"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

I hope Volume 3 will have a bonus page of Shin doing the ritual, it'd be hilarious

[ekrolo2]

I definitely think this completed SSBlue is what the anime is gonna do with the new KK Blue combo later on. Especially since Blue is basically the KK Blue to Gods regular Blue as far as the manga is concerned.

As for the overall chapter, this is Toyotaro's equivalent to 66 for me. Lots of good visuals and fighting choreography but the story is total horse shit.

[The gr]

The manga's the most overrated thing ever. God, they're managing to make this arc ending even worst than it was in the anime.
And of course no one's going to complain about SsjB Goku surpassing Merged Zamasu out of nowhere, nor the Trunks bullshit.
Ahhh had it happened in the anime...

Comment like these are annoying as hell,the manga is not overated any more and no one gave Goku beating zamas a free pass, this is a bait that is not worth looking at

This chapter look cool and all, but I can't help to feel this chapter feel kinda padding, but I take it since is entertaining, we should expect viz release this chapter tomorrow in English, since they always release chapter in Friday

[Rhuagh]

I'll wait for the Viz release to give my thoughts on the story, but for now I gotta say this is the best fight choreography in the manga yet, IMO. Hats off for Toyotaro.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Which day launches the manga translated By the Viz?

Just one question

[The gr]

Which day launches the manga translated By the Viz?

Just one question

You mean the website,it updates new chapter every Friday,or unless you meant vol 1

speaking of volume, here's a close look to vol 3

[TheSaiyanGod]

Which day launches the manga translated By the Viz?

Just one question

You mean the website,it updates new chapter every Friday,or unless you meant vol 1

speaking of volume, here's a close look to vol 3

Thank you.

But only those in the US can read,Or something like this? If so, then it's no good for me.
But anyone who can read, can pass some information of what happens in the chapter

[kinisking]

Who wins ? Goku or Goku fused with a god ?

I like the idea of mastering SSB, but I fucking hate that it's that big of a power up. That's just inflation for no reason . I wish both Goku and Vegeta mastered it and had a tag team against Merged Zamasu.

[dbzfan7]

Wasn't it by the time the Blue's fought Zamasu, it was when they could barely use it? Hence they used SSJ God to conserve power?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, that's the scenario the manga is presenting.

No, that's the crazy scenario you are going by. Base, SS, and SSB Vegeta is not 2000 times stronger than Base, SS, and SSB Goku.

I think it's best to assume that characters as just as strong as the plot needs them to be.

That's not how a story works.

It's basically the same case with Gohan and Oob.

But this isn't Gohan & Oob, two young boys who have yet to train to their limits. This is Vegeta, who has trained beyond his limits. This isn't the same case at all.

Whis literally states in Chapter 13 that Super Saiyans Blue is form that can't be transformed in and out of in succession because the stamina that it wastes in that regards is too much. Hence why Vegeta only had 1/10 of his strength remaining when faced Hit as a SSJB in the Champa arc.

And both Goku & Vegeta literally say in Chapters 22 & Chapter 24 respectively that staying transformed into SSB drains your stamina. I'm not saying that Blue doesn't have the flaw you are talking about, I'm saying, or rather the manga is saying, that SSB has 2 flaws: it drains your stamina if you stay transformed, and it drains even more stamina if you transform multiple times.

[Noah]

I don't like how Trunks suddenly remembers that he got healing powers, I mean Gohan could have learned too by the time he spent in the Kaioshin Realm, right? Also it doesn't make sense as someone pointed earlier that Goku is capable of mastering SSJB while Vegeta not and they trained together, but the main question is:

Do anyone knows where Goku keeps the button? And how this button was not destroyed with all the battle damage he received yet?

So he admits his personality aka fan boy nature gets in the way yeah that was pretty obvious. Plus he admits he purposely deviates away and hope fans don't reject his stuff, again obvious but glad he admitted it.

He probably knows english, I wonder what would be his reaction if he came to see this thread once in a while

It shares the same problems with the anime with it's power scaling, contradictory strength and sudden new abilities with little to no foreshadowing. But it's really all down to what's in the plot outline from Toriyama and how Toyotaro could have spinned this into something entertaining, coherent and consistent. And this chapter unfortunately only achieved the "entertainment" part.

This is kinda out of character for you, Lord Beerus

Isn't you the one who always says to don't give a damn about power scalling when a good story is provided? That things don't need to make sense all the time and that you don't have problems with characters being stronger as the plot demands? Never though you cared about power scalling after all.

