Was it GT that didn't know what to do with Gohan?

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

So when Z ended on Toonami for me over a decade ago, I was fine with Gohan not being the one with to defeat Buu, at the 28th tournament, it didn't seem like nothing has really changed and while not participating in the tournament, I'm glad he got a happy ending with having a family. However when we got into GT, Gohan was shoved into the background and while it may have seemed like we may get some worthwhile stuff (Fighting Baby Goten and his heartfelt good bye to Piccolo), nothing became of it.

So I am asking this, if GT never exisited, do you think fans would still say Gohan was ruined? I feel like it was GT that didn't do much with his character that gave fans the notion Gohan was ruined and if it was from Z straight to Super then fans may have been a little bit more forgiving. Well until the Revival of F, then we probably would have been back on track.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

[Basaku]

I think the damage and obvious backtracking was already too apparent in Buu saga. Look how it starts, the opening which leaves no doubt this is the new main character and everyone knows it and accepts and then... back to Goku as if Cell arc nor start of Buu ever happened.

The backlash may have been less severe without GT, but it would still exist and it's on Toriyama. He constructed the story this way, moved the transition of main protagonist along throughout the saga and completed it and then backtracked.

[precita]

Gohan was still treated as a main protagonist all the way until the end of the Buu arc before he gets absorbed, so I don't think the problem was then. It was GT and then Toriyama treated Gohan like crap during the first two-three arcs of Super that caused it.

Gohan could have fought in the Champa tournament, he could have not been treated poorly when Freeza came to Earth....hell he could have even been included in the Zamasu arc and fighting alongside Future Trunks if he wanted to.

[sintzu]

At the end of the Buu arc he was the strongest non fused character and he got a lot of screen time and development so the Buu arc wasn't the problem.

GT didn't do anything with anyone so it wasn't just Gohan but at the very least he took part in its arcs which can't be said for Gohan in the Champa and Zamasu arcs.

[Vijay]

You know, dude was "ruination" in the making ever since Namek/Frieza Arc with his SSJ2 ascension (a ray of hope in the middling mud) being the sole brightest character moment before taking back 10 steps reverse with Great Saiyaman costume, sidelined for 25+ powerup ritual episodes, killed, becomes scholar finally mere spectator at EoZ. BANZAI!!!!!

[MozillaVulpix]

It depends how you define 'ruin', I guess. If it was because they made him look 'weak'...for all the flak GT gets, it didn't seem to be trying to consciously make Gohan look specifically weaker because he didn't train as much as he was a victim of the Super Saiyan 4 power gap, like everyone else in the cast. Although perhaps GT could be blamed for starting the idea that his strongest power was going Super Saiyan, which made people think he 'lost' his Ultimate power due to lack of training. Even though that seemed to be more literally everyone in the staff forgetting he had that power as opposed to consciously making him weaker.

If Gohan was 'ruined' because he didn't have much screentime or relevance in the story, then GT was very much 64 episodes of an example of that. And while you didn't have to give relevance to Gohan during GT, something like Super right now has shown just how relatively easy it's been to make him more than a glorified background member while still keeping the main focus on Goku.

If people really wanted to, they could read the epilogue of Z to see a character who, while happy and peaceful, could still be a major character if the story kept going on. So, in that case, the first moment anyone would have seen of Gohan being a relatively minor character who isn't that strong compared to Goku, the "ruined!" comparisons would have started regardless.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Yeah, it's funny originally the end of Z didn't bug me as much as Goku became the hero again. Through the when series Goku and Gohan shared the protagonist role. They traded roles when need be. Then GT came on and he was shoved into the background. Then it made me think how I didn't like much of the ending of the Buu saga since it made Gohan irrelevant. Then I looked back and it wasn't the Buu saga, it was GT that pretty much shafted Gohan. He doesn't need to fight a lot or anything, but they could have gave him a mentor role like Piccolo.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Gohan wall all over the place in the Boo Arc, you certainly can't blame that on GT. As for GT itself, it's not that they didn't know what to do, they just didn't bother giving him anything. GT wasn't about Gohan, it was really only about Goku and Pan from start to finish, and the only goal is to keep the Earth safe.

[lancerman]

At the end of the Buu arc he was the strongest non fused character and he got a lot of screen time and development so the Buu arc wasn't the problem.

GT didn't do anything with anyone so it wasn't just Gohan but at the very least he took part in its arcs which can't be said for Gohan in the Champa and Zamasu arcs.

To me that whole "strongest none fused character" thing never mattered all that much. The Boo arc was the first problem because that was where you really had to follow up his big win in the Android Arc.

