"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

So am I one of the few that didnt like the whole Zamasu ripping off Janemba's dimension technique? I would have prefered if Toyo comes out of his safe place and create a unique attack instead of just re using stuffs etc.

I don't really care for it, but I'm not really against it either. I'll always refer Zamasu's moves in the anime as thye truly felt God-like, but the dimension move is certainly better than throwing cubes at the enemy.

Plus, I really want Zamasu to start taking moves fromo all the Movie villains. He's already got Salza's blade, Janemba's dimesion punches, I think one point a while back he used Turles's 'Sudden Storm' move. Just have him go through Goku's kahmehameha and I get bingo!

[Kanassa]

I would enjoy that, though that would heavily effect the TOP... Unless Toyo just has Trunks be 'busy' during the tournament

As a Kaioshin disciple, I don't think Trunks would be permitted to fight in the ToP. I don't think this will happen, but it is a cool thought anyway.

I mean as in, make an appearance, he'd probably be there to spectate.

[SansrivaaL]

So am I one of the few that didnt like the whole Zamasu ripping off Janemba's dimension technique? I would have prefered if Toyo comes out of his safe place and create a unique attack instead of just re using stuffs etc.

I don't really care for it, but I'm not really against it either. I'll always refer Zamasu's moves in the anime as thye truly felt God-like, but the dimension move is certainly better than throwing cubes at the enemy.

Plus, I really want Zamasu to start taking moves fromo all the Movie villains. He's already got Salza's blade, Janemba's dimesion punches, I think one point a while back he used Turles's 'Sudden Storm' move. Just have him go through Goku's kahmehameha and I get bingo!

That cube throwing move was legit horrible... tho it fits his persona, a baby sized grown God pulling a tantrum because Vegeta and Goku bullied them separately so he's throwing cubes around.

Because of all this throwback moves I feel like one way or another they'll have Goku use Dragon fist.

[batistabus]

I would enjoy that, though that would heavily effect the TOP... Unless Toyo just has Trunks be 'busy' during the tournament

As a Kaioshin disciple, I don't think Trunks would be permitted to fight in the ToP. I don't think this will happen, but it is a cool thought anyway.

I mean as in, make an appearance, he'd probably be there to spectate.

Ah, I see. Now that I think about it, Toppo is kind of being treated like a Hakaishin disciple, so maybe Trunks would be permitted to enter in that scenario after all.

[Kanassa]

That cube throwing move was legit horrible... tho it fits his persona, a baby sized grown God pulling a tantrum because Vegeta and Goku bullied them separately so he's throwing cubes around.

They knocked over his sand castle in kindergarden!

Also, I thought Gowasu said Zamasu wasn't a god... but then he should be a God because he can use the time ri- I think we should just accept that Gowasu is incredibly incompetent and should not be listened too.

[Xeztin]

Video interview with Toyotaro! Be sure to turn on closed captions for English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti89i2EZjWE

So he admits his personality aka fan boy nature gets in the way yeah that was pretty obvious. Plus he admits he purposely deviates away and hope fans don't reject his stuff, again obvious but glad he admitted it.

Does anyone have a age to pin on Toyotaro? I've been wondering this for a very long time. He speaks as if he is still in his 20s, early 30's?

[Basako]

The batlles are nice, specially the portal technique, which is visually very cool, but there are other moments like the destruction ball that Zamasu blasts to Goku and he is able to throw it away or Vegeta saving Goku, admiting once again he is better, sorry Vegeta fans, and using a similar self destructive technique that he used against Boo, almost dying. Well, that's heroic too, good for him.

The healing technique for Trunks has been called an asspull. I understand, I'm sure it wasn't previously planned, it's more an improvised thing, which is how Toriyama wrote, there could be so many examples. The thing is, the way it's introduced, after the conversation of the Kaioshins and going back to the chapter where Trunks trained with future Shin and the times he cured unconsciously Gowasu and Mai, I think it was pretty well introduced. He can't use it with out limit and he is just able to restore Goku fully and save Vegeta's life who was in the border of death. So I'm totally fine with this.

