What is your opinion of Super?

[Shinda Forever]

It is much better than DBGT but it is miles away from Z in every department, furthermore, they lack a great cast with variety. Hitto should have been a major player in the Zamasu's arc.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

I've seen several other similar threads to this one in recent months, but haven't gotten around to throwing my magical number rating for the anime adaptation of Super out there. Of course, the series is still on-going, but I think that 92 episodes in -- and 5 story arcs -- is enough for me to attach a number to this thing. Whatever happens from this point on, I can't really see things changing that much.

So... I, uh, got lost in the ocean of Zephyr's post... and I stamp it emphatically with full approval. Every. Single. Word.

Most of my problems with Super (the anime) as a continuation of Dragon Ball and Z can be nutshelled into this:

[...] I think that creating something with greater artistic merit is obviously under-prioritized, and all the same, made inherently more difficult. There's no need to put as much care into something, if it's going to do well regardless. And I think it shows. Like, a lot.

For me, I liked a DB animated series much better when it was created by a production co. with only the Japanese viewing audience in mind. Catering to the international market in today's era, I feel, has left this attempt at a DB series devoid of the life, charm, mystique, and soul that it once had (this series feels/looks/sounds like it's packaged for ages 3-7 way more obviously so than the previous series). Yeah, it's DB and I'm having fun with it, but it's been noticeably cheapened and it plays everything so safe. Basically, the corporate machine and the shareholders involved gotta get their numbers... I guess. That's not to say though, that I don't believe that the staff involved with its production aren't working extremely hard amidst this typhoon of poor planning.

I have just two reasons for why I began watching Super, and why I'll continue with it until the end of its run. It's a new DB series with Toriyama being involved in some way. And I'm always up for hearing the returning seiyuu get thrown back into these familiar roles -- this series feels like a last hurrah! for them and I would like to stick with it and hear them through to the end. I didn't, however, have any idea just how much would be missing from this series.

Back to the charm and mystique aspect of the previous series. Obviously, a great deal of this area was brought to life through the old sound design. The entire sound design -- the old sound cues, sound effects, and Kikuchi's soundtrack -- but also so important... the silence. Super falls far down below on every level in comparison to what came before it in this area. As has been mentioned, the wuxia-rooted soundtrack and feel are deeply missed.

I have not seen Dragon Ball GT, and I have no interest in doing so (I love me some Goku, but... not the Goku show). I have listened to a good chunk of Tokunaga's score for that series recently, and I get some DB vibes without even attaching the music to any particular scenes. It's worthy enough, imo. Sumitomo's score* is... just not good at all for a DB series -- it's video game music at best. Also, it appears that TOEI is copying FUNi's approach (with their old replacement OST) and getting by on cheap, unfitting arrangements and near wall-to-wall placement. It all goes back to the idea that it's Dragon Ball, and it's going to sell hot (now worldwide), so why bother with quality and spending extra money (?). *Not that I think that Sumitomo is an untalented composer.

I've appreciated some things that Super has done. I get to see some of the "lesser" characters getting some notice, as well as some rare interactions. The backgrounds and weather effects on this series are just beautiful, and really help to add an atmosphere and element of life to a scene. I've enjoyed several of the new characters that have been introduced in recent years, as well as exploring more of the hierarchy. I like that I get to see DB go outside of its usual bubble and into the multiverse -- this opens up so many possibilities down the line. And also, somewhat of an attempt has been made to level the playing field a bit as far as battle powaa's go to give "lesser" characters more to do (this last one has been handled horribly though and forgetting that Z ever happened is the only way to cope with it).

But, while I enjoy certain aspects, I have to contend with consistently off-model characters, stiff/awkward animation, ugly/shiny/oversaturated color palette/filter, oftentimes glossed over details, lack of any tension, lack of buildup, lack of a scene having any weight or impact, character and story inconsistencies, terribly unfitting soundtrack and placement, and general lackluster presentation. It wasn't until Episode 77 that this series got a worthy Opening song, Last Ep/Next Ep music, and Title Card and Eyecatches music. Some of the Ending songs have been simply put, horrid (particularly "Forever Dreaming"). This series borders on feeling like a sitcom oftentimes.

