(spoilers)Zamasu Arc shouldn't have come before Universe Survival Arc and here's why:

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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FoolsGil
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Re: (spoilers)Zamasu Arc shouldn't have come before Universe Survival Arc and here's why:

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:14 am

lancerman wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
lancerman wrote: Isn't it like common opinion that Kid Boo was one of the weaker Boo's in the hierarchy next to regular Majin Boo and Super Boo
Yes, but he's leagues above Cell. I'm talking about when comparing villains from subsequent arcs, not necessarily the same arc.
I still don't get why that matters though. The arc did finish with villain who was weaker than his immediate predecessors and heroes who were weaker than Gohan and Vegito. Freeza was weaker than Beerus. Every arc in the story doesn't need to one up the other one strength wise. That's how you get yourself in trouble trying to one up something you already made the ultimate.

I mean if we are being analytical the main antagonist of this arc is Zen-Oh who has the ability to erase entire universes. That instantly makes him the highest possible threat you could ever do in the series. Secondly there is a guy in the tournament who can't be killed by a god stronger than Beerus. We don't know that Zamasu is stronger than Beerus. At worst that puts that guy in the ball park of Zamasu if you give Zamasu a massive benefit of the doubt. Second this is the strongest and largest collection of fighters the main cast has ever faced and the margin for error is much lower than in a one on one fight. A ring out erases you forever and makes your team much weaker. Not to mention most teams are gunning for them for starting the tournament. This is the highest set of stakes, possibly the strongest single fighter (at least on par with Zamasu) and bar none the most stacked the odds are against them.
I don't understand what side you're arguing for. How does this apply to Zamasu's Arc coming before or after the Universal Survival Arc.

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Re: (spoilers)Zamasu Arc shouldn't have come before Universe Survival Arc and here's why:

Post by lancerman » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:19 am

FoolsGil wrote:
lancerman wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
Yes, but he's leagues above Cell. I'm talking about when comparing villains from subsequent arcs, not necessarily the same arc.
I still don't get why that matters though. The arc did finish with villain who was weaker than his immediate predecessors and heroes who were weaker than Gohan and Vegito. Freeza was weaker than Beerus. Every arc in the story doesn't need to one up the other one strength wise. That's how you get yourself in trouble trying to one up something you already made the ultimate.

I mean if we are being analytical the main antagonist of this arc is Zen-Oh who has the ability to erase entire universes. That instantly makes him the highest possible threat you could ever do in the series. Secondly there is a guy in the tournament who can't be killed by a god stronger than Beerus. We don't know that Zamasu is stronger than Beerus. At worst that puts that guy in the ball park of Zamasu if you give Zamasu a massive benefit of the doubt. Second this is the strongest and largest collection of fighters the main cast has ever faced and the margin for error is much lower than in a one on one fight. A ring out erases you forever and makes your team much weaker. Not to mention most teams are gunning for them for starting the tournament. This is the highest set of stakes, possibly the strongest single fighter (at least on par with Zamasu) and bar none the most stacked the odds are against them.
I don't understand what side you're arguing for. How does this apply to Zamasu's Arc coming before or after the Universal Survival Arc.
I don't understand how it's confusing what I'm arguing for.

If your argument is that the Zamasu arc should have came later than the Universal Survival Arc because of the strength of the threat, it's not a good argument.

The stakes are higher: Zen-Oh can erase every universe. He's actually the character that defeated Zamasu in the last arc.
The strength of the opponents is arguably greater: There is a character in this arc who is likely stronger than Zamasu and then there are more characters the heroes have to face on top of that.
The odds are greater because of the nature of the tournament. Also anybody who dies in the tournament instantly gets erased.

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Re: (spoilers)Zamasu Arc shouldn't have come before Universe Survival Arc and here's why:

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:57 am

lancerman wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
lancerman wrote: I still don't get why that matters though. The arc did finish with villain who was weaker than his immediate predecessors and heroes who were weaker than Gohan and Vegito. Freeza was weaker than Beerus. Every arc in the story doesn't need to one up the other one strength wise. That's how you get yourself in trouble trying to one up something you already made the ultimate.

I mean if we are being analytical the main antagonist of this arc is Zen-Oh who has the ability to erase entire universes. That instantly makes him the highest possible threat you could ever do in the series. Secondly there is a guy in the tournament who can't be killed by a god stronger than Beerus. We don't know that Zamasu is stronger than Beerus. At worst that puts that guy in the ball park of Zamasu if you give Zamasu a massive benefit of the doubt. Second this is the strongest and largest collection of fighters the main cast has ever faced and the margin for error is much lower than in a one on one fight. A ring out erases you forever and makes your team much weaker. Not to mention most teams are gunning for them for starting the tournament. This is the highest set of stakes, possibly the strongest single fighter (at least on par with Zamasu) and bar none the most stacked the odds are against them.
I don't understand what side you're arguing for. How does this apply to Zamasu's Arc coming before or after the Universal Survival Arc.
I don't understand how it's confusing what I'm arguing for.

If your argument is that the Zamasu arc should have came later than the Universal Survival Arc because of the strength of the threat, it's not a good argument.

The stakes are higher: Zen-Oh can erase every universe. He's actually the character that defeated Zamasu in the last arc.
The strength of the opponents is arguably greater: There is a character in this arc who is likely stronger than Zamasu and then there are more characters the heroes have to face on top of that.
The odds are greater because of the nature of the tournament. Also anybody who dies in the tournament instantly gets erased.
Thanks. because you broke it down Barney Style for me, I'll break it down Barney Style for you.

1) Zeno doesn't matter. He's just there. The series will end if he becomes an enemy, so that's not going to ever happen. The nature of the tournament doesn't matter, because Goku is going to reach a higher plateau of power, and that's what matters

2) With the sorting algorithm of evil trope, if Zamasu comes after the Universal Survival Arc, he (and by he I mean Black) is going to be stronger than the mortal who's greater than the God who's stronger than Beers

3) The reason why the Zamasu Arc needs to come after the Universal Arc, is because during his own arc, Zamasu and Black stated they wiped out the mortals of all the other universes. There's a problem in that is that Black didn't get access to Goku's full power, and didn't create a SSJ God Variant until he fought Goku. And based on his first fight with Goku, and Black isn't immortal So, how could Black, who didn't get access to Goku's full power, go on to wipe out the mortals in all of the other universes, when this arc reveals mortals who are at SSJ Blue levels of power and higher. Black before actually fighting Goku would have had no chance against Toppo, let alone that strongest mortal.

4) Now, if the Zamasu arc came after the Universal Survival Arc, Black will have access to a stronger Goku. Because yet another trope, Goku is going to either defeat or tie with the strongest mortal. When that Future Zamasu becomes Black, he will have access to Goku post Universal Survival Arc, and would have the power to go on and defeat the strongest mortals in all the universes with no problems

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