeogran]

I was fine with RF, its a GT like feel for me, like the horrible part in GT was making Goku a kid again and RF was the bad CGI (I hate CGI), but both were very entertaining.

Hey, Goku being a kid again gave us a badass chibi SSJ3 design we couldn't ever see from Goten. And a fun character for many games he's been in now.

[SansrivaaL]

I was fine with RF, its a GT like feel for me, like the horrible part in GT was making Goku a kid again and RF was the bad CGI (I hate CGI), but both were very entertaining.

Hey, Goku being a kid again gave us a badass chibi SSJ/SSJ3 design we couldn't ever see from Goten. And a fun character for many games he's been in now.

I hated it, I wanted to see more adult Goku wearing blue Gi! chibi SSJ Goten was... kinda... cool? and we had SSJ3 Gotenks which was also... kinda.... cool?

[Chuquita]

Things aren't quite yet to GT levels of disappointment for me (turning Gokû into a child and not changing him back until the last scene in the last episode is still worse to me than bringing Freeza back a 3rd time) but I'm incredibly wary about how this arc will play out.

[Ki Breaker]

TBH, I think it would be so much more interesting with Freeza there, compared to Buu. Buu doesn't even talk much, he's like the Hulk, me smash, me beat you etc. Where with Freeza u got all the potential interactions. It will be fun. And I don't understand how people think RoF the movie is bad, sure the retelling of RoF was bad apart from an episode. But the movie itself was good.

The movie was fantastic, the interactions were great and it laid the perfect foundation for freeza returning..

Buu is a good character but if fighters are going for tactics buu will be out in no time, the guy let's people hit him to oblivion and then decides to open his eyes and fuck shit up, he will be ringed out by an intelligent fighter fast..

Freeza in the other hand, has only lost to goku and goku alone till date, he is a danger to everyone if writing of his character is what we go by..

[HeroR]

We may never know the full story of what's happening behind the scenes but it's either that Toei/Shueisha are asking him to bring back things that people have nostalgia for so they can market them or he just thinks he needs to do that himself because he thinks that's what the fans want. I'm well aware that Toriyama wrote Resurrection F, that's why Freeza was so in-character in that movie, but with this there's no way they can get him to work with Goku without having to ruin his character in the process. I'm not saying change is a bad thing I'm saying he used to be a better writer when he was making it up as he went along every week under the pressure of an editor and a time limit, back when he actively went against what the fans wanted. Now he's re-hashing Freeza's character 3 times in the space of 2 years. He's changing, but not growing.

Overall I still love things like expanding the lore of the gods and the other universes, I just feel that there are some things in the modern stuff that go against what made the series so great.

Why do you think Toei/Shueisha are asking for Freeza back when Toriyama did it himself and wrote Resurrection 'F'. And he is still going against what fans want given the salt in this thread and others. He did the same thing when he brought Vegetto back with a time limit and how he took out Buu for the Champa Saga. He's even more of a troll now.

[Asura]

Super is known for cool ideas with mediocre to downright terrible executions. Kind of like a certain other Dragonball spin-off.

I assume this will unfortunately be no different. I've completely lost faith in the writing after last week's episode (not that I had much faith to begin with.) Freeza will probably be written as a boring generic evil baddy that betrays the team the second the match starts even though it wouldn't beneficial to him, and the arc as a whole will probably suffer from his presence.

I guarantee you that this will not go the way you all want it to.

You got it backwards. Super is know for having fanfics ideas that surprisingly work well. That is the general feeling. What you wrote is what the most vocal parts keep saying. Most people here bitch about 'evil Goku' until they saw Goku Black.

As for the bolded, can't wait since things usually end up better than I think outside of a few times.

Evil Goku never existed though. It was just something the fans made up. From almost the very beginning of his appearance it was made known that this wasn't an evil Goku, but someone in Goku's body. You can't praise TOEI/Toriyama for turning a bad idea into a good one when the bad idea never existed to begin with.

That being said, they did handle Black very well. Yet the rest of the arc was an absolute disaster clusterfuck. Bringing Trunks back? Great idea! Having him get random ass power boosts with zero explanation making him on par with SSB as well as creating a spirit bomb? To the point where many people who liked Trunks from Z want to never see him return in Super ever again? Not such great execution.

Having the villain be a Kai gone rogue? Great idea! Having him be vastly inferior and less interesting than his Goku Black counterpart that later goes away completely once they fuse? Bad execution.

Having Goku and Vegeta go into Trunk's timeline to help fight instead of the other way around during the Android saga? Great idea! Having the time travel mechanics be so completely fucked and convoluted that TOEI literally needed to create a graph explaining it on their website? Bad execution.

Having Trunks' time travelling be a sin that is now causing his world to get destroyed, despite the fact that he had to time travel just to save his world from getting destroyed the first time? What a great conflict and a great idea. Having to send Trunks into some random ass timeline where a carbon copy of himself and Mai exist instead of just staying in the current timeline or finding some way to get his world back as a result? Bad execution.

Having a 5v5 tournament against another universe in which Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Buu all participate? Great idea! Having Buu not even show up and Piccolo being forced to forfeit in favor of Vegeta? Having the only two fighters that do anything at all be Goku & Vegeta? Bad execution.

Retelling the movie arcs so that you could stretch them out and add more things and given an alternate take on the events of the movie? Great idea! Not actually doing any of those things and straight up retelling the movie with worse animation, art, and budget? Bad execution.

Having an arc that brings back all the old school players like Krillin & Roshi? Great idea, now we just need to find out how to make them useful with actual techniques and strategies since they lack the power of Goku & Vegeta. Oh, what's that? We're just going to make them magically stronger with barely an explanation? Bad execution.

And worst of all, creating a villain so powerful that the only chance of stopping him is to fuse into Vegetto once more? Making him go SSB? GREAT idea! Retconning the permanency of the potara and putting a 5 minute time limit on it causing the fusion to forever be useless? The worst possible execution imaginable.

I could go on and on. The point is that the writing is all over the place, has always been all over the place, and every time something is set up to seem really interesting or hyped up, they flub it every single time in the worst possible way. I can almost guarantee with certainty (although as always, I hope I eat my words) if this Freeza thing isn't a ruse, that his character will be handled horribly, and a few months from now most of us will be saying "Wow, that sure was cool that Freeza was fighting alongside Goku, too bad the execution left much to be desired."

[perucho1990]

The most people that disliked Trunks in Episode 66 are the hardcore fans in this site, and some from the youtube community.

On facebook they enjoyed the episode despite the wacky logic, I guess thats what Toyotaro meant when he mentioned that making the scene entertaining is more important than making it logical.

I always had the issue with Roshi, he said in the manga that he cant catch up to the Z-fighters anymore yet Toriyama mentions that Roshi "was always this strong", if anything blame Toriyama for including Roshi and you could blame him as well for trolling Buu and bringing back Freeza.

Toei isnt 100% perfect but most of the blame should go to Toriyama for the controversial decisions.

Frieza returning could work, use him to set up Frost face turn, what we know about Frost so far is that he is just a Space Pirate, he isnt racist/sadistic prick like Freeza.