(spoilers)Zamasu Arc shouldn't have come before Universe Survival Arc and here's why:

[MisteryOne]

Merged Zamasu wasn't stronger than Beerus. Jiren is. This means that Jiren's gonna be a lot stronger than Merged Zamasu.

Where do you get this knowledge? You're just making up stuff based off incomplete details. No where is it stated that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. Hell given the OP Jiren won't one shot Goku which he should be able to do if he's stronger than Beerus!

Openings are not relieable in certain Shonen animes like Super. Anyway I dont think Jiren is the OP ningen since Whis would have said it. Also, this is Super. Merged Zamasu didn't kill the base saiyans despite being so much stronger.

[MisteryOne]

Merged Zamasu wasn't stronger than Beerus. Jiren is. This means that Jiren's gonna be a lot stronger than Merged Zamasu.

Where do you get this knowledge? You're just making up stuff based off incomplete details. No where is it stated that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. Hell given the OP Jiren won't one shot Goku which he should be able to do if he's stronger than Beerus!

Because the mortal Whis was talking about is clearly Jiren.

If thay was the case, why didn't Whis mention him? I have not seen the episode myself, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say his name. And considering Beerus was not nervous and not saying it's Jiren is pretty nonsensical from the writer's standpoint (why would you NOT hype Jiren?)...

[Kanassa]

Where do you get this knowledge? You're just making up stuff based off incomplete details. No where is it stated that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. Hell given the OP Jiren won't one shot Goku which he should be able to do if he's stronger than Beerus!

Because the mortal Whis was talking about is clearly Jiren.

If thay was the case, why didn't Whis mention him? I have not seen the episode myself, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say his name. And considering Beerus was not nervous and not saying it's Jiren is pretty nonsensical from the writer's standpoint (why would you NOT hype Jiren?)...

Yeah, if it was Jiren, Beerus wouldn't have been surprised and angry that Goku supposedly wasn't as strong as Jiren. Hell, he doesn't even seem to know of jiren's existence until Toppo mentions him.

[Doctor.]

Merged Zamasu wasn't stronger than Beerus. Jiren is. This means that Jiren's gonna be a lot stronger than Merged Zamasu.

That's debatable. We know from the manga that Vegetto Blue is potentially stronger than Beerus. If we assume he's as powerful as his anime counterpart, then purple goo merged Zamasu, who held his own against Vegetto and is stronger than the regular halo Zamasu, would also be Beerus level.

And nothing states that Jiren is stronger than Beerus, that's not a statement we can make at this point in time. He'll likely be stronger than Black, though, that much is obvious.

[Kanassa]

You say there is no context to judge if Black or Zamasu went against them. Well Black and Zamasu talked like they did wipe out the other universes, and if they did, they would need to be stronger than the folks in the current arc or they would have been stomped by them. I can't explain or answer your question any better.

I already said, it's a timeline 17 years into the future without any of Goku's interactions with other Universes.

[Zamasu55]

Where do you get this knowledge? You're just making up stuff based off incomplete details. No where is it stated that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. Hell given the OP Jiren won't one shot Goku which he should be able to do if he's stronger than Beerus!

Because the mortal Whis was talking about is clearly Jiren.

If thay was the case, why didn't Whis mention him? I have not seen the episode myself, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say his name. And considering Beerus was not nervous and not saying it's Jiren is pretty nonsensical from the writer's standpoint (why would you NOT hype Jiren?)...

He didn't say his name but I'm pretty sure it's him because Whis was referring to someone who's going to take part in the tournament and the main foe will be Jiren himself. Plus we have a clue in Toppo's bio where it says that he's so strong he could be a God of Destruction, yet Toppo himself said he's no match for Jiren.

[MagmonKai]

Because the mortal Whis was talking about is clearly Jiren.

If thay was the case, why didn't Whis mention him? I have not seen the episode myself, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say his name. And considering Beerus was not nervous and not saying it's Jiren is pretty nonsensical from the writer's standpoint (why would you NOT hype Jiren?)...

He didn't say his name but I'm pretty sure it's him because Whis was referring to someone who's going to take part in the tournament and the main foe will be Jiren himself. Plus we have a clue in Toppo's bio where it says that he's so strong he could be a God of Destruction, yet Toppo himself said he's no match for Jiren.

I think those are some pretty wild and exuberant claims with no basis on facts what so ever. Just because Whis mentions there's a mortal stronger than Beerus, you automatically assumes it's the U11 champion based off what exactly? Toppo's candidacy for GoD? I have no doubt that this "Jiren must be Supreme" fan theory of yours will be proven false once we enter the ToP. It's a good prediction though, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense considering the status of the characters in question.

