The manga's ending vs GT's ending

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Yeah if anything, we were introduced to Goku Jr in the TV special that aired before, so it's not like they were an after thought. Although Vegeta Jr could have been.

[ABED]

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. weren't important to the plot whereas Uub was.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Yeah, uub had a point to his presence. I was just saying Goku Jr. just didn't seem as random since he was introduced in a prior special.

[ABED]

Yeah, uub had a point to his presence. I was just saying Goku Jr. just didn't seem as random since he was introduced in a prior special.

My comment wasn't aimed at you. Sorry 'bout that.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Yeah, uub had a point to his presence. I was just saying Goku Jr. just didn't seem as random since he was introduced in a prior special.

My comment wasn't aimed at you. Sorry 'bout that.

Nope my bad for misunderstanding.

[Kokonoe]

I feel as if GT's ending is trying to impact more in an emotional way at the cost of making next to no sense and felt as if the ending was written for another series just due to how much it doesn't fit the theme of the show nor the characterization of Goku. Like, why is it a mystery to all where Goku ends up? The worst thing that can happen in the series is that you die, and if he's going with Shenron to guard the earth or whatever, why is that even necessary in the first place? Why not just protect earth and still be around your family and friends you could possibly train with?

It's a mystery just for the sake of being a mystery. It plays really well on the emotions of the fans of the series, but in the end it doesn't add up.

Goku makes a deal with Shen Long. He has no option to stay on Earth. I don't see the mystery you are referring to nor do I know what theme you are referring to.

It's definitely played up to be a mystery, even though there is the subtle message between the two

SHENLONG: “Your wish is granted. Come, let us go, Goku.”
GOKU: “Huh? Is it that time already?”

him leaving and all this going on is mysterious to the audience and the characters in story. It's meant for you to be confused as to what's going on and think, that is why it's a mystery as it's not out right evident since everything is very subtle and happens so quick without a true explanation. To go along with this, Goku not being clear with his friends what's going on, and even shushes Vegeta so the others won't know. I know Goku has gone off to fight people or train without permission, but him leaving permanently without an explanation seems very odd to me.

This is why I feel the narrative is forced a bit, it's trying to hit certain emotions, it wants to be mysterious instead of having Goku just say "Sorry, guys, I gotta protect earth with Shen Long, I made this wish..." or something along those lines.

I have some other issues with the ending as well such as the idea of him absorbing Dragon Balls, when they can easily be destroyed or recreated. Him going off with Shen Long is weird too because he's merely a creation of the earth's guardian and the situation felt far more serious than even when Goku is dead in the Other World. We've seen Piccolo die before and cause the Dragon Balls to go away, so it's not like the Dragon Balls are a tier above Other World.

[ABED]

It's not meant to be confusing. We just don't know where he's going. We know he can't stay on Earth because of a deal he's made. Subtlety and mystery aren't the same thing. It's a mystery to his friends because he doesn't want them to cry knowing he won't be coming back. I like the subtlety instead of hitting the audience over the head with a brick with exposition. We get from dialog that he's going somewhere and won't be coming back because he made a deal with Shen Long to give him enough time to destroy the One Star Dragon.

they can easily be destroyed or recreated.

But then they won't be the same ones which was the issue. They kept using the same balls and overloaded them with minus energy. Even though they could make a new set, I think given what happened would dissuade them from doing so.

This is why I feel the narrative is forced a bit, it's trying to hit certain emotions, it wants to be mysterious instead of having Goku just say "Sorry, guys, I gotta protect earth with Shen Long, I made this wish..." or something along those lines.

I fail to see how that is forcing the narrative or how mystery hurts the ability to get the right emotional reaction from the audience. They just aren't being explicit about where Goku's going.

[Kokonoe]

It's not meant to be confusing. We just don't know where he's going. We know he can't stay on Earth because of a deal he's made. Subtlety and mystery aren't the same thing. It's a mystery to his friends because he doesn't want them to cry knowing he won't be coming back. I like the subtlety instead of hitting the audience over the head with a brick with exposition. We get from dialog that he's going somewhere and won't be coming back because he made a deal with Shen Long to give him enough time to destroy the One Star Dragon.

they can easily be destroyed or recreated.

But then they won't be the same ones which was the issue. They kept using the same balls and overloaded them with minus energy. Even though they could make a new set, I think given what happened would dissuade them from doing so.

This is why I feel the narrative is forced a bit, it's trying to hit certain emotions, it wants to be mysterious instead of having Goku just say "Sorry, guys, I gotta protect earth with Shen Long, I made this wish..." or something along those lines.

I fail to see how that is forcing the narrative or how mystery hurts the ability to get the right emotional reaction from the audience. They just aren't being explicit about where Goku's going.

And therein lies the issue, why would he need to make a deal of this magnitude and when did that become possible of all sudden for this one particular moment in the series? Why not before? How is Shenron all of a sudden above Other World? This is also the Dragon Balls from Earth, one solitary planet in a universe, so does Porunga have the same power to let someone vanish with him if someone makes a deal? What about King Kai, couldn't he communicate and tell people? How did he poof all the way into where Piccolo is in Hell? Piccolo went through a lot of trouble to even get him out of there in the first place.