It started out with Vegeta berating him for slowing down and not being as strong. Then he was sidelined. Then they built him back up and gave him a half decent fight before they jobbed him out to Buutenks. Then he gets absorbed. Then he dies unceremoniously with everyone that wasn't already killed. He plays no role in the final conflict with Kid Boo. Then the series ends with him reverting back to being a scholar and his father choosing someone else to be his successor. It un does everything that happened from the Saiyan arc through Android arc. It affirms that Gohan isn't going to be the new hero. Which is fine, if you tell the right story. There's a good story about Gohan being the strongest guy on the planet and choosing to be his own man and not being what everyone expects. That just isn't played out and he is put on the backburner behind his father and Vegeta.

GT really just sort of followed up on that. There's a reason both GT and Super ended up depowering Gohan and making him a weaker background character. That's where the Boo saga leaves him off. We saw at the start that if he doesn't commit himself to fighting he gets weaker and in the end he chooses not to be a fighter. Again that's fine if everything ends with the Boo arc because it finishes with Goku being the final hero (the guy who was the hero up to that point) and gives everyone a little happy ending. When you go past that, it is problematic how Gohan was used that arc. I mean at the end of the day it is an arc where the premise is Goku standing on the sidelines so that Gohan, Goten, and Trunks can take up his mantle, and then it ends with him and Vegeta fighting the final baddie and Goku bypassing all of them to pick a new protege after Gohan became a scholar and Goten and Trunks just wanted to be normal kids. For a series where it is always going to be about fighting, that does make Gohan a back ground character.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

GT really just sort of followed up on that. There's a reason both GT and Super ended up depowering Gohan and making him a weaker background character. That's where the Boo saga leaves him off. We saw at the start that if he doesn't commit himself to fighting he gets weaker and in the end he chooses not to be a fighter. Again that's fine if everything ends with the Boo arc because it finishes with Goku being the final hero (the guy who was the hero up to that point) and gives everyone a little happy ending. When you go past that, it is problematic how Gohan was used that arc. I mean at the end of the day it is an arc where the premise is Goku standing on the sidelines so that Gohan, Goten, and Trunks can take up his mantle, and then it ends with him and Vegeta fighting the final baddie and Goku bypassing all of them to pick a new protege after Gohan became a scholar and Goten and Trunks just wanted to be normal kids. For a series where it is always going to be about fighting, that does make Gohan a back ground character.

I do agree, that was one of the jarring things about the end of the Buu arc, Gohan was built up as the main protagonist and Goten and Trunks were being built up as great characters to fight along side Gohan. Then they got pushed to the side, which is a shame, because it seemed like they were going somewhere. Although atleast GT tried to give Trunks some spotlight, sure they made him more like Future Trunks but they tried to give him some spotlight.

[sintzu]

He plays no role in the final conflict with Kid Boo.

He might've done that to change things up cause he just beat the main villain in the previous arc and Vegeta didn't play a main role in the final battles against Freeza and Cell so he probably thought it would've been a good change to have Vegeta be there instead to keep things from being repetitive.

[lancerman]

He plays no role in the final conflict with Kid Boo.

He might've done that to change things up cause he just beat the main villain in the previous arc and Vegeta didn't play a main role in the final battles against Freeza and Cell so he probably thought it would've been a good change to have Vegeta be there instead to keep things from being repetitive.

Maybe, but Goku was in the final battles of all three tournaments, the Red Ribbon arc, the King Piccolo arc, the Saiyan arc, and the Freeza arc. The only one he wasn't there at the very end for was the Android arc because he died.

[sintzu]

Maybe, but Goku was in the final battles of all three tournaments, the Red Ribbon arc, the King Piccolo arc, the Saiyan arc, and the Freeza arc. The only one he wasn't there at the very end for was the Android arc because he died.

That's because he's the main character and although he wasn't alive at the end of the Cell games, he still played a very major role in it. He got a long epic fight with Cell and walked Gohan through his Kamehameha clash with him.

[Zephyr]

I feel like "not knowing what to do with Gohan" was a problem that Toriyama ultimately provided the genesis of. In the Buu arc, in the manga, he switched back to having Goku as the main protagonist. A common adage is that fan pressure made him switch, but every word we have from the man implies that he made the choice himself.

I think I understand why he made the choice. Goku works as a protagonist largely because his personality inherently creates conflict when it interacts with the world around him. We see a fantastical world, that itself has to play straight-man to Goku. It's an interesting dynamic, that I think serves as the most hilarious part of Dragon Ball.

Gohan doesn't have a personality that inherently breeds conflict. Neither do Trunks or Kaioshin. They're all the sorts of characters that serve as good foils for the main protagonist in Toriyama's stories, but not as well as the protagonist themselves. Goku will go out of his way to do stupid things for the sake of a challenge. Gohan is less likely to do so. He's more likely to say "No Fun Allowed" and inhibit that sort of story thrust. For that reason, a story with Gohan doesn't seem like one that Toriyama could naturally tell as well as someone more focused on that style of storytelling.

