"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Basako]

I noticed Goku and Vegeta lose their potara once the fusion wears off in Toyotaro's manga. This contradicts the original manga where Goku and Vegeta still wore potaras when they defused, as it happens in Super anime. It seems like to fuse again you either have to take the potara off and put it on again (maybe put it on the other ear), or maybe wait sometime before you can fuse again.

This is quite a error from Toyotaro.

Ok, this is something, a critique with some basis. Looks like Toyotaro missed this one. It's a mistake, they should have the earrings somewhere.

Edit: Wait, I checked, they do have the earrings when they defuse in chapter 23. He did fine, man.

[emperior]

I noticed Goku and Vegeta lose their potara once the fusion wears off in Toyotaro's manga. This contradicts the original manga where Goku and Vegeta still wore potaras when they defused, as it happens in Super anime. It seems like to fuse again you either have to take the potara off and put it on again (maybe put it on the other ear), or maybe wait sometime before you can fuse again.

This is quite a error from Toyotaro.

Ok, this is something, a critique with some basis. Looks like Toyotaro missed this one. It's a mistake, they should have the earrings somewhere.

Edit: Wait, I checked, they do have the earrings when they defuse in chapter 23. He did fine, man.

Though they no longer have them starting from chapter 24. I don't know if Toyotaro can possibly fix this mistake without at least adding a panel.

EDIT: Wait, the earrings probably broke when Zamasu attacked them at the end of chapter 23. At least we must assume so. My bad!

[Abra kadabra]

Vegeta's Ssj2 being stronger than SSJ3 permanently is a headcannon. If the rage boost was permanent did anyone explain why it was or what it was without headcannon? No. Trunks notes that Vegeta shouldn't be working black like that and nothing comes of it, Toyotaro just writes past it. That's bad powerscaling that retroactively give BOG bad powerscaling

Did anyone explain it was temporary? Nope. The thing is, Vegeta shows in the fight against Black that he had that power again, giving us more reasons to believe it was permanent rather than temporary.

The manga power scaling is consistent between the Beerus arc and this arc. Only headcanon can refute it and that's not a valid prove.

Lmao okay. Why is it not temporary and what exactly is it? If you can answer this without an egregious headcannon you win.

[Basako]

I noticed Goku and Vegeta lose their potara once the fusion wears off in Toyotaro's manga. This contradicts the original manga where Goku and Vegeta still wore potaras when they defused, as it happens in Super anime. It seems like to fuse again you either have to take the potara off and put it on again (maybe put it on the other ear), or maybe wait sometime before you can fuse again.

This is quite a error from Toyotaro.

Ok, this is something, a critique with some basis. Looks like Toyotaro missed this one. It's a mistake, they should have the earrings somewhere.

Edit: Wait, I checked, they do have the earrings when they defuse in chapter 23. He did fine, man.

Though they no longer have them starting from chapter 24. I don't know if Toyotaro can possibly fix this mistake without at least adding a panel.

EDIT: Wait, the earrings probably broke when Zamasu attacked them at the end of chapter 23. At least we must assume so. My bad!

Yeah, it's a bit strange they don't have them in the start of 24. Probably Toyotaro forgot, to be honest. But maybe they broke or just fall to the ground.

Lmao okay. Why is it not temporary and what exactly is it? If you can answer this without an egregious headcannon you win.

I'm not confirming it was permanent, it wasn't stated either. But I'm not the one trying to make a continuity problem with something that wasn't stated like the temporary condition. Those are the ones that should put some evidence on the table. You say it was temporary and that it causes problems, prove it.

Even if I consider the temporary state as a theory, why not, it wouldn't be a big problem, as we know Vegeta trained hard with Wish to obtain the god states, so some improvement would make total sense. But, again, this is just a theoretical scenario.

If anything, the fight against Black gave us more reasons to believe the boost was permanent rather than temporary.

[HeroR]

It's funny that he does this, then uses head canon to defend something the anime does. It's like, be consistent with both mediums, don't pick and choose.

So you must have the chapter where it was said that Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 was special and he kept the rage boost from Battle of Gods. Also, if you bother to read the conversation instead of posting without context, I have no problem with headcanon. My problem is when people try to claim something that the manga never said with headcanon and they try to say the manga state it. But hey, don't let me correct you.