To get straight to the end of this -- because I didn't intend to go so far into the negatives -- if I were to assign a number to this series, based on it being a continuation of Dragon Ball and Z, it would be a 2/10. As an overall product.

I have not read the Super manga.

I'm just going to have fun with Super while it's around. I find that just going with the flow of whatever happens is the only way to keep with it. I never imagined that I'd be seeing a new DB series (with many returning original seiyuu!), especially not at virtually the same time that it's airing in its homeland. It's also fun being a Kanzenshuu member and coming here from time to time and getting peeks at upcoming episodes, writing silly comments, and reading up on the latest leaks and the fusses that follow (I've even been guilty of this once ) while this series is going on. Who would've thought... ?

[Zagacious]

Overall rating for DBS

I like the new concepts very much: gods, alternate universe saiyans, Hit a time manipulating assassin, a kai going bad. It all sounds really awesome and something that would be in Dragon Ball world.

For new concepts, I give them 8/10


As far as characters, I like the personalities of all the new people, outside of U7, such as Hit, Frost, etc, but the personalities of the U7 people is sometimes trashed for comedy purposes (Roshi) (Goku) (Vegeta). I understand this is Dragon Ball and has a lot of comedy, but sometimes it's just taken too far at the expense of making characters look just plain stupid or in Roshi's case, sex offender.

For character development 6/10


However, it seems like too much effort is put into the wrong places. They put good effort into creating new characters, but not much effort into actually explaining them beyond the surface. Many weeks I've watched only 2-3 minutes of an episode and just skipped the rest because nothing actually happened, not even meaningful conversation. This was especially bad during Black Goku and early Tournament of Power. I don't know if it's a production issue or what but it seems like they were trying to stretch one episode worth of content across 4-5 episodes. I have to give this one a bad rating considering how many episodes I have almost entirely skipped through waiting and waiting for something to happen then nothing did. A lot of people defend these episodes and say they are for character building but most of the time the character is not 'built' at all except simply existing in that episode.

For episode/arc structure, consistency, and flow 3/10


For fight scenes and training scenes, they started off really good with having Goku and Vegeta training with Whis, but now they kind of stopped showing training altogether and instead people are just getting stronger inbetween episodes, even if very little actual time passed in that episode, someone can suddenly be as strong in the next episode as the plot requires, without any explanation whatsoever, not even a quick reference to them training behind the scenes. We've gotten some very good fights, but a majority of the ones that potentially could be really good they didn't spend much time on. Goku vs Hit, Goku vs Toppo were all great fights. Black Goku arc had a few good fight scenes, but the huge amount of inconsistency of fights just makes it almost feel pointless to watch and just skip to the end of the fights.

For fighting/training/power scaling I give it 5/10


Overall this makes my rating around a 5.5/10, which isn't terrible, but definitely has some major problems. I do think it's improving though now that we've gotten toward the Tournament of Power beginning.

I also feel I should rate on an individual arc basis:

BoG, RoF - 7/10
had some major problems, but are forgivable due to the series just starting, and the fact they remade something that already existed should give this a very poor rating, but on its own I give it a good rating

U6 arc 8/10
Although the first major portion of the tournament was rushed too hard, the portion with Hit made up for it. The only thing that could be improved was to explore the other characters more and not have them be eliminated in 10 seconds.

Magic Water Arc 7/10
For a supposed filler I really liked this arc, if only it wasn't wasted and actually used Gotenks like it seemed like it would, it could be an 8. The villain seems like he could potentially be very strong and have his own arc if he made enough copies. This arc feels less like filler than a lot of the supposed canon episodes.. so it deserves a decent rating for that.

Black Goku Arc 5/10
Awesome ideas, awesome characters. Horrible execution, pacing, consistency, and rushed ending gives this a lower rating. The only thing I really liked about this arc was the idea of Black Goku and kai going evil, because everything else was very poor IMO. Also bringing back Vegito and the Portara earrings just to make them completely useless was unnecessary, and gives a lot of people a bad taste in their mouth, the only thing it really accomplished was demolishing any sort of DBS power scale that existed. "You wanted Vegito back? Well now he's useless"

Recruitment Arc 5/10
Wasted a lot of time that's supposed to be meant for building up our characters preparing and training for the tournament, and just showing them doing everyday activities we've already seen before and the ones that actually know about the erasing don't really seem to care kind of kills any suspense. I would rate this much lower if it hadn't started improving on episode 90/91.