[Zamasu55]

If thay was the case, why didn't Whis mention him? I have not seen the episode myself, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't say his name. And considering Beerus was not nervous and not saying it's Jiren is pretty nonsensical from the writer's standpoint (why would you NOT hype Jiren?)...

He didn't say his name but I'm pretty sure it's him because Whis was referring to someone who's going to take part in the tournament and the main foe will be Jiren himself. Plus we have a clue in Toppo's bio where it says that he's so strong he could be a God of Destruction, yet Toppo himself said he's no match for Jiren.

I think those are some pretty wild and exuberant claims with no basis on facts what so ever. Just because Whis mentions there's a mortal stronger than Beerus, you automatically assumes it's the U11 champion based off what exactly? Toppo's candidacy for GoD? I have no doubt that this "Jiren must be Supreme" fan theory of yours will be proven false once we enter the ToP. It's a good prediction though, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense considering the status of the characters in question.

Whis was referring to someone who's going to be in the tournament. Jiren is the main foe as he fights with Goku in the opening and was stated to be the strongest fighter in U11.
I won't be proven wrong and mine aren't wild claims.

[FortuneSSJ]

They should have had other sagas prior to this one to be honest. It would have more potential to be better had they waited on this.
There's 11 other Universes and prior to this saga we knew a bunch of characters from Universe 6 and Gowasu and that's it. They needed more sagas before this to build up more characters.
They rushed into this way too soon.

I agree with you, but I'm liking how they are doing it.

- 4 Universes are out of the Tournament and can be used later. This is good for the plot and also for the production (less 40 fighters to worry about).
- The exhibition matches did a good job in introducing Universe 9 team.
- Toppo challenging Goku and hype Jiren as stronger than him, making the Universe 11 the main opponent was well done. We have also been seeing the Pride Troopers in action.
- The big guns from other Universes are all getting introduced instead of being kept in secret (Brianne, Nigrisshi...)
- We already knew most of Universe 6 team.
- We already knew Gowasu, Zamasu and Barbarians from Universe 10, so a team of 10 new characters gathered by the GoD we didn't know of their Universe works.
- We will know more about Sidra/Quitela fighters in the next episodes when they try to defeat Freeza.

At least they are aware they need to do a proper build-up. If they followed Champa's arc pacing everything would be a mess.

[GodKaio-Ken]

He didn't say his name but I'm pretty sure it's him because Whis was referring to someone who's going to take part in the tournament and the main foe will be Jiren himself. Plus we have a clue in Toppo's bio where it says that he's so strong he could be a God of Destruction, yet Toppo himself said he's no match for Jiren.

I think those are some pretty wild and exuberant claims with no basis on facts what so ever. Just because Whis mentions there's a mortal stronger than Beerus, you automatically assumes it's the U11 champion based off what exactly? Toppo's candidacy for GoD? I have no doubt that this "Jiren must be Supreme" fan theory of yours will be proven false once we enter the ToP. It's a good prediction though, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense considering the status of the characters in question.

Whis was referring to someone who's going to be in the tournament. Jiren is the main foe as he fights with Goku in the opening and was stated to be the strongest fighter in U11.
I won't be proven wrong and mine aren't wild claims.

What? He never said the fighter was in the tournament. Its something people have assumed, but honestly the context of the question and answer could be either way.

It very well may be Jiren but it could also be foreshadowing a future arc.

I will say if it is Jiren I believe this will be the last arc of Super as it will mean Goku has matched or surpassed Beerus by fighting on par with Jiren. Assuming that happens.

[Beyond]

There is no way I could buy that everyone who could have stopped Zamasu just died because reasons. It's just super being super.

[Basaku]

We don't even know yet if Jiren is the actual villain of the saga. He will obviously be one critical character as the opening clearly indicates, but it may very well end up being Zen-oh or one of the gods.

[Zamasu55]

I think those are some pretty wild and exuberant claims with no basis on facts what so ever. Just because Whis mentions there's a mortal stronger than Beerus, you automatically assumes it's the U11 champion based off what exactly? Toppo's candidacy for GoD? I have no doubt that this "Jiren must be Supreme" fan theory of yours will be proven false once we enter the ToP. It's a good prediction though, I just don't think it makes a whole lot of sense considering the status of the characters in question.

Whis was referring to someone who's going to be in the tournament. Jiren is the main foe as he fights with Goku in the opening and was stated to be the strongest fighter in U11.
I won't be proven wrong and mine aren't wild claims.

What? He never said the fighter was in the tournament. Its something people have assumed, but honestly the context of the question and answer could be either way.

It very well may be Jiren but it could also be foreshadowing a future arc.