So, long story short, what I believe to be resulting from Toriyama himself, GT continues the trend of having Gohan as a supporting character. They don't really do anything cool with it, but they put him in the right spot, I think. Super's only continuing this. Super barely did anything with him prior to the Tournament of Power.

[TheZFighter]

I've always found Gohan to be a bit of an overrated character personally. I found him very annoying when he first debuted and generally a pretty dull character thereafter. However, the one point at which I've always really liked Gohan was after Elder Kai unlocked his latent power and he finally "stepped up" as a hero. I always cite Tien's "hardly recognise you Gohan. You've changed, inside and out. Good for you." quote as the one that sums it up best. Dragon Ball Z's great pretender finally became a man.

Anyway, I really wouldn't put it down to Toriyama, or even GT, not knowing what to do with Gohan. Quite the opposite in fact. Gohan might be part Saiyan but he does not possess the same genetic need to train, fight and compete that Goku and Vegeta do. Same with Goten and Trunks. I think in terms of attitude and personality they're all a lot more "Earthling" than they are Saiyan. This "scholar" thing was always hanging over his head and was only put off by him being called into action during times of crisis, so I've never found it out of character that Gohan didn't just continue training for no reason.

Yes, this is a fighting show, and yes, many may not like the fact that Gohan simply isn't just a fighting/ training machine like his father, but no, personally it doesn't bother me because it isn't out of character. I don't expect this to be a popular view, but it is just how it is.

I hate GT but I think it carried on down the path Gohan was already heading. Super did the same. You can't really blame either of them for that. However, as we've seen in Super, as the time when he'll be needed again approaches, Gohan will train again.

[ABED]

I know many like to put the love of battle on genetics, but personality isn't a genetic trait. Tenshinhan loves fighting as well and trains all the time. I don't think he's driven any less by a love of martial arts than Goku. He simply wasn't blessed with the genetics of Goku and Vegeta. I like Gohan's choice to not pursue fighting and wish Toriyama hadn't tried to make him the hero of the story.

[TheZFighter]

I know many like to put the love of battle on genetics, but personality isn't a genetic trait. Tenshinhan loves fighting as well and trains all the time. I don't think he's driven any less by a love of martial arts than Goku. He simply wasn't blessed with the genetics of Goku and Vegeta. I like Gohan's choice to not pursue fighting and wish Toriyama hadn't tried to make him the hero of the story.

I'm not saying personality is a genetic trait, but, Tarble aside, have they not always tried to portray full-blooded Saiyans as being particularly battle-hungry?

[TheGodfather93]

I've always found Gohan to be a bit of an overrated character personally. I found him very annoying when he first debuted and generally a pretty dull character thereafter. However, the one point at which I've always really liked Gohan was after Elder Kai unlocked his latent power and he finally "stepped up" as a hero. I always cite Tien's "hardly recognise you Gohan. You've changed, inside and out. Good for you." quote as the one that sums it up best. Dragon Ball Z's great pretender finally became a man.

Interesting. Personally, I always found Ultimate Gohan to be rather dull. He's certainly my least favourite version of Gohan. I understand why he's so popular, but in retrospect, he didn't actually do much. He was given an immense power that he didn't really earn, then got cocky against Buu and let himself and Gotenks get absorbed. I also felt the stoic hardass persona he adopted was way too out of character for him.

I liked Gohan the most when he was a kid on Namek, and when he was masquerading as the Great Saiyaman. To quote what I posted in another thread;

Kid Gohan was a badass who was fighting an intergalactic tyrant and his cronies in space at an age where most kids were still learning how to wipe their own asses. Even when he was outmatched, he still gave it his all, showing great character growth from how he was in the Saiyan arc. Great Saiyaman was just hilarious, and it was nice seeing Gohan do something noble and heroic while still having fun and being his goofy self.

[ABED]

I also felt the stoic hardass persona he adopted was way too out of character for him.

I don't think it's out of character as much as Gohan trying to emulate his father and Piccolo.

[TheZFighter]

I also felt the stoic hardass persona he adopted was way too out of character for him.

See the reason I quite liked it was because of the "hardass persona", because Elder Kai's Unlock Ability awoke Gohan's "sleeping" power and gave him the sort of confidence and assertiveness that we'd longed to see from him. It didn't work out as planned, obviously, because he was absorbed by Buu, but he ended the series as the strongest "unfused" character, which I actually liked despite my overall lack of interest in the character. He achieved what the likes of Goku and Piccolo had wanted of him.