[OLKv3]

Trunks seemingly spent a much longer time in the Kaioshin realm compared to Gohan, who only spent a couple of hours. Also, Gohan got the witch boost, Trunks didn't

[TheSaiyanGod]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This SSB aura in the manga is cool.
These particles of energy hovering over it make it look prettier, as well as in the anime. I hope that even with this Ki control, we may eventually see this aura for a few moments

[HeroR]

Trunks seemingly spent a much longer time in the Kaioshin realm compared to Gohan, who only spent a couple of hours. Also, Gohan got the witch boost, Trunks didn't

Gohan trained with the Z-Sword for almost a day and then spent 24 hours on the ritual. It wasn't a couple of hours.

[TAF108]

I'm not saying that Vegeta wasn't holding back, he definitely did. But why go SSB when you are going to use 0.000001% of your power?

As I mentioned before, I'd say Vegeta used the form for a temporary speed edge on Goku. That's looking in universe. Out of universe, it's just something Toyotaro has done before. And he likes the concept. (He's done the whole switching out of forms thing before to with Xicor V. Vegeta.)

Keep in mind that the manga assumes we have seen the movies Battle of Gods & Resurrection "F", or the BoG arc wouldn't have been so rushed & the FnF arc wouldn't have been skipped and retold through narrator boxes. In the movies, Goku & Vegeta use the power of SSG in their base forms. Then in the Universe 6 & Future Trunks arcs of the manga, Goku & Vegeta don't use the power of SSG in their base forms, since they've learned how to use the SSG form itself, which is slightly stronger. That's why Goku & Vegeta don't use the SSG power in their base forms anymore, unlike Black who can't go SSG.

So, there's no evidence for it? The manga does the BoG Arc (though rushed at you put it. Personally, glad it was paced as it was. It's a movie, there's not 22 episodes worth of things in it. Certainly not more than a few chapters, either.), and in the manga, Goku never shows any signs of retaining the power of SSJG in his base form. Or even his SSJ form for that matter. The moment he loses SSJG in the manga, the fight stops. Beerus just leaves. At best you could say they assume you watched RoF, but I'm not just going to say the arcs are the same across all three mediums, when they're not. SSJG Goku and Beerus of the films probably don't have universal power, for example.

{Illegal scanlations removed by moderator}

But going by your interpretation of these events, SSB Vegeta is thousands of times stronger than not just SSB Goku, but Beerus & Whis as well, even though he was stated to have trained his body to its limits before his last training inside the RoSaT, meaning that it should be impossible for him to get such an increase through training, especially when he went alone for just 1 year, yet he didn't get such an increase when he went inside with Goku for 3 years...

How is he stronger than Beerus or Whis? Beerus is stated in the manga to be as strong as Vegetto Blue. So, Beerus is still much stronger than SSJB Vegeta. Gains from training are not static. The same thing happens in the anime. Vegeta goes in, weaker than Black and comes out, stomping Black. Goku, trains in the other world with King Kai for 7 years. Though when he returns, he doesn't surpass Kid Gohan until he goes SSJ2. 7 years of hard training, where Goku didn't even get 2x or, barely did, depending on how you scale the Cell Saga. Yet he got 19x stronger training for one year with King Kai.

The implication is that like back when Ginyu stole Goku's body, after Zamasu/Black stole Goku's body he was unable to bring out the full power of its base form & use its abilities (such as SS & SSGSS). By getting more & more near-death power-ups, Black was slowly making Goku's body his, allowing him to bring out more & more of its original base power, and he could slowly use more & more of its abilities (he could first use SS, and then eventually SSGSS/SSR).

I provided scans to explain how I got the implication I did. Could you do the same? It seems to me Black was talking purely about the power to ascend, not the power within Goku's body.

[TAF108]

Trunks seemingly spent a much longer time in the Kaioshin realm compared to Gohan, who only spent a couple of hours. Also, Gohan got the witch boost, Trunks didn't

They never broke the Z Sword, so that's why Trunks' doesn't get his potential unlocked. Apparently, training with the Z Sword is the last thing Trunks and Shin do, because that's what they're about to do before Dabura shows up, and then destroys the sword.

{Illegal scanlation removed by moderator}

[TheSaiyanGod]

Wait, Goku got thinner by controlling the Ki of the SSB inside your body or is it my impression? In the following pictures he looks slimmer than the ordinary.

