Sigh Toyo still hasn't drawn Trunks properly whatever... but sweet jesus that page with SSGSS Goku My love hate relationship with the Manga continues!
Storywise seems Trunks has the power to restore health looks like he won't do jack afterall (not surpising based on how Toyo has used and portrayed him thus far). Portal thing is neat though.
Also Goku has "perfected" SSGSS? Guess Toyo is fixing the stamina issue he created.
Last edited by Baggie_Saiyan on Wed May 17, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alruneia wrote:
Well, there wasn't really anything wrong with the Spirit Bomb + sword combo in and of itself. The anime's problem was having Trunks magically pull the energy in on his own based on nothing but the power of friendship. If the manga has Goku, who actually knows how to do the Spirit Bomb, use the technique and then give it to Trunks, then there shouldn't be a problem.
There wasnt anything with both Goku and Vegeta giving their Ki to Trunks, we already saw other characters giving their Ki to someone else to boost him up(Gohan/Krillin on Piccolo, Goku to Frieza, etc).
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
Probably Kanzenshuu's biggest Bulla fangirl. Current avatar: DBU Bulla as Sailor Princess Sadala, based on Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance
Dragon Ball Ultimate - 76 out of 150 chapters complete JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link Sailor Moon: Mindful of Love - link | Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance - link
Alruneia wrote:
Well, there wasn't really anything wrong with the Spirit Bomb + sword combo in and of itself. The anime's problem was having Trunks magically pull the energy in on his own based on nothing but the power of friendship. If the manga has Goku, who actually knows how to do the Spirit Bomb, use the technique and then give it to Trunks, then there shouldn't be a problem.
There wasnt anything with both Goku and Vegeta giving their Ki to Trunks, we already saw other characters giving their Ki to someone else to boost him up(Gohan/Krillin on Piccolo, Goku to Frieza, etc).
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
Precisely, genki is one of the components of ki but to just use a genki only attack you need to train for it. It can't just be copied or done because reasons.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:Did Vegeta actually say his SSJ2 form is stronger than Future Trunks SSJ2 form? Because I'd assume he'd only make that assumption because he knows he became much stronger overall from training with Whis and in the ROSAT for three years.
SS2 Vegeta beated the shit out of SS Black, while SS2 Trunks couldn't do shit against base Black. Vegeta even says that Trunks shouldn't be able to beat SS Black at the level he is, and he is as strong as SS3 Goku. So, there is no doubt that Vegeta's SS2 form is stronger than Trunks', unless if base Trunks is over x50 weaker than Vegeta... which he's not.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
This twitter account has been suspended. Were they images?
It works for me.
There's a page where Trunks is talking to Kaioshin and the guy added photos of Gohan's ritual.
Oh, sorry, I can see it now too. I wonder why he added those images of the ritual. Ultimate Trunks? Well, I'd like it, although how could he do it without the elder and some time?
Welp it's not over yet....it appears to end on yet another cliff hanger. Tune in next month.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Alruneia wrote:
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
Well we could imply that Trunks mastered SSJ Ikari the moment Goku and Vegeta gave him their Ki and the genkidama-lite move is his special ability.
The whole reaching the maximum power of the transformation is part of Toriyama outline for the looks of it.
Basako wrote:
This twitter account has been suspended. Were they images?
It works for me.
There's a page where Trunks is talking to Kaioshin and the guy added photos of Gohan's ritual.
Oh, sorry, I can see it now too. I wonder why he added those images of the ritual. Ultimate Trunks? Well, I'd like it, although how could he do it without the elder and some time?
seems like they're all returning to the past to power up Trunks loolelel
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Sigh Toyo still hasn't drawn Trunks properly whatever... but sweet jesus that page with SSGSS Goku My love hate relationship with the Manga continues!
Storywise seems Trunks has the power to restore health looks like he won't do jack afterall (not surpising based on how Toyo has used and portrayed him thus far). Portal thing is neat though.
Also Goku has "perfected" SSGSS? Guess Toyo is fixing the stamina issue he created.
Yeah but if Goku SSJB beats merged Zamasu, i'm done
Alruneia wrote:
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
Well we could imply that Trunks mastered SSJ Ikari the moment Goku and Vegeta gave him their Ki and the genkidama-lite move is his special ability.
The whole reaching the maximum power of the transformation is part of Toriyama outline for the looks of it.
A technique we know nothing about and never will know anything about was mastered and gives you the ability to use a technique you can only achieve by having a pure heart IE one that isn't filled with rage which goes against the very name of SSRage.
Forgive me if I sound like an asshole but that explanation makes less sense than the material its meant to explain.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Alruneia wrote:
Well, there wasn't really anything wrong with the Spirit Bomb + sword combo in and of itself. The anime's problem was having Trunks magically pull the energy in on his own based on nothing but the power of friendship. If the manga has Goku, who actually knows how to do the Spirit Bomb, use the technique and then give it to Trunks, then there shouldn't be a problem.
There wasnt anything with both Goku and Vegeta giving their Ki to Trunks, we already saw other characters giving their Ki to someone else to boost him up(Gohan/Krillin on Piccolo, Goku to Frieza, etc).