The other important thing is the SSB mastery. Goku could do it, we don't know since when, I don't think he could in the Champa tournament and definetively not in the RoF arc. It's very cool conceptually, thinking about how the blue aura looks so solid in the manga, making that into his body and having that strength. Because he is fighting in pair with merged Zamasu now, the problem is he can't last it long and Merged Zamasu heals. I see a problem, why didn't he used it against Black before? Well, Vegeta was figthing him, I don't know. Circumstances were like they were, maybe he didn't make the best decisions.

I think merged Zamasu will defuse next chapter. But I won't say it will finish the arc, because I always say that and I'm always wrong. It's a very interesting point right now, I'm enjoying it a lot. Toyo is great!

[Kanassa]

It's funny that Trunks technically counts as a Kaioshin's attendant now, considering that in most non-cannon material he basically becomes the Time Kaioshin's attendant

[HeroR]

It sounds to me like Goku mastering SSJB is forshadowing SSJB Kaioken at some point. Toyotaro had to get rid of the aura icy things that float around Goku along with the aura itself if he's going to use SSJB Kaioken. A double aura in a manga would look rather... strange and those floating things would have been too much over the top looking with Kaioken. I think SSJB Kaioken is going to happen in the manga or something like it.

Also at least Toyotaro is trying to give us information about Super Saiyan Blue rather than being like Toei and saying "Hey this is a new form that's a billion times stronger than God, so yeah you know!" He gave it a few weakness and is now having the characters overcome it, he's at least trying to have character development. SSJB in the anime seems almost flawless

Also Goku at the end was really cool, almost like his Namek fight with Freeza! The fight choreography is better than Super's as well in my opinion! I thought giving Zamasu Janemba techniques was better than opening up a unexplained rift in time and space with a energy scythe.

Toei did give us information about the form. Goku described it as a calm transformation with perfect ki control, which is how Kaioken is possible with it. Not sure why you're acting like Toei gave us nothing.

So am I one of the few that didnt like the whole Zamasu ripping off Janemba's dimension technique? I would have prefered if Toyo comes out of his safe place and create a unique attack instead of just re using stuffs etc.

I don't really care for it, but I'm not really against it either. I'll always refer Zamasu's moves in the anime as thye truly felt God-like, but the dimension move is certainly better than throwing cubes at the enemy.

Plus, I really want Zamasu to start taking moves fromo all the Movie villains. He's already got Salza's blade, Janemba's dimesion punches, I think one point a while back he used Turles's 'Sudden Storm' move. Just have him go through Goku's kahmehameha and I get bingo!

Prefer this over shitting bricks. At least Toyo is giving some techniques that seems "god-like".

That cube throwing move was legit horrible... tho it fits his persona, a baby sized grown God pulling a tantrum because Vegeta and Goku bullied them separately so he's throwing cubes around.

They knocked over his sand castle in kindergarden!

Also, I thought Gowasu said Zamasu wasn't a god... but then he should be a God because he can use the time ri- I think we should just accept that Gowasu is incredibly incompetent and should not be listened too.

Zamasu is a god. He just isn't an official Supreme Kai, he's just a lowly Kai like King Kai.

[dbzfan7]

I like how SSJB is supposed to be mastered, as it basically validates what Whis said, instead of making it useless dribble that never meant a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. Though it's an interesting idea, I like my aura's flowing so to have something possibly get rid of them would be sad.

[Alruneia]

