Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

The manga version has made much more logical sense than the anime overall I guess but I definitely don't think it's been nearly as entertaining.

Merged Zamasu and particularly Trunks have been very underwhelming, the latter not really doing squat except for randomly healing Goku.

As mysterious as it is I'd gladly take Trunks becoming a Super Saiyan Rage if it meant he got to do something.

The Complete Super Saiyan Blue form is an interesting idea but it wouldn't really work for the anime anyway and I prefer the Kaioken. At least it looks different visually that way.

[Lord Beerus]

Notes:
- Freeza's been doing mental training in Hell, so his energy management in Golden mode isn't so shit anymore. (Thank Herms.)
- Golden Freeza and SSJB Goku spar. And in the clash they knock each other out.

[amuroray]

So Freeza's is equal to goku even though he literally couldnt move in hell SMFH.

What is going on in this series?

[Cetra]

I wonder if this Destruction energy is literally the power thaat goes into that Judgment attack from Beerus and Sidra or simply the destructive power of a God of Destruction without specifically meaning this special move.

[Bullza]

New episode. Was a real struggle to watch it this week with the streams messing about.

Looks like Golden Frieza and Super Saiyan Blue Goku are equal....I knew there'd be some bullshit but at least they were only equal and they did acknowledge Goku was stronger than before.

Why Golden Frieza is his equal? Who knows, he did some mental training whilst in a cocoon and fixed his stamina issue and must have got stronger.

He stopped Sidra's blast so they probably are getting up there with the God of Destructions now, makes sense if Goku has to beat someone stronger than Beerus soon.

Goku used his Saiyan Beyond God form sparring with Frieza? He was keeping up and upon transforming went Blue so it looked that way.

Beerus blew that energy away real easy whereas Golden Frieza had some trouble with it, dunno if that suggests a difference between the two but Beerus isn't nervous of him.

Did the preview show Beerus and Liquir fighting?

[Cursemark505]

So Freeza's is equal to goku even though he literally couldnt move in hell SMFH.

What is going on in this series?

Before you go berserk, you should remember that Freeza was stronger than Goku in the ROF arc. The only reason he started losing was because of stamina.

You should also remember that Mental training has been a thing in Dragon ball for ages.

[Lord Beerus]

I guess the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Golden Freeza in their fight during the Resurrection F arc was much bigger than we thought. That would explained why Goku got his ass handed to him as badly as he did in 90% of that fight. And since Freeza manged to over the stamina issue with his Golden Form though mental training in hell, this would mean he could fight at 100% much longer than he originally could.

This would also mean that the gains that Goku made as a SSJB since ROF weren't that big. Which just emphasizes that the training in the ROSAT before the Universe 6/7 Tournament was pointless. I think Goku has officially hit a wall in terms of strength. Or at the very least, he's maxed out the power he could get out of SSJB specifically. That would certainly also tie in and explain as to why he's more inclined stack Kaioken on top of SSJB in some fights. He can't get any stronger with SSJB by itself.

[amuroray]

So Freeza's is equal to goku even though he literally couldnt move in hell SMFH.

What is going on in this series?

Before you go berserk, you should remember that Freeza was stronger than Goku in the ROF arc. The only reason he started losing was because of stamina.

You should also remember that Mental training has been a thing in Dragon ball for ages.

Goku has gone under ridiculous training and battles since then Freeza mental training only fixed his stamina

[Cursemark505]

So Freeza's is equal to goku even though he literally couldnt move in hell SMFH.

What is going on in this series?

Before you go berserk, you should remember that Freeza was stronger than Goku in the ROF arc. The only reason he started losing was because of stamina.

You should also remember that Mental training has been a thing in Dragon ball for ages.

Goku has gone under ridiculous training and battles since then Freeza mental training only fixed his stamina

Wasn't it said before that Goku and Vegeta have already reached their peaks and they can't get that much stronger before?

I don't remember what episode it was in but I think this was stated in the Champa arc or around it.

I don't think Goku used Kaioken so Goku should still be stronger but then again steam cut off so idk.

[Lord Frieza]

It was clearly hinted in both the movie and the arc that Golden Frieza was holding back when fighting Goku, yet still held the edge in power and only lost due to his stamina.

However even I didn't think that Frieza was holding back this much! The entire U6 arc team would not be a match for him! Hell Black would have had trouble with him!

[Marlowe89]

That unfolded exactly as I predicted -- Frieza doesn't have a stamina problem with his Golden form anymore and Goku is now equal to him in Super Saiyan Blue whereas he was inferior in the RoF arc.

So Goku has made some gains since RoF but nothing as huge as any multiplication, which makes sense to me.

[Birusu16]

Power inconsistencies abound in this episode.

Freeza, with a good amount of effort, can shake off an attack from Sidra (not sure where people are getting that the attack was hakai as it looked nothing like it) yet Goku can't. But later on the two are straight up shown to be equal, so why was Goku unable to shake off the attack while Freeza could if they were equal?

Sidra just gets shit on in terms of power-scaling and portrayal. Freeza of all people shakes off his attack and then Beerus comes along and effortlessly blows on it and destroys it.

Freeza has somehow been able to keep up with Goku despite being in a cocoon in hell the whole time.

Just another shit-tier power-scaling episode in DBS.

[Bullza]

I guess the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Golden Freeza in their fight during the Resurrection F arc was much bigger than we thought. That would explained why Goku got his ass handed to him as badly as he did in 90% of that fight. And since Freeza manged to over the stamina issue with his Golden Form though mental training in hell, this would mean he could fight at 100% much longer than he originally could.