Yes you are headcanoning, twice.

One when you say all what there isn't in the manga has to be filled with the movie. That's your choice, then your headcanon, no statement in or out universe confirm this in any way and there are plenty in universe differences that make this belief problematic. I don't even fill the gap of RoF with its manga and it's the same author. As far as I know, what it's confirmed about it is what the narrator and characters confirmed.

The second, not a single line in the three separate continuities, movie, anime and manga, state that Vegeta's boost was temporary. So it's at most a theory and considering it confirmed is headcanon. Much more after we get another confirmation against Black that he has a stronger SS2 than others.

It's not headcanon Vegeta being stronger than Goku SS3 and, consequently, than Trunks SS2, because it had happened before. Now we get a second time, confirmed by facts.

It's funny that he does this, then uses head canon to defend something the anime does. It's like, be consistent with both mediums, don't pick and choose.

It really is, most of his accusations reflect on him so obviously. Or his complains about the manga in the anime.

No, I said in the manga it was never implied that Vegeta kept the rage boost. If it was, please tell me where. Not to mention Toyo actually said watched the movies to fill in the rest. So Toyo encourages people to watched the movies in his own manga.

It was more or less implied it was temporary since Vegeta never used his super powered Super Saiyan 2 ever. And if the manga wants us to believed that that Vegeta kept the power of rage Super Saiyan 2 it should have said so instead of people like you filling in the holes.

Yes it is since the manga never said in the manga that Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 is stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 3. Nothing from Black, Trunks, nor Goku. At this point, show me the panel or something where it is says that Vegeta has special Super Saiyan 2 like Trunks. Otherwise, stop staying your headcanon if fact.

[Basako]

It's funny that he does this, then uses head canon to defend something the anime does. It's like, be consistent with both mediums, don't pick and choose.

So you must have the chapter where it was said that Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 was special and he kept the rage boost from Battle of Gods. Also, if you bother to read the conversation instead of posting without context, I have no problem with headcanon. My problem is when people try to claim something that the manga never said with headcanon and they try to say the manga state it. But hey, don't let me correct you.

Yes you are headcanoning, twice.

One when you say all what there isn't in the manga has to be filled with the movie. That's your choice, then your headcanon, no statement in or out universe confirm this in any way and there are plenty in universe differences that make this belief problematic. I don't even fill the gap of RoF with its manga and it's the same author. As far as I know, what it's confirmed about it is what the narrator and characters confirmed.

The second, not a single line in the three separate continuities, movie, anime and manga, state that Vegeta's boost was temporary. So it's at most a theory and considering it confirmed is headcanon. Much more after we get another confirmation against Black that he has a stronger SS2 than others.

It's not headcanon Vegeta being stronger than Goku SS3 and, consequently, than Trunks SS2, because it had happened before. Now we get a second time, confirmed by facts.

It's funny that he does this, then uses head canon to defend something the anime does. It's like, be consistent with both mediums, don't pick and choose.

It really is, most of his accusations reflect on him so obviously. Or his complains about the manga in the anime.

No, I said in the manga it was never implied that Vegeta kept the rage boost. If it was, please tell me where. Not to mention Toyo actually said watched the movies to fill in the rest. So Toyo encourages people to watched the movies in his own manga.

It was more or less implied it was temporary since Vegeta never used his super powered Super Saiyan 2 ever. And if the manga wants us to believed that that Vegeta kept the power of rage Super Saiyan 2 it should have said so instead of people like you filling in the holes.

Yes it is since the manga never said in the manga that Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 is stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 3. Nothing from Black, Trunks, nor Goku. At this point, show me the panel or something where it is says that Vegeta has special Super Saiyan 2 like Trunks. Otherwise, stop staying your headcanon if fact.

You show the chapter showing that it was temporary, you are the one making a problem from this. If you don't, we don't have to assume it was, if it causes problems as you imply it does.

Vegeta's SS2 isn't special, it's just very strong.

You stop using your headcanon as fact.

[HeroR]

You show the chapter showing that it was temporary, you are the one making a problem from this. If you don't, we don't have to assume it was, if it causes problems as you imply it does.

Vegeta's SS2 isn't special, it's just very strong.

You stop using your headcanon as fact.