[Misirius]

But with only 3 U6 Saiyans and them not being too far off from Goku's age (I'd estimate a 20 year age difference) where were these U6 Saiyan's during the time of Planet Vegeta. How are these beings on a separate planet? Do they not all originate in the same area? How have they had time to progress and become less primitive?

The U6 Saiyans never had a war to move to Planet Vegeta like the U7 did, which means they lived in a much more calm and stable way of living, which makes me suppose they had more children, and the dominant gene type (no tail) started to appear a lot more, getting to a point where there are no Saiyans with tails. Having no tails is a survivability advantage, it was much more of a weakness than a strength

[Low Tone G]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

[GodKaio-Ken]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

DB and DBZ are very different shows at their heart, enjoying one more doesnt make it "better" objectively. I'm not sure what evidence someone would even use to support that.

[Low Tone G]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

DB and DBZ are very different shows at their heart, enjoying one more doesnt make it "better" objectively. I'm not sure what evidence someone would even use to support that.

Do you want evidences?
1. DB has Goku being more of a person than DBZ ever had him.
2. People consider DBZ as a fighting anime when DBZ is all about flashy techniques, transformations and brute force to take down an enemy, when DB really has decent fighting sequences.
3. Decent story telling and decent outcomes, DBZ has neither of them, but unrealistic adventures and people that are far from being moral or sentinent beings.
4. Inconsistencies and introduction of those damn power levels just to mess them up in the acutal story.
5. DBZ really lacks endearing moments, at least not those which catch man off-guard, DB has plenty of them.
6. DBZ although had Master Roshi, but he is not that of a person and martial arts master than he used to be, I'm glad Super tries to use him for that purpose(with lack of success though, but still).
7. Bulma's almost a side-character in DBZ when she meant to the female protagonist of the anime, but that's due to the incomprehensible sci-fi what DBZ has become.
8. And last but not the least, the humor...

[GodKaio-Ken]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

DB and DBZ are very different shows at their heart, enjoying one more doesnt make it "better" objectively. I'm not sure what evidence someone would even use to support that.

Do you want evidences?
1. DB has Goku being more of a person than DBZ ever had him.
2. People consider DBZ as a fighting anime when DBZ is all about flashy techniques, transformations and brute force to take down an enemy, when DB really has decent fighting sequences.
3. Decent story telling and decent outcomes, DBZ has neither of them, but unrealistic adventures and people that are far from being moral or sentinent beings.
4. Inconsistencies and introduction of those damn power levels just to mess them up in the acutal story.
5. DBZ really lacks endearing moments, at least not those which catch man off-guard, DB has plenty of them.
6. DBZ although had Master Roshi, but he is not that of a person and martial arts master than he used to be, I'm glad Super tries to use him for that purpose(with lack of success though, but still).
7. Bulma's almost a side-character in DBZ when she meant to the female protagonist of the anime, but that's due to the incomprehensible sci-fi what DBZ has become.
8. And last but not the least, the humor...

Those are all personal opinions of what made the show good...not facts...

I love DB but Z is better in a couple ways while the original DB is better in others IMO.

[Low Tone G]

Those are all personal opinions of what made the show good...not facts...

I love DB but Z is better in a couple ways while the original DB is better in others IMO.

If you also share those points that I've made, then yes, those are facts. And I'm sure people also think the same. DBZ is not bad anime and like you said, it's an another approach to the same story, so it can be compared to its prequel.

If flashy and bloody moments, or lower rates of unpredictability can be treated as positives, then yes, DBZ is better in that regard.

I'm open to listen what are the positives of DBZ compared to older anime?

[Zagacious]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

DB and DBZ are very different shows at their heart, enjoying one more doesnt make it "better" objectively. I'm not sure what evidence someone would even use to support that.

I don't think he really knows what objectively means. It makes absolutely no sense to say 'I think this show is the best' and say that's objective.

