"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[The gr]

I will take that chance to get into a small rant. Some people got this set mind that everything is made for toys, even bring Freeza back, when anyone who's into this kind of thing knows that villains/monsters/evil beings typically don't sell when it comes to kids. Heck, in kids' shows like Kamen Rider or Super Sentai they're completely ignored by the toy lines. That's why even in Dragon Ball, characters like Freeza, when they do get something it's mostly limited stuff aimed at older fans. He's coming back because Toriyama wanted, simple like that.

If Bandai had such a heavy hand over these things there would be no reason for Vegeta to not have adopted his ridiculous SSG form from the manga in the anime already.

Freeza has already been marketed adequately thanks for the Freeza arc so there was no need to bring him back to make him relevant I seriously doubt the higher ups wanted and forced Freeza back so they can now market him with a halo, so it is definitely a Toriyama in story addition. If this was a corporate thing then they would have bought Cell or something back. Same thing with Black SSR was a Toriyama thing and Toei didn't even give Black regular SS like Toyo too. If anything it is Manga that is more merchandise-y and fan service-y if you really think about it, but Toei get all the complaints

so hows the manga more fan service-y or merchandise-y than the anime because I seen 0 toys about SSG vegeta or Black ssj And I never seen anything as fan service-y in the manga as bringing Ginyu in the mix, now that is fan service done wrong or a hit filler arc

hell if anything the anime is the main source of toys and sale, without it,the manga would have been dead years ago

[Basaku]

Either Nozawa and/or Toei have a replacement already trained and waiting, or Shueisha will go full on Dragon Ball Heroes like they wanted to and they'll have Beat and Note staring in a replacement show.

Good luck with that Shueisha, because financially Heroes did little-to-nothing for either Toei or Bandai

That's not true. The franchise was taking a dive when Kai was airing, and after it was cancelled & Heroes became more popular, Heroes raised the numbers again, which is why we got a theatrical movie in 2013 (Battle of Gods). Then Kai was revived, FnF happened, and now we have Super. If it wasn't for Heroes, Super would probably not exist today.

Heroes helped keep the franchise afloat, but it's contribution has been massively extravagatted. Numbers never increased for Toei until BOG release and for Bandai they only increased slighty once, in FY2012 which was second year of Kai on air anyway so we can't even attribute it to Heroes only lol.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I will take that chance to get into a small rant. Some people got this set mind that everything is made for toys, even bring Freeza back, when anyone who's into this kind of thing knows that villains/monsters/evil beings typically don't sell when it comes to kids. Heck, in kids' shows like Kamen Rider or Super Sentai they're completely ignored by the toy lines. That's why even in Dragon Ball, characters like Freeza, when they do get something it's mostly limited stuff aimed at older fans. He's coming back because Toriyama wanted, simple like that.

If Bandai had such a heavy hand over these things there would be no reason for Vegeta to not have adopted his ridiculous SSG form from the manga in the anime already.

Freeza has already been marketed adequately thanks for the Freeza arc so there was no need to bring him back to make him relevant I seriously doubt the higher ups wanted and forced Freeza back so they can now market him with a halo, so it is definitely a Toriyama in story addition. If this was a corporate thing then they would have bought Cell or something back. Same thing with Black SSR was a Toriyama thing and Toei didn't even give Black regular SS like Toyo too. If anything it is Manga that is more merchandise-y and fan service-y if you really think about it, but Toei get all the complaints

so hows the manga more fan service-y or merchandise-y than the anime because I seen 0 toys about SSG vegeta or Black ssj And I never seen anything as fan service-y in the manga as bringing Ginyu in the mix, now that is fan service done wrong hell if anything the anime is the main source of toys and sale, without it,the manga would have been dead years ago

I obviously meant feels not literally since the Manga is just promotional, an example brining Vegeta SSG had no in story reasoning especially with the god awful he is going SSGSS the moment he attacks explanation which means there is no reason Vegeta had to go SSG except Toyo wanted him too, at least Toei aren't pulling crap like that...yet.