After reading the chapter (untranslated, just using some Herms tweets):
I see no real issue with Trunks now knowing how to heal, since it's explained fairly well, and he has flashbacks to several occasions (okay, two) earlier in the arc where the healing powers showed up.
I don't see an Ultimate Trunks happening, as fun as it'd be. The dance seems to just be a Kai initiation dance of some sort. Does that mean Gohan could awaken a healing power as well? Perhaps the witch's influence on the Old Kai replaced the healing power with the Ultimate power. I don't know.
I'm still having trouble understanding how Goku could fight Merged Zamasu by internalising his energy. I do see the parallels to the anime's Kaioken x10 against Hit, what with the arm going weird and all, but is there any dialogue that even hints at an internalised Blue being stronger than a normal Blue? The removal of the stamina drain I understand, and I find it interesting that Vegeta removed the repeated transformation issue while Goku removed the stamina drain issue, but it really seems like this Full Power Blue or whatever is coming out of nowhere.
The fighting, when judging purely from the action, was really fun. I enjoyed seeing Zamasu think with portals. Brutal as it was, seeing him lay the smackdown on Base Goku and especially Vegeta was also good.
I suppose I had a feeling the arc wouldn't end this month. It is starting to drag a little, the monthly schedule hurts the manga in my opinion, but oh well. With the anime's recruitment episodes dragging as well, it seems fitting.

[SansrivaaL]

I like how SSJB is supposed to be mastered, as it basically validates what Whis said, instead of making it useless dribble that never meant a damn thing in the grand scheme of things. Though it's an interesting idea, I like my aura's flowing so to have something possibly get rid of them would be sad.

Thats tearing me as well... this means we'll see fights without aura...he could have at least added an effect like have a mist like smoke around Goku's body like the OP in the anime or have the weird liquid like effects inside the aura stay, I'm glad the anime took a different approach, we get to enjoy aura flares.

[Xeztin]

It sounds to me like Goku mastering SSJB is forshadowing SSJB Kaioken at some point. Toyotaro had to get rid of the aura icy things that float around Goku along with the aura itself if he's going to use SSJB Kaioken. A double aura in a manga would look rather... strange and those floating things would have been too much over the top looking with Kaioken. I think SSJB Kaioken is going to happen in the manga or something like it.

Also at least Toyotaro is trying to give us information about Super Saiyan Blue rather than being like Toei and saying "Hey this is a new form that's a billion times stronger than God, so yeah you know!" He gave it a few weakness and is now having the characters overcome it, he's at least trying to have character development. SSJB in the anime seems almost flawless

Also Goku at the end was really cool, almost like his Namek fight with Freeza! The fight choreography is better than Super's as well in my opinion! I thought giving Zamasu Janemba techniques was better than opening up a unexplained rift in time and space with a energy scythe.

Toei did give us information about the form. Goku described it as a calm transformation with perfect ki control, which is how Kaioken is possible with it. Not sure why you're acting like Toei gave us nothing.

But that was it which leaves nothing to be built on, I should have worded as here is this super strong form with no drawbacks whatsoever. Every SSJ form in the past has had it's drawbacks or weaknesses. Usually too slow or uses too much energy to use for long. What I'm trying to say is, the form didn't have any development because it had no drawbacks. It just happens to be there and just happens to be stronger than God which leaves everyone to assume how it was attained or how it works since Vegeta attained it with no mention of the ritual or him having SSG. Toyotaro usually "goes back to try to fix or cover things" I suppose.

[Generico Garbagio]

I think it would've been nice if Zamasu was immortal, but not when he's fused. Then they would've had to hurry and kill Merged Zamasu before he defuses.

[HeroR]

But that was it which leaves nothing to be built on, I should have worded as here is this super strong form with no drawbacks whatsoever. Every SSJ form in the past has had it's drawbacks or weaknesses. Usually too slow or uses too much energy to use for long. What I'm trying to say is, the form didn't have any development because it had no drawbacks. It just happens to be there and just happens to be stronger than God which leaves everyone to assume how it was attained or how it works since Vegeta attained it with no mention of the ritual or him having SSG. Toyotaro usually "goes back to try to fix or cover things" I suppose.

That's because in the anime Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was always Mastered Super Saiyan with god ki, which is why Goku and Vegeta mocked Freeza's golden form. When training with Whis one of the primary points was learning to control their ki better and not waste energy. So why would Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan have a major energy issue when the training was all about controlling that?

Toyo is just fixing a plot mess that he created himself.