In other words, you have nothing other than the assumption that Vegeta's rage boost wasn't temporary and he kept the power of an enraged Super Saiyan despite the manga never telling anyone this, unlike with Trunks where everyone marveled at his powerful Super Saiyan 2 form. We couldn't even get a line from Goku explaining how Vegeta kept the power of his rage boost.

In other words, you don't have a leg to stand on other than assumptions. And it isn't for me prove, you know why, because Toyo wrote it. He should tell the audience that Vegeta's kept the rage boost from the Battle of Gods stuff.

So until Toyo says from his own mouth either through his characters or his own words that Vegeta kept the power of his rage boost, Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta being even with Super Saiyan 1/2 Black is unexplained bullshit.

[Basako]

You show the chapter showing that it was temporary, you are the one making a problem from this. If you don't, we don't have to assume it was, if it causes problems as you imply it does.

Vegeta's SS2 isn't special, it's just very strong.

You stop using your headcanon as fact.

In other words, you have nothing other than the assumption that Vegeta's rage boost wasn't temporary and he kept the power of an enraged Super Saiyan despite the manga never telling anyone this, unlike with Trunks where everyone marveled at his powerful Super Saiyan 2 form. We couldn't even get a line from Goku explaining how Vegeta kept the power of his rage boost.

In other words, you don't have a leg to stand on other than assumptions. And it isn't for me prove, you know why, because Toyo wrote it. He should tell the audience that Vegeta's kept the rage boost from the Battle of Gods stuff.

So until Toyo says from his own mouth either through his characters or his own words that Vegeta kept the power of his rage boost, Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta being even with Super Saiyan 1/2 Black is unexplained bullshit.

You are the one making a problem about Vegeta's power without putting any evidence, when you do, I'll believe you have a valid point. For now, you showed nothing. Power scaling between this two arcs is consistent, only refuted by a theoretical temporary state that can't be proved and even if it was it wouldn't be a big problem either because Vegeta trained a lot in the middle.

And in the previous comment you even say that Vegeta not using SS2 again after that implies it was temporary. No it doesn't, that's just in your head, it doesn't imply that at all. Man, you are constantly accusing others of using headcanon, but you are the one doing it.

He doesn't have to state everything, if he shows Vegeta's SS2 is stronger than Trunks's twice, man, you've better accept it. We don't have to be spoon-fed with explanations all the time. I like when he explains things, some people complain about that, but, man, if Vegeta punches Black in the face, we don't need other character stating it, we saw it.

[Abra kadabra]

-snip-

You completely dodged the question. Vegeta's "stronger than SSJ3 goku" SSJ2 was introduced in BOG before he trained with whis. You're arguing that it's permanent because he used it again in the FT arc. So instead of questioning that. Let's assume you're right and I'll ask you, what is it and why is it more powerful than SSJ3?

[Basako]

-snip-

You completely dodged the question. Vegeta's "stronger than SSJ3 goku" SSJ2 was introduced in BOG before he trained with whis. You're arguing that it's permanent because he used it again in the FT arc. So instead of questioning that. Let's assume you're right and I'll ask you, what is it and why is it more powerful than SSJ3?

Hey, if you quote me, leave the quote. This is what I wrote:

I'm not confirming it was permanent, it wasn't stated either. But I'm not the one trying to make a continuity problem with something that wasn't stated like the temporary condition. Those are the ones that should put some evidence on the table. You say it was temporary and that it causes problems, prove it.

Even if I consider the temporary state as a theory, why not, it wouldn't be a big problem, as we know Vegeta trained hard with Wish to obtain the god states, so some improvement would make total sense. But, again, this is just a theoretical scenario.

If anything, the fight against Black gave us more reasons to believe the boost was permanent rather than temporary.

So basically that, your question is answered. When you bring me prove that it was temporary, I may start considering there may be a problem with Vegeta being stronger than Trunks in SS2, until then, I won't.

[Abra kadabra]

-snip-

You completely dodged the question. Vegeta's "stronger than SSJ3 goku" SSJ2 was introduced in BOG before he trained with whis. You're arguing that it's permanent because he used it again in the FT arc. So instead of questioning that. Let's assume you're right and I'll ask you, what is it and why is it more powerful than SSJ3?