I will say if it is Jiren I believe this will be the last arc of Super as it will mean Goku has matched or surpassed Beerus by fighting on par with Jiren. Assuming that happens.

Goku asked if they could win the tournament. Whis said that thing. So this means that fighter's in the tournament.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Whis was referring to someone who's going to be in the tournament. Jiren is the main foe as he fights with Goku in the opening and was stated to be the strongest fighter in U11.
I won't be proven wrong and mine aren't wild claims.

What? He never said the fighter was in the tournament. Its something people have assumed, but honestly the context of the question and answer could be either way.

It very well may be Jiren but it could also be foreshadowing a future arc.

I will say if it is Jiren I believe this will be the last arc of Super as it will mean Goku has matched or surpassed Beerus by fighting on par with Jiren. Assuming that happens.

Goku asked if they could win the tournament. Whis said that thing. So this means that fighter's in the tournament.

Not really IMO

There is a possibility that because he does not know every fighter he is simply relaying something he knows generally about the universes. As in "I dont know...but I do know one universe has this...so it is something you may encounter"

Since Jiren has already been mentioned by name I find it odd Whis wouldnt do the same.

We also dont know Jiren is the strongest. Just because hes been built up that way so far doesnt make it true...it could be to create surprise later on.

In the end I'm definitely not saying it isnt Jiren...it probably is, but its based off assumptions really. Which is good...it means the story is engaging us.

[dbs fanboy]

Honestly, it may feel contrived but given the fact future Zamasu is inmortal, i can see it happening. If he caught any of those warriors of guard being apparently them, he could kill a lot of them using his blade (much more effective than a ki blast ). Or he could simply fight then until their stamina runs out and then kill them. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for devices like time machines and sensu beans, Goku, Vegeta and Trunks would have died in episodes 57, 61/62 and hell even in the finale. And Black and Zamasu have already demonstrated how dangerous can they be working together.

I agree with the sentiment here thought

[sunkensheep]

Are you entirely sure that Zamasu and Black said that they killed ALL the mortals in ALL the universes and Earth was their last stop? Maybe they were only talking about U7, and with only 28 planets it seems plausible.
As far as I remember, they said that they went to the other universes just to kill the other Kaioshins.

[lancerman]

"Every arc the villain has to be stronger than the last."

They don't NEED to be stronger, it all depends on how later fights are executed.

But this is Dragonball we're talking about. They don't need to be stronger, but they will be.

Isn't it like common opinion that Kid Boo was one of the weaker Boo's in the hierarchy next to regular Majin Boo and Super Boo

[FoolsGil]

Isn't it like common opinion that Kid Boo was one of the weaker Boo's in the hierarchy next to regular Majin Boo and Super Boo

Yes, but he's leagues above Cell. I'm talking about when comparing villains from subsequent arcs, not necessarily the same arc.

[sunkensheep]

Isn't it like common opinion that Kid Boo was one of the weaker Boo's in the hierarchy next to regular Majin Boo and Super Boo

Yes, but he's leagues above Cell. I'm talking about when comparing villains from subsequent arcs, not necessarily the same arc.

Is it? I always thought about Kid Buu as a pure concentrate of chaos with his full potential unleashed, while in his other forms his full power was never totally expressed. So I'm guessing that when they fought him he was the strongest of the Buu incarnations they met until then.

[lancerman]

Isn't it like common opinion that Kid Boo was one of the weaker Boo's in the hierarchy next to regular Majin Boo and Super Boo

Yes, but he's leagues above Cell. I'm talking about when comparing villains from subsequent arcs, not necessarily the same arc.

I still don't get why that matters though. The arc did finish with villain who was weaker than his immediate predecessors and heroes who were weaker than Gohan and Vegito. Freeza was weaker than Beerus. Every arc in the story doesn't need to one up the other one strength wise. That's how you get yourself in trouble trying to one up something you already made the ultimate.

I mean if we are being analytical the main antagonist of this arc is Zen-Oh who has the ability to erase entire universes. That instantly makes him the highest possible threat you could ever do in the series. Secondly there is a guy in the tournament who can't be killed by a god stronger than Beerus. We don't know that Zamasu is stronger than Beerus. At worst that puts that guy in the ball park of Zamasu if you give Zamasu a massive benefit of the doubt. Second this is the strongest and largest collection of fighters the main cast has ever faced and the margin for error is much lower than in a one on one fight. A ring out erases you forever and makes your team much weaker. Not to mention most teams are gunning for them for starting the tournament. This is the highest set of stakes, possibly the strongest single fighter (at least on par with Zamasu) and bar none the most stacked the odds are against them.