This would also mean that the gains that Goku made as a SSJB since ROF weren't that big. Which just emphasizes that the training in the ROSAT before the Universe 6/7 Tournament was pointless. I think Goku has officially hit a wall in terms of strength. Or at the very least, he's maxed out the power he could get out of SSJB specifically. That would certainly also tie in and explain as to why he's more inclined stack Kaioken on top of SSJB in some fights. He can't get any stronger with SSJB by itself.

That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense though. When they both fought each other at full power in the Resurrection F saga even though Golden Frieza got the upper hand he wasn't ridiculously more powerful than him or anything.

Since then they trained in the Rosat for 3 years and noted their improvement. SSJR Black beat the tar out of Goku and Vegeta. Black then powered up a chunk before Vegeta came back and put a real beat down on Black and he wasn't even using his full power from the looks of it.

So Golden Frieza was stronger than Black the whole time? That doesn't seem like it should be true. Unless Golden Frieza's Full Power was in reality a fraction of his actual true Full Power then it doesn't make much sense.

[IKevinX]

It's not the first time that "fixing stamina issues" rendered a power increase, dating back since the Cell saga and recently with the DBS Manga aswell.

If nothing I found it weird Goku didn't use Blue until later. Goes to show it's inconsistent, with him Going blue and kaioken in previous matches but against Frieza... someone who actually wants to kill him, he doesn't transform right away.

And Sidra seems to be very weak. At first Beerus sneezes a ki blast and now he literally blew on another God of destruction. So Sidra seems to be the weakest, to match his universe

[Marlowe89]

Since then they trained in the Rosat for 3 years and noted their improvement. SSJR Black beat the tar out of Goku and Vegeta. Black then powered up a chunk before Vegeta came back and put a real beat down on Black and he wasn't even using his full power from the looks of it.

That could just mean that the gap between Black and Goku/Vegeta wasn't as large as some people believed though. I don't really see how Black needs to be literally multiple times stronger to have a decisive advantage against Goku and Vegeta, and the same goes for Vegeta's improvement in the RoSaT.

[Lord Frieza]

Frieza is not stronger then Black, Goku was not at least as SSB with no KK. The only character Goku officially stronger then right now is Hit.

So its Hit < Golden Frieza < SSR Goku Black in terms of power scaling.

[TheSaiyanGod]

To say that Freeza is on the same level as the current Goku is to say that the emperor is stronger than Black.
After all, Goku got stronger since the end of the Mirai Trunks bow (it was about 1 year)

Freeza only overcame the weakness of the Golden form. And to be able to fight maximum power does not mean that he is able to defeat Goku, because in the RoF bow himself, Freez was reportedly using his full power and yet Goku was able to keep up a fight with him

[Doctor.]

So Freeza's potentially the second strongest on the team. Maybe third depending on how powerful #17 is revealed to be.

Damn, Vegeta's place on the power pole took a nosedive.

[Lord Beerus]

I guess the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Golden Freeza in their fight during the Resurrection F arc was much bigger than we thought. That would explained why Goku got his ass handed to him as badly as he did in 90% of that fight. And since Freeza manged to over the stamina issue with his Golden Form though mental training in hell, this would mean he could fight at 100% much longer than he originally could.

This would also mean that the gains that Goku made as a SSJB since ROF weren't that big. Which just emphasizes that the training in the ROSAT before the Universe 6/7 Tournament was pointless. I think Goku has officially hit a wall in terms of strength. Or at the very least, he's maxed out the power he could get out of SSJB specifically. That would certainly also tie in and explain as to why he's more inclined stack Kaioken on top of SSJB in some fights. He can't get any stronger with SSJB by itself.

That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense though. When they both fought each other at full power in the Resurrection F saga even though Golden Frieza got the upper hand he wasn't ridiculously more powerful than him or anything.

Since then they trained in the Rosat for 3 years and noted their improvement. SSJR Black beat the tar out of Goku and Vegeta. Black then powered up a chunk before Vegeta came back and put a real beat down on Black and he wasn't even using his full power from the looks of it.

So Golden Frieza was stronger than Black the whole time? That doesn't seem like it should be true. Unless Golden Frieza's Full Power was in reality a fraction of his actual true Full Power then it doesn't make much sense.

Golden Freeza was smacking around SSJB Goku pretty badly in their fight in Resurrection F arc. Golden Freeza had the upper hand for 90% of that fight. If not his stamina issues, Golden Freeza most likely would have won if the fight went the distance. At the very least this shows there was a decent big gap between Full Power Golden Freeza and Full Power SSJB Goku at the time and Goku has managed to close that gap. But Freeza is still nowhere near Black as even SSJB Goku is still weaker than him. Hell, Golden Freeza is still below Hit.

[Bullza]

That could just mean that the gap between Black and Goku/Vegeta wasn't as large as some people believed though. I don't really see how Black needs to be literally multiple times stronger to have a decisive advantage against Goku and Vegeta, and the same goes for Vegeta's improvement in the RoSaT.

Yeah but it's also the training they did after Frieza, the training for 3 years, apparently more training to the point Goku noted Vegeta was stronger just days after the Tournament. It's been around a year since the fights with Black so that's more training.

Merged Zamasu was said to have the strongest Ki they'd ever sensed which should put him above SSJB Goku Kaioken x10. Goku was not that far off from Zamasu. He was at least half as strong as him.

So its Hit < Golden Frieza < SSR Goku Black in terms of power scaling.

Goku put up too good a fight against Merged Zamasu for him to be inferior to Black.

Actually I'd say Black was probably the weakest of the three now. Hit was slightly weaker than Goku. Frieza is as strong as Goku.

Hit would probably beat Frieza though even if he is weaker.