[The gr]

I obviously meant feels not literally since the Manga is just promotional, an example brining Vegeta SSG had no in story reasoning especially with the god awful he is going SSGSS the moment he attacks explanation which means there is no reason Vegeta had to go SSG except Toyo wanted him too, at least Toei aren't pulling crap like that...yet.

Your clearly not reading the chapter right,ssb drains stamina upon maintaining the form long,so he must use SSG to conserve stamina and trick his enemy using the weaker form and instantly attack with a strong form,is essentially KK in Namek,the anime uses ssb for no reason other than the plot demanded,did he really need use that in space​

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

[spoiler]

Wow, Dragon Ball is really close to One Piece in Japan now as far as Toei's cash flow is concerned.
The growth of Dragon Ball over the past few years is crazy.

[/spoiler]

DBS finally surpassed one piece in the overall, DB - 9.170.000.000 yen, OP - 7.713.000.000 yen

But the numbers are still the same, One Piece is bigger than Dragon Ball in Japan and Dragon Ball is bigger overseas

[Basako]

:roll:so hows the manga more fan service-y or merchandise-y than the anime because I seen 0 toys about SSG vegeta or Black ssj And I never seen anything as fan service-y in the manga as bringing Ginyu in the mix, now that is fan service done wrong or a hit filler arc
hell if anything the anime is the main source of toys and sale, without it,the manga would have been dead years ago

I don't think in DB plot decisions have ever been made just thinking about toys or videogames, there are other anime franchises that undeniably do that, as Pokemon and similars or Saint Seiya.

Toriyama wrote and drew a good manga that happened to be a big success and make money from merchandising too. It's true that the anime brought it much more success, for the nature of the medium itself and also because it was very well done, specially out of Japan and in too, but saying it would have been dead without it it's more than unfair considering the anime couldn't exist without the manga.

It's not the same in Super, as Toriyama provides the plots and then the products come later. The anime is the main product and the manga came as a side promotional product with it first, I think it grew because people liked it and it was marketable too. It's clear the anime would have done just as fine without the other. Now, if it had been the impossible case that Toriyama had written the plot having Toyotaro as ilustrator without the anime being done or done later, I have no doubt that it would have been a big success in its medium too, because is Toriyama and is Dragon Ball. It just works, Jump comics and the DBS Manga volumes are making money too, not as much as videogames, but they are different mediums, they can't be measured the same way.

[Basaku]

Stolen from GAF, upcoming toys:



[spoiler]New figures including Blue Goku, Blue Vegeta, Gohan, Golden Freeza (Angel), Kale and Jiren[/spoiler]

[emperior]

I read somewhere that it took Toriyama several months to finish the Future Trunks arc outline, where was this said?

[Psykomatik]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

[MisteryOne]

Freeza has already been marketed adequately thanks for the Freeza arc so there was no need to bring him back to make him relevant I seriously doubt the higher ups wanted and forced Freeza back so they can now market him with a halo, so it is definitely a Toriyama in story addition. If this was a corporate thing then they would have bought Cell or something back. Same thing with Black SSR was a Toriyama thing and Toei didn't even give Black regular SS like Toyo too. If anything it is Manga that is more merchandise-y and fan service-y if you really think about it, but Toei get all the complaints

so hows the manga more fan service-y or merchandise-y than the anime because I seen 0 toys about SSG vegeta or Black ssj And I never seen anything as fan service-y in the manga as bringing Ginyu in the mix, now that is fan service done wrong hell if anything the anime is the main source of toys and sale, without it,the manga would have been dead years ago

I obviously meant feels not literally since the Manga is just promotional, an example brining Vegeta SSG had no in story reasoning especially with the god awful he is going SSGSS the moment he attacks explanation which means there is no reason Vegeta had to go SSG except Toyo wanted him too, at least Toei aren't pulling crap like that...yet.

SSG was needed for Vegeta to defeat Black. I dunno if you had real the actual chapter but there is a pretty clear explanation as to why he does ot. In fact is not even an original thing, its the same Goku did during Namek saga with the Kaioken. Was that also pointless?

