Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Do anyone like that Saiyans in Universe 6 are skinny and child-like? I mean they could give them more build like this:
Look to the female in the midle, she really looks like a woman not like a 12 years-old girl like Kale and Caulifla, which makes her more appealing!
Also I don't like that Saiyans in U6 don't have tail, they look like earthlings to me, I think Toriyama should not have them to lose such a important characteristic to the Saiyan race
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
They seem to be a pretty decent counterpart to the combat-ready counterparts of Universe 7 as far as I can tell.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
Toriyama's new style doesn't really work well with the old DB aesthetics. But I'm more annoyed by the lack of tails, the most (unique?) characteristic trait of the saiyans. I know AK hated to draw tails back in the day, but he's only doing the designs now, so why not keeping them?
The Monkey King wrote:The U6 Saiyans looks super lame, it's a combination of Toriyama's new skinny art-style which doesn't suit Dragon Ball and them having no tails.
You're right they look just like humans.
Yes! I don't like Toriyama artstyle nowadays it seems like he lost his touch, I would prefer more if he put more effort in his new designs like the ones he did in the past
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I never liked it either, because of the fact that people didn't know how old Cabbe was supposed to be when he showed up, and the fact that skinny characters like that tend to look weak. I agree with everyone on the issue that without tails or muscle mass they look like little children, and virtually identical to humans now. I know its apart of the artstyle and I don't hate the artstyle, I just don't like the lack of emphasis on what makes these characters "Saiyan". Gohan at 9 was at least 3x bigger than Cabbe, however old he's supposed to be. The Saiyans overall have been watered down a lot by Toriyama's revision of them in U6, which I think is lame. Nothing about them and their general personality really emphasizes they are a "warrior race" at all. In the filler it was also said that the original U7 Saiyans were bigger than the remaining ones today too. I find it pretty unappealing as well.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.
Did Toriyama really never liked to draw tails? They don't seem complicated to me
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Them having the same requirement for triggering SS is what pisses me off about them, really the only thing.
You cannot, under any circumstances, tell me that a race of people who are warriors have never been emotionally pushed to reach the anger point to activate SS. In a lifestyle that's full of constant fighting, pain, death, misery and loss of life, no one, in the ENTIRE mother fucking history of these people never saw one of their own die and get angry enough over to attain the Super Saiyan forms?!
Fuck. Eeeeuurrrrrfffff.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
One thing that is bothering me is that they do look like a lot like earthlings. Their clothes are so casual. I didn't like at all Renso and those random Saiyans with Caulifla. Too much human design wise. They need something to set them apart from earthlings.
The Monkey King wrote:The U6 Saiyans looks super lame, it's a combination of Toriyama's new skinny art-style which doesn't suit Dragon Ball and them having no tails.
You're right they look just like humans.
Let me guess, angular and big build like bodybuilders is what suits DB better?
If not, What "suits Dragon Ball" exactly?
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
I think it's hilarious that the strongest U6 saiyans (I'm assuming) are the complete opposite looking from the U7 ones. Super small and scrawny compared to our big buff boys. It must give Vegeta flash backs to how short he used to be.
The Monkey King wrote:The U6 Saiyans looks super lame, it's a combination of Toriyama's new skinny art-style which doesn't suit Dragon Ball and them having no tails.
You're right they look just like humans.
Let me guess, angular and big build like bodybuilders is what suits DB better?
If not, What "suits Dragon Ball" exactly?
A show revolving around martial arts and characters constantly pushing their bodies to their physical limits doesn't fit with an art style where the characters have skinny bodies which look as though they've never done a press up a day in their lives.
Cabba has less muscle on him than kid Gohan, these saiyans (which are essentially strong super humans) don't look stronger or imposing than any earthling with a PL of 5.
Radditz should be the build of your typical saiyan, anyone could look at him and think "Yeah he's clearly stronger than your average person"
[spoiler][/spoiler]
For what Dragon Ball is Toriyama's old art style fit way better, the characters looked like strong martial artists.
ekrolo2 wrote:Them having the same requirement for triggering SS is what pisses me off about them, really the only thing.
You cannot, under any circumstances, tell me that a race of people who are warriors have never been emotionally pushed to reach the anger point to activate SS. In a lifestyle that's full of constant fighting, pain, death, misery and loss of life, no one, in the ENTIRE mother fucking history of these people never saw one of their own die and get angry enough over to attain the Super Saiyan forms?!
Fuck. Eeeeuurrrrrfffff.
Wasn't there something about having to surpass the limits of a Saiyan warrior to become a Super Saiyan? The Saiyans as a whole were essentially a race of self entitled weaklings in the grand scheme of things, before Freeza came with his handy healing pods they just kept on killing themselves off in battle during their early years before they could actually get anywhere.
jeffbr92 wrote:Do anyone like that Saiyans in Universe 6 are skinny and child-like?
No, they're very lazy designs that throw out DB and Toriyama's iconic designs in favore of generic anime character designs that are probably easier to animate.
jeffbr92 wrote:Yes! I don't like Toriyama artstyle nowadays it seems like he lost his touch, I would prefer more if he put more effort in his new designs like the ones he did in the past
He's working with Toei and Bandai now so they probably all agree to make designs that are easy to animate and make merchandise off of.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
I don't really like Cabba but Caulifla looks amazing.
It seems like a conscious choice by Toriyama to have U6 Saiyans like this. Just look at Hit and Frost (especially Hit) they have muscles unlike Cabba. I just wish Toriyama would give us a more muscular male Saiyan from U6.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”
What I consider canonical
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball Manga
Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return
Additional lore from Toriyama
Dragon Ball Daima
I don't get the no muscle complaints, they aren't supposed to be our U7 Saiyans ya know. Our Saiyans were planet conquering brutes, these guys are freedom fighting fairies. It makes perfect sense why they look the way they do, different lifestyle, cultures etc.
They need something to set them apart from earthlings.
[/spoiler]
