GT vs. Super: Which is more damaging to the series' image?

[ABED]

DB and DBZ go in such different directions that they almost feel like two different IPs.

That's one of Toriyama's strong points that Super and GT couldn't do, change everything up while also being part of the previous story. DB&Z couldn't be more different from each other and I think people expected Super and GT to be their own thing as well but instead they played everything safe.

They could actually be seeing as how they aren't two different stories. It's all one story that built and changed over time. It didn't go straight from Pilaf to Raditz.

[Cetra]

Even my non-DB fan friends know that GT sucked and they can't tell Goku and Bardock apart.

How can they know something that is not a fact?

The answer to the original question is: None of them for real. I know a lot of people who are casual consumers, know GT and do not give a crap about any of the aspects that are so criticised, nor do they know these things. Everyone I know who hates GT hates it because they are only aware of a certain version that does not even half reflect what GT truly is or the don't give it a chance or they hop aboard the antii-hype-hype train.

Same goes for Super.

[sintzu]

It's all one story that built and changed over time. It didn't go straight from Pilaf to Raditz.

DB was more of an adventure story with more of a realistic take on fighting (more hand to hand combat) while Z is more of an action story that heavily focuses on explosions and transformations. Z gives other fighters a lot more important screen time than DB ever did.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's all one story that built and changed over time. It didn't go straight from Pilaf to Raditz.

DB was more of an adventure story with more of a realistic take on fighting (more hand to hand combat) while Z is more of an action story that heavily focuses on explosions and transformations. Z gives other fighters a lot more important screen time than DB ever did.

DB and Z both had tons of both hand to hand and ki fighting. Also, pre-Z DB only had 2 adventure stories out of 7 arcs total.

[Danfun64]

Super, as GT fit into established chronology without butting into anything in between, had the same level of ass-pulls as Goku Black's scythe or Future Trunk's Spirit Sword that is more powerful with the energy of a small group of weakened people than Goku's Spirit Bomb is with the energy of the galaxy, or completely destroyed established explanations like saying Super Saiyan requires back tingly things instead of strong emotion.

That said, it can be argued that Super's high moments are better than GT's high moments...so.....

[Vijay]

First and foremost we should ask ourselves has either GT or SUPER damaged the franchise image at all?

Have they done anything offensively damanging worth noting? IMO then being lackluster or having sloopy execution is not damaging at all when even the original series had the same problems of sloopy and lackluster execution (YMMV on when and what level said problems were back then).

The introduction of Beerus totally devalues Freeza's character, so BoG definitely did.

Couldnt say I disagree. Beerus (I fondly call him Egyptian Cat) is a disgrace to DB & a curse I might say

It was only after his intro we got the all sort of crap BS with Goddo/Goat that turned SSJ into Toriko, Obese Egyptian Cat (Chappa), 80's coinbox (Zeno), Rose SSJ phew!!!!

GT was bad. It had some good episodes. Besides, you can always go back to DB or Z.

Super comes outta nowhere proudly claiming its before EoZ & screwes everything great about Z in the process

Hell, even 5 year old kids would turn off the channel looking at Super's distorted faces, pitiful art, garbage characters & useless fights (90% of the time)

[precita]

GT ended the Dragonball franchise for 18 years in terms of all new material, so it's what essentially was the final death knell for Dragonball in the 90's.

Super's worst episodes are behind it, which were the movie adaptions, and since then it's had a consistent upswing. Of course not everyone will be happy, but it's introduced tons of popular arcs, characters, fights, and now we're seeing the extended cast involved again. Look at all the complaints about Gohan doing nothing for the longest time and now he's a major character again.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Both are garbage shows that couldn't live up to the mediocre standards set by the original series. I don't think the original series was anything great, but at least it was made with a vision.

GT failed to execute whatever the director's vision was spectacularly and I don't sense much of a vision from Super. It wasted two of the best talents at Toei after all. The main problem are the producers/marketing team and Toriyama too to an extent who are just coming up with ideas which I'm not a fan of at all. The execution is also horrible most of the times like GT.

DBS is still on going and I think it will have more impact in the long run, a negative one from a quality standpoint imo and GT will fade into obscurity even more than it already has.

[precita]

What do you guys want out of Super then at this point? The animation has improved tremendously since the start of the Zamasu arc, and even more since the start of this current arc. The other characters are now starting to get focus and development again, and hopefully it continues throughout the tournament. The overall plotlines ideas behind these tournaments and Zamasu have all been solid.

The only thing they need to do for me is eventually timeskip to EOZ, which is bound to happen anyway, so they can focus on Uub, adult Trunks/Goten, and Pan. And maybe Maron and Bra too but I don't care so much there.

[8000 Saiyan]

What do you guys want out of Super then at this point? The animation has improved tremendously since the start of the Zamasu arc, and even more since the start of this current arc. The other characters are now starting to get focus and development again, and hopefully it continues throughout the tournament. The overall plotlines ideas behind these tournaments and Zamasu have all been solid.