Hey, if you quote me, leave the quote. This is what I wrote:

I'm not confirming it was permanent, it wasn't stated either. But I'm not the one trying to make a continuity problem with something that wasn't stated like the temporary condition. Those are the ones that should put some evidence on the table. You say it was temporary and that it causes problems, prove it.

Even if I consider the temporary state as a theory, why not, it wouldn't be a big problem, as we know Vegeta trained hard with Wish to obtain the god states, so some improvement would make total sense. But, again, this is just a theoretical scenario.

If anything, the fight against Black gave us more reasons to believe the boost was permanent rather than temporary.

So basically that, your question is answered. When you bring me prove that it was temporary, I may start considering there may be a problem with Vegeta being stronger than Trunks in SS2, until then, I won't.

I snipped it because the chain was too long and I'm on mobile. Anyways you dodged the question again. You haven't answered the question instead handwaving the absence of explanation as insignificant when that's what the problem is. If the form is permanent then it's a retroactive asspull. That's consistent with your line of reasoning.

[Basako]

You completely dodged the question. Vegeta's "stronger than SSJ3 goku" SSJ2 was introduced in BOG before he trained with whis. You're arguing that it's permanent because he used it again in the FT arc. So instead of questioning that. Let's assume you're right and I'll ask you, what is it and why is it more powerful than SSJ3?

Hey, if you quote me, leave the quote. This is what I wrote:

I'm not confirming it was permanent, it wasn't stated either. But I'm not the one trying to make a continuity problem with something that wasn't stated like the temporary condition. Those are the ones that should put some evidence on the table. You say it was temporary and that it causes problems, prove it.

Even if I consider the temporary state as a theory, why not, it wouldn't be a big problem, as we know Vegeta trained hard with Wish to obtain the god states, so some improvement would make total sense. But, again, this is just a theoretical scenario.

If anything, the fight against Black gave us more reasons to believe the boost was permanent rather than temporary.

So basically that, your question is answered. When you bring me prove that it was temporary, I may start considering there may be a problem with Vegeta being stronger than Trunks in SS2, until then, I won't.

I snipped it because the chain was too long and I'm on mobile. Anyways you dodged the question again. You haven't answered the question instead handwaving the absence of explanation as insignificant when that's what the problem is. If the form is permanent then it's a retroactive asspull. That's consistent with your line of reasoning.

No man, I answered your question. The thing is you people are the ones trying to prove an inconsistency without any evidence, so without it, there is no problem at all. If anything, the point of the permanent boost won more points when Vegeta showed that he had it again against Black. It's not retroactive asspull, because there wasn't a problem in the first place, if there was, prove it. It's totally consistent, Vegeta had a huge boost against Beerus triggered by rage, he showed he had that power again against Black and nothing contradicts that in any way. If there is something, show it and we'll discuss.

Toyotaro doesn't have to counter explain people's headcanons, if somebody thought Vegeta's boost was temporary, it's his problem, but that was never more than a fan made theory.

[Abra kadabra]

Hey, if you quote me, leave the quote. This is what I wrote:



So basically that, your question is answered. When you bring me prove that it was temporary, I may start considering there may be a problem with Vegeta being stronger than Trunks in SS2, until then, I won't.

I snipped it because the chain was too long and I'm on mobile. Anyways you dodged the question again. You haven't answered the question instead handwaving the absence of explanation as insignificant when that's what the problem is. If the form is permanent then it's a retroactive asspull. That's consistent with your line of reasoning.

No man, I answered your question. The thing is you people are the ones trying to prove an inconsistency without any evidence, so without it, there is no problem at all. If anything, the point of the permanent boost won more points when Vegeta showed that he had it again against Black. It's not retroactive asspull, because there wasn't a problem in the first place, if there was, prove it. It's totally consistent, Vegeta had a huge boost against Beerus triggered by rage, he showed he had that power again against Black and nothing contradicts that in any way. If there is something, show it and we'll discuss.

Toyotaro doesn't have to counter explain people's headcanons, if somebody thought Vegeta's boost was temporary, it's his problem, but that was never more than a fan made theory.

When has a rage boost ever been permanent outside of a new transformation?

[Basako]

I snipped it because the chain was too long and I'm on mobile. Anyways you dodged the question again. You haven't answered the question instead handwaving the absence of explanation as insignificant when that's what the problem is. If the form is permanent then it's a retroactive asspull. That's consistent with your line of reasoning.