[Low Tone G]

For me, Super fluctuates between being okayish and rightout bad.
Everyone compares it to DBZ, when objectively DBZ isn't the best part of the franchise, the first Dragon Ball anime was.

Comparing to DBZ Super is at best mediocre, but comapring to Dragon Ball of old is rightout just a parody and it's very unoriginal.

Toei does not generate real circumstances for surprises(maybe due to it's aimed for kids or due to they are stuck in this damn 10 years).

We allways knew that it's a gag anime, but the humor it's not decent at all, at least not the level of DB of old.

But this anime on it's own is a good entertainment, in that sense i'd give it a 7/10.

Compared to DBZ: 5-6/10
Compared to DB: 1-3/10

DB and DBZ are very different shows at their heart, enjoying one more doesnt make it "better" objectively. I'm not sure what evidence someone would even use to support that.

I don't think he really knows what objectively means. It makes absolutely no sense to say 'I think this show is the best' and say that's objective.

Be sure that I know that meaning of the word.. I'm not saying that is the best. It's true that I personally can not decide which is the best, either. But I think DBZ is way overrated, and on the other hand DB was generally underrated. I don't really see why should the DBZ be the ultimate standard of this franchise.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Be sure that I know that meaning of the word.. I'm not saying that is the best. It's true that I personally can not decide which is the best, either. But I think DBZ is way overrated, and on the other hand DB was generally underrated. I don't really see why should the DBZ be the ultimate standard of this franchise.

You say that, but you're still using the word incorrectly, and your misunderstanding is highlighted when you say things like "I think". The word you're looking for is subjective.

[JazzMazz]

My opinion on Super is that it is unsalvageable from nearly every aspect.

The visuals flucuate on a whim due to poor pre-planning on the production side.

The characters don't don't really change or learn from their mistakes despite the shows efforts to develop them. That's not even mentioning how flanderised they often are.

The story arcs are either way too straight forward and dull due to them already being told, or are either extremely contrived with no satisfying finale.

This comes together to create a generally sub-par show that further discredits the franchise.

Score
Good/Mediocre/Bad

[keyz05]

It is a worthy successor to Z, in my opinion. However, I have to agree with the lack of character dev and the BoG and RoF being the worst retellings in DB history.

Overall: I'd just give it an 8/10, to be honest.

[Yamcha upset fan]

Its good, but I cant stand the power level inconsistences.

[Envy]

I think it certainly has issues, and I kind of have to turn off my brain to enjoy it. On the other hand, I do enjoy it. I think it is a better spiritual successor to Dragon Ball Z than...other previous attempts.

[buutenks]

BoG arc i really enjoyed and was glad they retoled it. BoG movie tbh bored me. so i give BoG retelling 9/10.
RoF arc was bad, very bad animation, I give it a 3/10. The movie was much better.
U6 arc was a decent arc with its ups and down. Would give it a 6/10, but seeing the char interactions and the epic Goku vs Hit id give it a solid 7.5/10.
Future Trunks arc, loved every episode and i really liked Goku Black's character so giving it a 9/10.Would give it 10/10 but the arc had animation issues here and there.
Now the slice of life episodes, were pure bliss, 10/10 for those.
Potaeufu arc was meh, mostly due to the animation not being as good like the majin vegeta vs goku fight. But i got to see ssj3 Gotenks and saw how OP base Vegeta was, so the mini arc gets points for that. 5/10 for potauefu mini arc.

Now over all, with the slice of life episodes added to the mix, i give Super 7/10(rof arc drags the score down a bit since it is still part of super so i cannot ignore it). This is because its one episode per week. If it would be every day id give it 9/10. If id have to watch old z one episode per week, well id proly give it a 5/10 lol, since the amount of filler it had was absurd.

Now how it compares to GT, well, GT feels closed off, it feels very small and forced. Tho I really enjoyed Super 17 mini arc, was a short and sweet arc, with nice fighting. However the first 15 ep were super lame, it only got good with the bebi arc. And the dragon arc i disliked apart from fire and ice shenron. So overall i place it at same level as the potaeufu arc just with better animation. So 5.5/10