[TheSaiyanGod]

But that was it which leaves nothing to be built on, I should have worded as here is this super strong form with no drawbacks whatsoever. Every SSJ form in the past has had it's drawbacks or weaknesses. Usually too slow or uses too much energy to use for long. What I'm trying to say is, the form didn't have any development because it had no drawbacks. It just happens to be there and just happens to be stronger than God which leaves everyone to assume how it was attained or how it works since Vegeta attained it with no mention of the ritual or him having SSG. Toyotaro usually "goes back to try to fix or cover things" I suppose.

That's because in the anime Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was always Mastered Super Saiyan with god ki, which is why Goku and Vegeta mocked Freeza's golden form. When training with Whis one of the primary points was learning to control their ki better and not waste energy. So why would Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan have a major energy issue when the training was all about controlling that?

Toyo is just fixing a plot mess that he created himself.

This kind of training only happened in the anime. In the manga at least, it was not shown. For the Whis talk after the tournament in the manga, it assumes that Goku and Vegeta actually learned to control the Ki better, but the energy wasted is not related to Control of Ki.Goku also did not say that he had a perfect KI control in the anime, yard only hinted that this helped to use the Kaioken.In the manga were created initial weaknesses for the SSB transformation, but it is precisely to be overcome Including Vegeta trained hard to do that. Without telling that it opened up holes for Toyotaro himself to show a concept of concentrating the Ki of the Blue form (of the blue form, Goku and Vegeta in the anime did it in the base form) without letting overflow, of Shape that eliminates the wear and tear of energy of the form, which is interesting

[HeroR]

This kind of training only happened in the anime. In the manga at least, it was not shown. For the Whis talk after the tournament in the manga, it assumes that Goku and Vegeta actually learned to control the Ki better, but the energy wasted is not related to Control of Ki.Goku also did not say that he had a perfect KI control in the anime, yard only hinted that this helped to use the Kaioken.In the manga were created initial weaknesses for the SSB transformation, but it is precisely to be overcome Including Vegeta trained hard to do that. Without telling that it opened up holes for Toyotaro himself to show a concept of concentrating the Ki of the Blue form (of the blue form, Goku and Vegeta in the anime did it in the base form) without letting overflow, of Shape that eliminates the wear and tear of energy of the form, which is interesting

I was talking about the anime when the poster said that anime made the mistake of making Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan a perfect Super Saiyan form, while the manga made into an energy sucker like Super Saiyan 3.

[LowRyder2005]

The manga's the most overrated thing ever. God, they're managing to make this arc ending even worst than it was in the anime.
And of course no one's going to complain about SsjB Goku surpassing Merged Zamasu out of nowhere, nor the Trunks bullshit.
Ahhh had it happened in the anime...

If it happened in the anime you would have seen 3-5 threads bashing the anime.

If it happened in the anime you would've have had SSB Goku fighting SSR Black, get beaten to a pulp, then suddenly remembering he has this power at his disposal too. Or he would probably be getting this very power, with exponential and dramatic shifts in strength, after "raging" over something during his duel with Merged Zamas. Goku overcoming Merged Zamas briefly in a fit of rage ensues; all the forum posters would then suddenly go ballistic in "RaGeku: how can he be above Vegito" threads (with the debate ultimately becoming one of yet many unresolved plot points).

Compared to that, it's not surprising that Toyotaro's storytelling feels way less cheap to most. Goku and Black did not fight at all and the arc's detours had to do with overcoming Zamas' immortality, the Senzu beans being destroyed, Goku himself dropping out of Blue at unfortunate times. The narrative progression with what was established before is, comparatively, pretty linear here.

[OLKv3]

Jesus healing Trunks is SUCH a lame DEM, even with the foreshadowing, I still think it's just as bad as Genki Dama Sword Trunks. "I was a student, so I MUST have the healing power! Oh wait, I do! Let me suddenly use it perfectly now!"

I do like the Mastered SSB though

This kind of hypocrisy is lame. Fanboys are gonna fanboy tho

What am I being hypocritical about?

[Hugo Boss]

Anyways, it was a nice callback to Goku from Namek. That is my favorite Super Saiyan design. And I kind of expected Goku to have better handling of Blue's power than the others. It was a question of time to see this in official media.

Also, Zamas should be very mad at Goku. Despite all his plans and efforts, Goku is a lot more talented.