{Illegal scanlation removed by moderator}

I always thought that Goku and Vegeta SSB had a slightly leaner body structure with SSB (being more noticeable in SSG), but looking at that picture, Goku only appears to be so skinny as to retain control of Ki in the SSB transformation

[Black Hawk]

So, there's no evidence for it? The manga does the BoG Arc (though rushed at you put it. Personally, glad it was paced as it was. It's a movie, there's not 22 episodes worth of things in it. Certainly not more than a few chapters, either.), and in the manga, Goku never shows any signs of retaining the power of SSJG in his base form. Or even his SSJ form for that matter. The moment he loses SSJG in the manga, the fight stops. Beerus just leaves. At best you could say they assume you watched RoF, but I'm not just going to say the arcs are the same across all three mediums, when they're not. SSJG Goku and Beerus of the films probably don't have universal power, for example.

I do understand and respect your point, and, by its logic, it would be a fallacy to assume that the 'F' arc in the manga adaptation would have been the same as either the movie adaptation or the anime adaptation; at the same time, however, it would then also be a fallacy to assume that, in the hypothetical manga adaptation of the 'F' arc, Gokū did not absorb Super Saiyajin Red's power unto himself, since we do not see how the 'F' arc plays out in the manga continuity (unless one includes the manga adaptation of the movie adaptation, but that's another discussion in and of itself). You state that there is no evidence of Gokū absorbing Red's power, but, likewise, there is also no evidence that he did not.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So, there's no evidence for it? The manga does the BoG Arc (though rushed at you put it. Personally, glad it was paced as it was. It's a movie, there's not 22 episodes worth of things in it. Certainly not more than a few chapters, either.), and in the manga, Goku never shows any signs of retaining the power of SSJG in his base form. Or even his SSJ form for that matter. The moment he loses SSJG in the manga, the fight stops. Beerus just leaves. At best you could say they assume you watched RoF, but I'm not just going to say the arcs are the same across all three mediums, when they're not. SSJG Goku and Beerus of the films probably don't have universal power, for example.

I do understand and respect your point, and, by its logic, it would be a fallacy to assume that the 'F' arc in the manga adaptation would have been the same as either the movie adaptation or the anime adaptation; at the same time, however, it would then also be a fallacy to assume that, in the hypothetical manga adaptation of the 'F' arc, Gokū did not absorb Super Saiyajin Red's power unto himself, since we do not see how the 'F' arc plays out in the manga continuity (unless one includes the manga adaptation of the movie adaptation, but that's another discussion in and of itself). You state that there is no evidence of Gokū absorbing Red's power, but, likewise, there is also no evidence that he did not.

That's not how it works, burden of proof only flows in one direction. If it isn't shown, and especially if it's explicitly contradicted, the only logical assumption is that it didn't happen. If we don't hold true to that, anything can be possible, no matter how ridiculous. Occam's razor, burden of proof, etc. These are fundamental, universal logical principles.

[TAF108]

I do understand and respect your point, and, by its logic, it would be a fallacy to assume that the 'F' arc in the manga adaptation would have been the same as either the movie adaptation or the anime adaptation; at the same time, however, it would then also be a fallacy to assume that, in the hypothetical manga adaptation of the 'F' arc, Gokū did not absorb Super Saiyajin Red's power unto himself, since we do not see how the 'F' arc plays out in the manga continuity (unless one includes the manga adaptation of the movie adaptation, but that's another discussion in and of itself). You state that there is no evidence of Gokū absorbing Red's power, but, likewise, there is also no evidence that he did not.

I don't like to use the word fallacy when discussing something so informally. You do seem to grasp my point, in that just because they cover the same events, it doesn't mean the events transpired exactly the same. And we know the contrary is true for all three mediums, which all portray the BoG differently, despite have the same over arching theme and story. My point is that we see in BoG, that Goku does not absorb SSJG's power and continue fighting. Now, you could argue that Goku does still somehow retain it's strength, but we're never left with that impression. And then, they skip RoF, as you've mentioned. And then, in the Universe 6 arc, Goku parades SSJG around again, as a new form he can use at his leisure.

When Goku & Trunks go at it in the manga, Goku compares Trunks to Gohan. In a similar manner that Vegeta did to Goku during the Boo arc. This seems to fit the idea that their power is still somewhat relative to that of the Boo Saga, aside from their God forms.

So my point focuses more on what we're shown in BoG, rather than what we're not shown in RoF. I'll admit there's no clear cut line saying "Goku did not retain the power of SSJG, and does not have access to that level of power unless he transforms into SSJG", but I definitely feel it's implied. I'm open to having my mind changed.