Also "because he doesn't want them to cry knowing he won't be coming back." that doesn't even add up cause they'll be far sadder they won't get to say goodbye to him. I know Goku isn't necessarily the smartest person, but I don't see him making a decision like that.

It's forced because out of nowhere the show does a 180 and inserts a mystery as to what's going on and Goku just leaving forever. To me it feels very artificial, and was honestly probably rushed like that arc was in general.

[ABED]

And therein lies the issue, why would he need to make a deal of this magnitude and when did that become possible of all sudden for this one particular moment in the series? Why not before? How is Shenron all of a sudden above Other World? This is also the Dragon Balls from Earth, one solitary planet in a universe, so does Porunga have the same power to let someone vanish with him if someone makes a deal? What about King Kai, couldn't he communicate and tell people? How did he poof all the way into where Piccolo is in Hell? Piccolo went through a lot of trouble to even get him out of there in the first place.

The deal was different this time because the circumstances were different. The Dragon Balls had never been overloaded with Minus Energy before. And Shen Long is technically a god. Who cares about whether Porunga has the same power? It's beyond the point of the story. That would just be useless exposition.

It's forced because out of nowhere the show does a 180 and inserts a mystery as to what's going on and Goku just leaving forever. To me it feels very artificial, and was honestly probably rushed like that arc was in general.

I think what you want is a ton of exposition. It's not a mystery. We don't know where exactly Goku is going, but we don't have to know. All we know is he's going away and not coming back. That's all you need to know. As for being rushed, the arc doesn't feel rushed at all. If anything, it feels stretched. The fight against the One Star Dragon drags quite a bit.

And what 180 are you talking about?

[Captain Strawberry]

GT because it it's like Goku's on a new adventure off screen without the old cast pulling him back. It kinda goes back to giving that old theme Dragon ball which was adventure.

[90sDBZ]

I'm in 2 minds about it. GT's ending is great in that it's more emotional and final as an end to Goku's journey, and the 4th Ending song "Rusty Machine Gun" works with it perfectly. But on the other hand it's kind of depressing, a bit like the Batman Beyond ending to the old DC Animated Universe. There's something very real about the whole saying goodbye to everyone of it.

The Manga's ending is much more laid back and high spirited in that Goku's rushing off for a new adventure just like that kid from all those years ago. I'd even say the 2004 revision is an improvement on it.

They both work for different reasons but overall I think the Manga's ending stays truer to the happy spirit of the story, so I prefer it by a bit.

[ABED]

The Manga's ending is much more laid back and high spirited in that Goku's rushing off for a new adventure just like that kid from all those years ago. I'd even say the 2004 revision is an improvement on it.

Oddly enough, I'm more saddened by Z's ending because Goku is leaving with some dumb kid and it's implied he's leaving his family for a while. We're supposed to be happy but I'm not, especially since Goku could train with the kid and teleport back to his family in time for dinner. In GT, Goku might be leaving everyone permanently, he does so for noble reasons and the finality to it is very satisfying. The ending montage is quite beautiful and brings Goku's story to a satisfying conclusion.

While it's not an ending, I like the low key feeling of the episode where Goku is late to the party, but when he gets there, his friends and family gather 'round him to listen to his story. "Everything is better with Goku around". It is indeed and could've been a nice ending.

[TheZFighter]

The ending of GT was excellent. It was literally the only thing I liked about that entire series.

[Ki Breaker]

I never get what all the fuss about GT ending is about, when I first saw it I thought, after all this torture even the ending is garbage..

Manga ending was really good, it's not even an ending, always gave the feel of goku is still training somewhere and the story never ended, it's a very beautiful ending and one of the best endings I have seen

[Asura]

This thread seems a bit more divided but usually whenever I look for people's opinions on GT's ending, they absolutely LOVE it.

Personally, I think it's an absolutely garbage ending. It would be a good ending for some other show like other people said, but it's not fitting for the Dragon Ball series whatsoever. It's emotional, it's sad, and it doesn't even make any sense whatsoever. It pulls on your heart-strings, but not in a good way. It just feels like it came out of nowhere and doesn't fit the vibe of the Dragon Ball series. Hell, GT was darker than Z and DB for sure, but it wasn't so dark that the ending fits in with the general vibe of the show. That stuff with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. at the end was mindnumbingly stupid as well.

To me, Dragon Ball should end with Goku going on many more unwritten adventures. That's a happy ending. Knowing that yeah, we won't be able to see it or read it, but Goku and friends are still out there having adventures and fights. That's pretty much exactly how the original manga ended. My only complaint with it, and many others complaint, was that Uub was not a fleshed out character whatsoever and desperately needed some development before Goku flew off with him after he (and by extension us) just met him for three minutes.

[ABED]

This thread seems a bit more divided but usually whenever I look for people's opinions on GT's ending, they absolutely LOVE it.