No man, I answered your question. The thing is you people are the ones trying to prove an inconsistency without any evidence, so without it, there is no problem at all. If anything, the point of the permanent boost won more points when Vegeta showed that he had it again against Black. It's not retroactive asspull, because there wasn't a problem in the first place, if there was, prove it. It's totally consistent, Vegeta had a huge boost against Beerus triggered by rage, he showed he had that power again against Black and nothing contradicts that in any way. If there is something, show it and we'll discuss.

Toyotaro doesn't have to counter explain people's headcanons, if somebody thought Vegeta's boost was temporary, it's his problem, but that was never more than a fan made theory.

When has a rage boost ever been permanent outside of a new transformation?

We don't know, rage boosts have never been measured, the term has never been used in universe either, only by fans. What we know is that this boost looks to be permanent, considering he showed this power again against Black and nothing indicates it was temporary, nothing.

[LightBing]

How is this Mutated SSJ2 conversation still going on?

It's unbelievable straightforward:
Vegeta becomes stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Nobody says/implies if it's permanent or not, it's literally not talked about. The next time Vegeta goes SSJ2 he shows power that tell us the previous power up become permanent. That's it.

It's like Gohan getting angry and getting very strong against Cell. Only afterwards did we get confirmation that it was permanent and that it was SSJ2.

[Abra kadabra]

How is this Mutated SSJ2 conversation still going on?

It's unbelievable straightforward:
Vegeta becomes stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Nobody says/implies if it's permanent or not, it's literally not talked about. The next time Vegeta goes SSJ2 he shows power that tell us the previous power up become permanent. That's it.

It's like Gohan getting angry and getting very strong against Cell. Only afterwards did we get confirmation that it was permanent and that it was SSJ2.

"mutated ssj2"? If I may ask where did you pull this mutated description from?

[Abra kadabra]

With this line of thinking then the anime doesn't have any power scaling issues either. Good to know.

[Basako]

How is this Mutated SSJ2 conversation still going on?

It's unbelievable straightforward:
Vegeta becomes stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Nobody says/implies if it's permanent or not, it's literally not talked about. The next time Vegeta goes SSJ2 he shows power that tell us the previous power up become permanent. That's it.

It's like Gohan getting angry and getting very strong against Cell. Only afterwards did we get confirmation that it was permanent and that it was SSJ2.

"mutated ssj2"? If I may ask where did you pull this mutated description from?

Mutated SS2 is just a fan made term used in forums. Factually, we only know it was an stronger SS2, that's all.

With this line of thinking then the anime doesn't have any power scaling issues either. Good to know.

Nice try. The anime has its own power scaling problems. The manga has some too, but not this one.

[Abra kadabra]

How is this Mutated SSJ2 conversation still going on?

It's unbelievable straightforward:
Vegeta becomes stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Nobody says/implies if it's permanent or not, it's literally not talked about. The next time Vegeta goes SSJ2 he shows power that tell us the previous power up become permanent. That's it.

It's like Gohan getting angry and getting very strong against Cell. Only afterwards did we get confirmation that it was permanent and that it was SSJ2.

"mutated ssj2"? If I may ask where did you pull this mutated description from?

Mutated SS2 is just a fan made term used in forums. Factually, we only know it was an stronger SS2, that's all.

With this line of thinking then the anime doesn't have any power scaling issues either. Good to know.

Nice try. The anime has its own power scaling problems. The manga has some too, but not this one.

With rage boosts now being unquantifiable, fully acceptable and permanent, I don't see how. Unless you're a hypocrite but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Name them.

[Basako]

"mutated ssj2"? If I may ask where did you pull this mutated description from?

Mutated SS2 is just a fan made term used in forums. Factually, we only know it was an stronger SS2, that's all.

With this line of thinking then the anime doesn't have any power scaling issues either. Good to know.

Nice try. The anime has its own power scaling problems. The manga has some too, but not this one.

With rage boosts now being unquantifiable, fully acceptable and permanent, I don't see how. Unless you're a hypocrite but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Name them.

I'm not a hypocrite, what is your problem? Not all power scaling problems are related to rage boosts, this was a very specific discussion about Vegeta's SS2. The anime has its problems and the manga has some too. Name what? I'm not gonna name anything just because you ask for it so rudely.