Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DBZ Macky]

Wow, haha, boy do we argue over silly stuff.

Anyways, so I made a power level list of all the known characters from DBSuper.

I would like to preface this by saying I use the theory that in Battle of Gods Goku became a SSGod. After he dropped out of red hair, he was in SS1 but I label it as Semi-merged Super Saiyan God. Once he turned into Base and got stronger it was Merged Super Saiyan God.

This black-haired god form, I believe, fought Frieza in RoF, fought Copy-Vegeta, fought Monaka-Beerus, and fought Slim Buu.

If you are comfortable with entertaining this idea that is in my power level list, please view it. If you cannot move past this, I politely ask you to pass this by. I would prefer to keep the discussion constructive.

It is almost completed. I will be posting it soon.

I'd love to see your list.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I want to point out that finger-flicking (or something like it) almost never happens in Super even when fans speculate that it should, so we can't just say "Oh, character X didn't get finger-flicked so he's obviously closer to character Y". The writers don't analyze the power scale to the extent that they would have this occur for every instance of a wide gap between two characters. There was an enormous power discrepancy between Super Saiyan Trunks and Super Saiyan Rose Black and Trunks obviously wasn't getting finger-flicked, and there's also a bunch of other examples similar to that, so it's not really a valid way of measuring anything at all.

Heh... yeah I can totally picture posts like "well, nobody finger flicked Roshi so he's obviously close to X number of characters"...

Roshi is facing people many worlds above him in physical strength, but I'm sure folks already know this.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I will put a freshly unlocked LSS below SS2..
A trained thinned down version around SSB and higher

I get its all up to the plot to dictate how strong a character or form gets, so anything is possible really
Having said it seems excessive to put this "LSS" on SSG tier let alone SSB and based on what evidence? Brolly himself never showed greater power than SSJ2 in the movies

Its only the video games and unofficial material that hypes him up as some super powerful being

Also thinned down? The nature of the transformation is being bulky

I must point out that not every character at particular forms at this point in the series has to abide by a set power level. Cabba in base form could do much better than anyone in the Frieza arc in DBZ yet he wasn't even a Super Saiyan. Apply this exact logic to Kale, accessing a form even further than Cabba could achieve right now. Maybe not SSB tier but definitely a world above Broly.

Original SSJ in the current known Universe had quite a gap from 150 million to a massive some billions (3-6 billion) in the Cell Games. In Universe 6, Cabba started not very far from the upper end of that spectrum without previously knowing of the form.... Legendary Super Saiyan? We cannot possibly know what end of the spectrum this form start at, comparing to Broly in Universe 7. But I will assume a lot higher than Broly.

[Bullza]

There wasn't much to go on with this episode. The only thing that came to mind was Frieza and Goku punching each other.

They both hurt each other and Final Form Frieza should be Super Saiyan God level. So what does that mean?

Does it mean Goku just happened to be in Saiyan Beyond God form during that particular scene? Is there actually just one base after all and Base Goku has constantly been that strong since the Battle of Gods? Were they "caught off guard"?

If SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't hurt Copy Vegeta but Base Goku could hurt Frieza and Frieza is roughly as strong as Copy Vegeta....then does that mean Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? Which we know he was before.

Or again is that looking too much into it?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

There wasn't much to go on with this episode. The only thing that came to mind was Frieza and Goku punching each other.

They both hurt each other and Final Form Frieza should be Super Saiyan God level. So what does that mean?

Does it mean Goku just happened to be in Saiyan Beyond God form during that particular scene? Is there actually just one base after all and Base Goku has constantly been that strong since the Battle of Gods? Were they "caught off guard"?

If SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't hurt Copy Vegeta but Base Goku could hurt Frieza and Frieza is roughly as strong as Copy Vegeta....then does that mean Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? Which we know he was before.

Or again is that looking too much into it?

It's most likely just their great character interactions establishing how much they loathe each other, yet play off each other quite well.

Although, given Goku's gains since he first became a SSG, his base form likely isn't that far off from Freeza's Final Form power, even now. Maybe, at most, twice as strong, a little bit more or less.

[Marlowe89]

If SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't hurt Copy Vegeta but Base Goku could hurt Frieza and Frieza is roughly as strong as Copy Vegeta....then does that mean Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? Which we know he was before.

Now that I think about it, numerous times in Super we've seen that characters can budge, knock back, harm or even severely injure other characters who are monumentally stronger than they are if the latter is caught off-guard. There's no way in hell that Sorbet's laser or the bullet in Episode 77 had more power than Goku, but he was still affected by them. Similarly, there's no way that Trunks was remotely close to Black's power just because he kicked him into a wall. So Frieza was likely just caught off-guard.

At this point, I'd say the Copy Vegeta scene was either an outlier or an instance of Copy Vegeta guarding with his ki.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't hurt Copy Vegeta but Base Goku could hurt Frieza and Frieza is roughly as strong as Copy Vegeta....then does that mean Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? Which we know he was before.