So, why was Ikari necessary? Considering Trunks was defeated in his very first battle using it and had to be saved by Yajirobe...Why? Why could Yajirobe not just saved standard SS2 Trunks? Its not like if the Zamas duo tried very hard in the anime, I mean, while Trunks was defeated and Goku and Vegeta were in the past, instead of searching and killing the rest of the Earthlings they were relaxed drinking tea.

How was Trunks doing the Mafuba necesary? It was destined to fail because of Toriyama's outline, yet they decided to give Trunks a bad writed asspull for something that Goku could have done perfectly.

What was the point of Black's scythe apart from him looking cool and making him stronger than Vegeta again? I mean, he could just become stronger than Vegeta without the need of creating a nonsensical-yet-cool giant scythe that he doesn't even know what it is and spams random clones. He could have defeated Vegeta with brute foem or using Kaioshin's abilities (oh wait...any of the Zamas of the anime does how to use that, they just spam ki swords)

What was the point of the Sword Gendikama if Zeno was going to be the one to kill Merged Zamsu anyway?

What was the point of Merged Zamasu deforming apart from making a new form of him? Specially if we consider how it contradicts Pothala's fusions lore.

What was the point of Goku going Blue Kaioken against Hit? SSG in the manga was also unecesary, since in both versions its said SSB wastes energy so Goku could have just won with tactics, but the Kaioken its even more uneccesary and strange. In a tournament with NOT real stakes at all (as Goku said himself, Earth would had only changed universes. How does that affect them?) Goku uses a form with a 90% chance of dying in a place outside U7 where they don't know if normal DBscan be used to revive him. Its extremely complicated considering Goku could just had won knowing about the Timeskip and being stronger than Vegeta because of the energy waste thing. Just like the SSGs, its fanservice that wasn't needed at all.

If anything, Toei is the one who does more of that «crap». And I think its pretty obvious, but fanservice doesn't necessary mean changing the story in favour of merchandising. Freezer coming back a second time and Frost himself can also be considered fanservice (specially the former). Toriyama being the one behind that ideas doesn't change anything.

[MisteryOne]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

[kinisking]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

That's what the community wants you to think. I think Toriyamas involvement is much more than people try to say it is.

[Basaku]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

That's what the community wants you to think. I think Toriyamas involvement is much more than people try to say it is.

The story gets changed depending how it 'suits' the community let's be honest. I think his involvement is deep, way deeper and sketching a few concepts for GT and that Toyatoro serves as an additional 'proxy' for his involvement. But I doubt he goes to Toei animation offices daily (or even weekly) and reads/approves every episode's scripts or makes corrections.

[Ki Breaker]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

That's what the community wants you to think. I think Toriyamas involvement is much more than people try to say it is.

That is an interesting point you brought up MisteryOne, it can be explained by toriyama having to plan the story slowly and steadily but even that won't take 1/2 a year, the obvious conclusion is his outlines are far more detailed than the widely accepted bare bones

[incarnati0n]

Could it be that Toriyama drafts the outline and than toei or toyotaro get some input of if some character has a bigger role or if toriyama could add them or something and so he adapts the draft for each medium? That would explain why Trunks seems to have a much bigger role in one version and Vegeta in the other and would also be a justification to why he needed so much time to draft the arc since he would have to accomodate for the diferences.

[perucho1990]

SSG was needed for Vegeta to defeat Black. I dunno if you had real the actual chapter but there is a pretty clear explanation as to why he does ot. In fact is not even an original thing, its the same Goku did during Namek saga with the Kaioken. Was that also pointless?

So, why was Ikari necessary? Considering Trunks was defeated in his very first battle using it and had to be saved by Yajirobe...Why? Why could Yajirobe not just saved standard SS2 Trunks? Its not like if the Zamas duo tried very hard in the anime, I mean, while Trunks was defeated and Goku and Vegeta were in the past, instead of searching and killing the rest of the Earthlings they were relaxed drinking tea.

How was Trunks doing the Mafuba necesary? It was destined to fail because of Toriyama's outline, yet they decided to give Trunks a bad writed asspull for something that Goku could have done perfectly.