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
My headcannon is that the only actual technique in the spirit bomb is taking energy from unwilling or otherwise unable participants, with the first two times he was taking energy from things like animals and plants. But in the Buu saga he needed much more energy, so he took it from the people, but he needed them to want to give it to him; no one ever tells the people of earth how to give out energy, they just give out energy because they want too. So, with the resistance, they're overwhelming desire to help Trunks and because they're connections to him (Fuck, he's basically the Mr Satan figure of their timeline) allows them give out their energy like the Earthlings did in the Buu saga.
Really, they should of just of had Bulma go "Hey, Buu was immortal, right? HEY, EVERYBODY! PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR!"
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
Alruneia wrote:
I'm referring to the resistance, aka random people with no kind of ki control, suddenly glowing and getting their energy pulled to Trunks. Giving your energy to someone is one thing, and getting your energy taken in by the Spirit Bomb is another. Trunks never learned the Spirit Bomb, so he shouldn't be able to do that.
Well we could imply that Trunks mastered SSJ Ikari the moment Goku and Vegeta gave him their Ki and the genkidama-lite move is his special ability.
The whole reaching the maximum power of the transformation is part of Toriyama outline for the looks of it.
A technique we know nothing about and never will know anything about was mastered and gives you the ability to use a technique you can only achieve by having a pure heart IE one that isn't filled with rage which goes against the very name of SSRage.
Forgive me if I sound like an asshole but that explanation makes less sense than the material its meant to explain.
Why people still talk about the spirit bomb as if it were a thing? This is the manga of DBS not some random shitty fanfic.
Lord Beerus wrote:Did Vegeta actually say his SSJ2 form is stronger than Future Trunks SSJ2 form? Because I'd assume he'd only make that assumption because he knows he became much stronger overall from training with Whis and in the ROSAT for three years.
SS2 Vegeta beated the shit out of SS Black, while SS2 Trunks couldn't do shit against base Black. Vegeta even says that Trunks shouldn't be able to beat SS Black at the level he is, and he is as strong as SS3 Goku. So, there is no doubt that Vegeta's SS2 form is stronger than Trunks', unless if base Trunks is over x50 weaker than Vegeta... which he's not.
I originally asked that question in regards as to whether Vegeta kept his rage boost. I don't think he did. I just think he became a lot more powerful from training with Whis and in the ROSAT. I mean, that's the only logical way that SSJ2 Vegeta would be more powerful than SSJ Goku Black who is also far stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But of course, that would mean Vegeta became at least 400 times more power from training with Whis and spending three years in the ROSAT.
Draconic wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Welp it's not over yet....it appears to end on yet another cliff hanger. Tune in next month.
Adding to that, Zamasu doesn't defuse either.
Damn. I really thought Toyotaro would wrap thing ups already but I guess he has more planned.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
ekrolo2 wrote:
A technique we know nothing about and never will know anything about was mastered and gives you the ability to use a technique you can only achieve by having a pure heart IE one that isn't filled with rage which goes against the very name of SSRage.
Forgive me if I sound like an asshole but that explanation makes less sense than the material its meant to explain.
Goku said it was similar to the genkidama, not that it was THE Genkidama.
As for the chapter goes, its starting to drag, I guess next chapter Goku will remember the button, summon Zeno and DELETE everything in the Mirai timeline. I hope also this doesnt mean the ToP wont start until Episode 100.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
SS2 Vegeta beated the shit out of SS Black, while SS2 Trunks couldn't do shit against base Black. Vegeta even says that Trunks shouldn't be able to beat SS Black at the level he is, and he is as strong as SS3 Goku. So, there is no doubt that Vegeta's SS2 form is stronger than Trunks', unless if base Trunks is over x50 weaker than Vegeta... which he's not.
Tbf, SS2 Vegeta didn't really 'beat the shit' out of Black in the manga. Do people think this? Vegeta did give him two good shots, but nothing threating until he went Blue.
Lord Beerus wrote:Did Vegeta actually say his SSJ2 form is stronger than Future Trunks SSJ2 form? Because I'd assume he'd only make that assumption because he knows he became much stronger overall from training with Whis and in the ROSAT for three years.
SS2 Vegeta beated the shit out of SS Black, while SS2 Trunks couldn't do shit against base Black. Vegeta even says that Trunks shouldn't be able to beat SS Black at the level he is, and he is as strong as SS3 Goku. So, there is no doubt that Vegeta's SS2 form is stronger than Trunks', unless if base Trunks is over x50 weaker than Vegeta... which he's not.
I originally asked that question in regards as to whether Vegeta kept his rage boost. I don't think he did. I just think he became a lot more powerful from training with Whis and in the ROSAT. I mean, that's the only logical way that SSJ2 Vegeta would be more powerful than SSJ Goku Black who is also far stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But of course, that would mean Vegeta became at least 400 times more power from training with Whis and spending three years in the ROSAT.
If that was the case, Vegeta would have been 2000 times stronger than Goku. Which he's not. How is that more logical than assuming that Vegeta made his SS2 even stronger?
KidGokuDB wrote:Tbf, SS2 Vegeta didn't really 'beat the shit' out of Black in the manga. Do people think this? Vegeta did give him two good shots, but nothing threating until he went Blue.
He still showed superior power over him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
My love hate relationship with the Manga continues!