Now that I think about it, numerous times in Super we've seen that characters can budge, knock back, harm or even severely injure other characters who are monumentally stronger than they are if the latter is caught off-guard. There's no way in hell that Sorbet's laser or the bullet in Episode 77 had more power than Goku, but he was still affected by them. So Frieza was likely just caught off-guard.

At this point, I'd say the Copy Vegeta scene was either an outlier or an instance of Copy Vegeta guarding with his ki.

Well, Goku and Vegeta were taught to not let their Ki leak out in addition to only raising it within whatever body part they were using to attack. Perhaps the same could be applied here, but for defending against attacks by raising most of their Ki in a specific area about to be hit.

[fadeddreams5]

The dramaticness of Frieza's transformation in episode 94 is proof that Golden Frieza is stronger than SSJR Black. The latter's initial transformation (and every transformation after that) did not captivate the soul as much, so it stands to reason that Golden Frieza would finger bang him as badly as he did to that woof-ernary.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The dramaticness of Frieza's transformation in episode 94 is proof that Golden Frieza is stronger than SSJR Black. The latter's initial transformation (and every transformation after that) did not captivate the soul as much, so it stands to reason that Golden Frieza would finger bang him as badly as he did to that woof-ernary.

OR.......... The animators and artists went all-out with Freeza's transformation to hype up fans for the next episode where he goes on a murder spree.

[Noah]

Now Bullza made me wonder, current Final Form Freeza should be at least stronger than stronger than SSJ3 Goku in Z. If Goku could resist such punch it means his Base is way above that level, right?

[Bullza]

Now Bullza made me wonder, current Final Form Freeza should be at least stronger than stronger than SSJ3 Goku in Z. If Goku could resist such punch it means his Base is way above that level, right?

The Base Goku that fought Final Form Frieza should be much stronger than the Super Saiyan God Goku who fought Beerus.

Final Form Frieza should be around as strong as Super Saiyan God himself. In the movie he was further away from Goku than in the series.

So yeah if Goku can take that punch and then do equal damage back...it does make me wonder if he's still at the level he appeared to be at back when he fought Frieza before or when he fought Copy Vegeta and Beerus.

In other words there wouldn't be two bases especially as there'd be no need for Goku to be in Saiyan Beyond God form during that scene. It can all depend on context though, Frieza wouldn't be aiming to kill, he was caught off guard, they were suppressed etc but it does make you wonder.

[LowRyder2005]

I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly started to treat Final Form Freeza as inferior to a Super Saiyan. It's not like Freeza had any reason to punch Goku's guts out at that point, however.

[GodKaio-Ken]

He wasnt trying to kill Goku with that punch...it says NOTHING about his power level...are people seriously using that?

It was just a quick cheap shot to let Goku know "Yeah...youre helping me and I need you...but buddy we are still enemies"

[Bullza]

Well it's more so that Goku hurt Frieza actually.

Like I said if SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't even budge Copy Vegeta after wailing away at him and the difference in strength is much larger between Base Goku and Final Form Frieza then he shouldn't have been able to hurt him.

But he did so maybe they are similar in strength like in the Resurrection F saga.

[Animelover5487]

What does anyone think about 18's statement about Marron being tougher than she looks and leaving her on the island where poachers are constantly attacking? This was a bit surprising to me since Marron seems to be no stronger than an average girl but if this is true she may be sub to peak human level.

[wolflonnie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxlrKkZ1el4
OMG SCOUTER VEGETA IS SSG LEVEL!!
Come on, Freeza punching Goku was just for the sake of having a cool scene

[Hugo Boss]

It seems Sidra can send blasts from a different universe and Freeza apparently won't be harmed by them. Looking forward to this fight.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Well it's more so that Goku hurt Frieza actually.

Like I said if SSJ3 Gotenks couldn't even budge Copy Vegeta after wailing away at him and the difference in strength is much larger between Base Goku and Final Form Frieza then he shouldn't have been able to hurt him.

But he did so maybe they are similar in strength like in the Resurrection F saga.

Perhaps Frieza didnt think he would get punched back. Like "This monkey isnt that kind of guy" or hell...hes been saying his body has gone soft...maybe he wanted to be punched back.

[DBZ Macky]

It seems Sidra can send blasts from a different universe and Freeza apparently won't be harmed by them. Looking forward to this fight.

Nah, it was just the crystal ball that looks like the blast. If you look closely, both of his hands are down. I think the Doggo Assassin just gets a good surprise attack in on Freeza, and it's so huge that Sidra's crystal ball just lights up and shit.

Also, as much as I like it for adding a little more sense to the series' power-scaling, I have a strong feeling that the "2-base" theory will be completely debunked in just a few more episodes.

[Bullza]

If it does get debunked then the other theory that Goku just holds back as much as the plot calls for it would hold merit.

He couldn't be at Saiyan Beyond God levels and then spar evenly with Base Gohan twice, a Gohan who up until recently didn't even have his Ultimate Gohan power from back when he fought Buu. So there's either two Bases or he really does severely hold back depending on who he is fighting.