Personally, I think it's an absolutely garbage ending. It would be a good ending for some other show like other people said, but it's not fitting for the Dragon Ball series whatsoever. It's emotional, it's sad, and it doesn't even make any sense whatsoever. It pulls on your heart-strings, but not in a good way. It just feels like it came out of nowhere and doesn't fit the vibe of the Dragon Ball series. Hell, GT was darker than Z and DB for sure, but it wasn't so dark that the ending fits in with the general vibe of the show. That stuff with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. at the end was mindnumbingly stupid as well.

To me, Dragon Ball should end with Goku going on many more unwritten adventures. That's a happy ending. Knowing that yeah, we won't be able to see it or read it, but Goku and friends are still out there having adventures and fights. That's pretty much exactly how the original manga ended. My only complaint with it, and many others complaint, was that Uub was not a fleshed out character whatsoever and desperately needed some development before Goku flew off with him after he (and by extension us) just met him for three minutes.

How is that a dark ending? Yeah, Goku gives his life, but it's hardly what I would call a dark ending. Bittersweet at most, but still satisfying. What was so "mindnumbingly stupid" about Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.?

No amount of fleshing out is going to salvage Uub.

[Asura]

This thread seems a bit more divided but usually whenever I look for people's opinions on GT's ending, they absolutely LOVE it.

Personally, I think it's an absolutely garbage ending. It would be a good ending for some other show like other people said, but it's not fitting for the Dragon Ball series whatsoever. It's emotional, it's sad, and it doesn't even make any sense whatsoever. It pulls on your heart-strings, but not in a good way. It just feels like it came out of nowhere and doesn't fit the vibe of the Dragon Ball series. Hell, GT was darker than Z and DB for sure, but it wasn't so dark that the ending fits in with the general vibe of the show. That stuff with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. at the end was mindnumbingly stupid as well.

To me, Dragon Ball should end with Goku going on many more unwritten adventures. That's a happy ending. Knowing that yeah, we won't be able to see it or read it, but Goku and friends are still out there having adventures and fights. That's pretty much exactly how the original manga ended. My only complaint with it, and many others complaint, was that Uub was not a fleshed out character whatsoever and desperately needed some development before Goku flew off with him after he (and by extension us) just met him for three minutes.

How is that a dark ending? Yeah, Goku gives his life, but it's hardly what I would call a dark ending. Bittersweet at most, but still satisfying. What was so "mindnumbingly stupid" about Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.?

No amount of fleshing out is going to salvage Uub.

How is it a dark ending? Well lets see. Goku dies, abandons his entire family forever, becomes one with Shenron basically meaning he ceases to exist or becomes a different entity altogether, and then 100 years later we see an elderly Pan who must think she's going crazy as she frantically searches for her grandfather she thought was long dead, and still doesn't find him.

It's dark, it's sad, and it has absolutely no place in a story like Dragon Ball. Not to mention it doesn't make any sense and is never explained how the hell Goku becomes immortal against Omega in the first place, or what precisely happened to him. It's not even one of those things where it's "left open to interpretation" because it makes it fairly clear that yes, he's dead. The circumstances revolving around his death and how he won against Omega though aren't explained, and don't make a lick of sense.

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. are just retarded as concepts. If they wanted to leave a lasting impression of the next generation, don't make literal carbon copies of Goku and Vegeta, even down to their stupid "Jr." names.

And what do you mean by no amount of fleshing out will salvage Uub? The problem with the character was that we knew nothing about him, and then Goku flies away with him after we just met him, and that's how the story ends. If Uub was fleshed out and we got to know him a bit more before him and Goku went off together, that would have very easily solved the problem with Z's ending, and the character of Uub himself.

[killafoe69]

I love the Dragon Ball GT ending because it was bittersweet. You get great moments like Goku and Krillin's last fight together, Goku resting on Shen-long's back and the very last scene with Goku walking with the flashbacks and all that. It even incorporated elements of the manga's ending as it showed that there would always be another Goku (or someone Goku-esque) who would go on adventures the same way the original did. The only thing I don't like is Bulma Junior or whatever you wanna call her being Vegeta Junior's mother. I'm just like "um what?" whenever I see that.

Sidenote though. A big part of how you feel about the GT ending might depend on how you feel about A Hero's Legacy. Personally, I love that special a lot in all honesty so I liked seeing Old Pan and Goku Junior again. I'm pretty much right in the middle when it comes to Vegeta Junior though. Maybe if he had his own special dedicated to him I would like him more.

[Basaku]

And what do you mean by no amount of fleshing out will salvage Uub? The problem with the character was that we knew nothing about him, and then Goku flies away with him after we just met him, and that's how the story ends. If Uub was fleshed out and we got to know him a bit more before him and Goku went off together, that would have very easily solved the problem with Z's ending, and the character of Uub himself.

"A bit more" ain't enough TBH. People argue all the time whether anyone should ever replace Goku so at the very least the candidate would need a big resume within the series to be considered worthy. Screen presence across multiple sagas, scoring at least 1 major win etc. Gohan, Vegeta and Future Trunks would qualify, Uub would have to match at least their level of screentime, importance and success to be accepted as the successor, ever.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The point of introducing Oob was to say to us "Even after Goku's gone, there will always be someone to protect the Earth". He doesn't need fixing as far as I'm concerned.