What was the point of Black's scythe apart from him looking cool and making him stronger than Vegeta again? I mean, he could just become stronger than Vegeta without the need of creating a nonsensical-yet-cool giant scythe that he doesn't even know what it is and spams random clones. He could have defeated Vegeta with brute foem or using Kaioshin's abilities (oh wait...any of the Zamas of the anime does how to use that, they just spam ki swords)

What was the point of the Sword Gendikama if Zeno was going to be the one to kill Merged Zamsu anyway?

What was the point of Merged Zamasu deforming apart from making a new form of him? Specially if we consider how it contradicts Pothala's fusions lore.

What was the point of Goku going Blue Kaioken against Hit? SSG in the manga was also unecesary, since in both versions its said SSB wastes energy so Goku could have just won with tactics, but the Kaioken its even more uneccesary and strange. In a tournament with NOT real stakes at all (as Goku said himself, Earth would had only changed universes. How does that affect them?) Goku uses a form with a 90% chance of dying in a place outside U7 where they don't know if normal DBscan be used to revive him. Its extremely complicated considering Goku could just had won knowing about the Timeskip and being stronger than Vegeta because of the energy waste thing. Just like the SSGs, its fanservice that wasn't needed at all.

If anything, Toei is the one who does more of that «crap». And I think its pretty obvious, but fanservice doesn't necessary mean changing the story in favour of merchandising. Freezer coming back a second time and Frost himself can also be considered fanservice (specially the former). Toriyama being the one behind that ideas doesn't change anything.

SSJ Ikari Trunks probably forced Black and Mirai Zamasu to retreat, we later saw that Ikari Trunks put Black out of comission for a while, and Trunks lost due to Black sneak attack with his Ki sword.

I agree about the Mafuba, but I get that Toei wanted Trunks to be more relevant.

Vegeta was being overwhelmingly superior to Black, he was that strong that Black was starting to act like his manga counterpart(before he used rage power).

Trunks destroyed Merged Zamasus physical body, though, it might happen in the manga too if it was part of Toriyamas outline.

Kaioshin when he fused with the witch(a ningen) turned ugly too

Kaioken was because the anime buffed Hit, and in the original outline it said that Goku had to be 10x stronger in the fight vs Hit than Vegeta. Goku also said that he wanted to end the fight asap, and had to use a transformation that Hit improvement ability couldnt keep up.

[emperior]

Yeah, 5 or 6 months I believe, and it was stated in an interview back when Future Trunks arc was announced.

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

That's what the community wants you to think. I think Toriyamas involvement is much more than people try to say it is.

I too believe it. If it took him that much time to write the Future Trunks arc outline, it surely shouldn't be as barebone as we believe it to be.
I also think he gives info, sketches and help to the anime staff, I doubt they produce the show without asking him advices and whatsoever. It would be interesting to know Toriyama's full extent of his work on Super.

[Turambar]

It looks like that, if Super Saiyan White is every going to be a thing, it will be Gohan's new form. Though I think that it might look strange on him.

Anyways, I am officially a Gohan fan after Episode 90. His new characterization makes him extremely likable.

[TheMikado]

Why did it take so much time? Isn't the outline suposed to be barebones?

That's what the community wants you to think. I think Toriyamas involvement is much more than people try to say it is.

That is an interesting point you brought up MisteryOne, it can be explained by toriyama having to plan the story slowly and steadily but even that won't take 1/2 a year, the obvious conclusion is his outlines are far more detailed than the widely accepted bare bones

I dont understand why this is still a discussion topic the Producer of Super literally said his outline is barebones to the point where they have to flesh it out.

"Regarding the new grand developments of this upcoming arc, when I asked Mr Toriyama how the series will progress, Toriyama himself proposed this new story. Receiving the bare bones of the story from Toriyama, I fleshed out the story and created what you will be seeing on your screens soon.”