The only thing they need to do for me is eventually timeskip to EOZ, which is bound to happen anyway, so they can focus on Uub, adult Trunks/Goten, and Pan. And maybe Maron and Bra too but I don't care so much there.

I suppose they want Dragon Ball Super to have better characterisation and the animation to be more consistent. Funnily enough, the animation of DB, Z and GT isn't more consistent than Super's.

[ABED]

It's all one story that built and changed over time. It didn't go straight from Pilaf to Raditz.

DB was more of an adventure story with more of a realistic take on fighting (more hand to hand combat) while Z is more of an action story that heavily focuses on explosions and transformations. Z gives other fighters a lot more important screen time than DB ever did.

Again, it BUILT over time and I disagree that Z gave the other fighters more important screen time. Even assuming it did give them more time, I don't think the quality was nearly as good.

[Soppa Saia People]

Super, and it isn't even close. GT is just a side story. If you watched all of Dragon Ball, and than GT, it's not gonna ruin your enjoyment of the series. If you dislike, you can act like it doesn't exist, and if you like it, you can act like it's a sequel to the series.

Super on the other hand, starts injecting itself into other parts of the series, to the point, that not everyone can just ignore it. GT, for all of its faults, had the decency to not retcon anything.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Super. You can't hand wave it away like Toriyama, fans and co. did with GT by saying it's a "side story" (even though Super would've been more of a side story if the writers had cared about the context they were working in). Those retcons, weird characters and shitty new transformations are here to stay.

With regards to commercial success, I don't think it's really fair to compare the two. GT was coming off of more than a decade of brand new Dragon Ball material. Super was the first substantial new Dragon Ball material in nearly two decades. GT petering out was more likely than Super stalling at the start. What I find fascinating, however, is that Super hasn't really revived Dragon Ball's popularity. Its ratings are only marginally better than Kai's in the US and Japan. The only thing it seems to have resurrected have been merchandise sales and that's probably because no one wants 20 of the same Goku figure or to fight Raditz for the 10,000th time in a video game.

[TheGreatness25]

The only thing it seems to have resurrected have been merchandise sales and that's probably because no one wants 20 of the same Goku figure or to fight Raditz for the 10,000th time in a video game.

I find it funny that you mention that because that's exactly what happens in video games. Every single game that came out on PS2, PS3, and PS4 has that same Raditz fight over and over and over again. You can dress it up however you want -- make your own custom character, go back in time, yadda yadda -- you're still playing through the same fights over and over again years later. It's amazing how DB makes that money. I'm hoping that with Super, they'll stray away from that formula and maybe do a Super game where you play through its story for a change. Of course, have the classic DB/Z/GT(if you want) characters, but it would be so refreshing to not go through that damned Raditz fight again lol

[lancerman]

You have to wait. Most of the issues with GT are actual inconsistencies with the characters and are set in stone because it's over. Stupid things like Riildo being stronger than Boo and all the characters being depowered.

Super has some animation issues and power scaling issues that were explained away by "he trained for awhile".

I think ultimately though neither tarnished the image of the series.

If anything Z did that.

[lancerman]

Also I think ultimately Super contributed more to the franchise. GT contributed SSJ 4 and Omega Shenron and possibly Bebi as the only real enduring aspects.

Super has SSJG, SSJB, Beerus, Whis, Golden Freeza, Goku Black, Zen-Oh, the different universes, which were more developed than any of the planets the cast of GT visited, Frost, Hit, the U6 Saiyans and it better utilized the cast outside of Goku.

[sintzu]

What do you guys want out of Super then at this point ?

For it to be like the manga. The fights and writing are better, there aren't as many plot holes and the Zamasu arc isn't being rushed.

[Lord Beerus]

What do you guys want out of Super then at this point ?

For it to be like the manga. The fights and writing are better, there aren't as many plot holes and the Zamasu arc isn't being rushed.

That's very debatable. Some fights in the anime are better than the manga. And the writing, specifically in regards to power consistency, since characterization is something both the anime and manga fumble, the manga is more grounded than in the anime by comparison. But both mediums are guilty of taking liberties in that regard.

And what plot holes are your talking about?

[sintzu]

And what plot holes are your talking about?

The power levels. I'm not expecting them to be perfect cause they never were but there's a problem when Krillin and #17 are holding their own against a SsjB Goku.

[Boo Machine]

And what plot holes are your talking about?

The power levels. I'm not expecting them to be perfect cause they never were but there's a problem when Krillin and #17 are holding their own against a SsjB Goku.

I don't really feel thats what a plot hole is. Issues with power levels are mostly an inconsistency.

And Krillin and #17 "holding their own" against Blue Goku is only a problem you believe that goku wasn't holding back and that if characters like Krillin were to have a death match with Goku, both going at full power, that Krillin actually stands a chance at coming out on top and doesn't just become the universes shiniest smear across the planet.