[MisteryOne]

SSG was needed for Vegeta to defeat Black. I dunno if you had real the actual chapter but there is a pretty clear explanation as to why he does ot. In fact is not even an original thing, its the same Goku did during Namek saga with the Kaioken. Was that also pointless?

So, why was Ikari necessary? Considering Trunks was defeated in his very first battle using it and had to be saved by Yajirobe...Why? Why could Yajirobe not just saved standard SS2 Trunks? Its not like if the Zamas duo tried very hard in the anime, I mean, while Trunks was defeated and Goku and Vegeta were in the past, instead of searching and killing the rest of the Earthlings they were relaxed drinking tea.

How was Trunks doing the Mafuba necesary? It was destined to fail because of Toriyama's outline, yet they decided to give Trunks a bad writed asspull for something that Goku could have done perfectly.

What was the point of Black's scythe apart from him looking cool and making him stronger than Vegeta again? I mean, he could just become stronger than Vegeta without the need of creating a nonsensical-yet-cool giant scythe that he doesn't even know what it is and spams random clones. He could have defeated Vegeta with brute foem or using Kaioshin's abilities (oh wait...any of the Zamas of the anime does how to use that, they just spam ki swords)

What was the point of the Sword Gendikama if Zeno was going to be the one to kill Merged Zamsu anyway?

What was the point of Merged Zamasu deforming apart from making a new form of him? Specially if we consider how it contradicts Pothala's fusions lore.

What was the point of Goku going Blue Kaioken against Hit? SSG in the manga was also unecesary, since in both versions its said SSB wastes energy so Goku could have just won with tactics, but the Kaioken its even more uneccesary and strange. In a tournament with NOT real stakes at all (as Goku said himself, Earth would had only changed universes. How does that affect them?) Goku uses a form with a 90% chance of dying in a place outside U7 where they don't know if normal DBscan be used to revive him. Its extremely complicated considering Goku could just had won knowing about the Timeskip and being stronger than Vegeta because of the energy waste thing. Just like the SSGs, its fanservice that wasn't needed at all.

If anything, Toei is the one who does more of that «crap». And I think its pretty obvious, but fanservice doesn't necessary mean changing the story in favour of merchandising. Freezer coming back a second time and Frost himself can also be considered fanservice (specially the former). Toriyama being the one behind that ideas doesn't change anything.

SSJ Ikari Trunks probably forced Black and Mirai Zamasu to retreat, we later saw that Ikari Trunks put Black out of comission for a while, and Trunks lost due to Black sneak attack with his Ki sword.

I agree about the Mafuba, but I get that Toei wanted Trunks to be more relevant.

Vegeta was being overwhelmingly superior to Black, he was that strong that Black was starting to act like his manga counterpart(before he used rage power).

Trunks destroyed Merged Zamasus physical body, though, it might happen in the manga too if it was part of Toriyamas outline.

Kaioshin when he fused with the witch(a ningen) turned ugly too

Kaioken was because the anime buffed Hit, and in the original outline it said that Goku had to be 10x stronger in the fight vs Hit than Vegeta. Goku also said that he wanted to end the fight asap, and had to use a transformation that Hit improvement ability couldnt keep up.

So he forced them to retire yet he had to be SAVED by Yajirobe? Don't you see that's a total contradiction?

Read my comment carefuly please. I'm complaining about Black getting a nonsensical scythe as a rage boost when he could just had gotten stronger.

Which was pointless since Zemo could have destroyed it too. Why was it necesary?

What...How on hell does that comparision make sense? Its not that he got ugly, is that he was melting and deforming despite that not being a quality of any of his fused parts. And he stopped being physically inmortal, that's the bullshit thing. Black not being inmortal can't affect Merged's inmortality. Pothala doesn't work like that. Anyway, you seem to fail to see the point. Why was it necesary to make Merged deform?

You're only proving my point...What was the reason to buff Hit? Why Goku could not just be x10 times stronger because Vegeta wasted 90% of his power fighting Hit and not being able to hit him because of the Timeskip that Goku can counter? And Hit's improvements could keep up with Kaioken. Rewatch the scene. That's in fact the most unnecesary thing, Hit's improvements.