The names of Toei's different animation substudios

[jjgp1112]

Worst drawing of Vegeta... EVER!

I remember I first saw that when watching the Season 2 set, and all I thought was, what the fuck? He looks horrible, and he's not even that height.

[kenisu3000]

[...] and I know of at least one [substudio] that shows up only in GT.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the combined animation studio of (refers to initial post) Last House and Studio Live.

Hmmm, I don't know which it is, but there's one episode where Goku is fighting Freeza and Cell in Hell (hey, that rhymes!), and I'm going by memory here, but I seem to remember both of the villains looking completely out-there weird.

Sorry to broaden the topic a bit, but I'm guessing this means that the animators aren't listed in FUNi's end credits? Also, are we absolutely sure that there were only five animators?

Apparently the animators aren't listed in FUNi's credits. Well, I only checked one episode to be sure, but it only gave credits to FUNimation's staff and voice actors, and devoted only one page to the Japanese version, focusing only on music and sounds, original author... you know, that stuff. Nothing on the animators. And oddly, they credit someone named "Chiho Kikuchi" as the music composer. Apparently they misread the Kanji (it's supposed to be "Shunsuke Kikuchi")!
Anyway, there's a difference between genga artists and animators. I don't know everything about the field (you'd think I would, seeing how old I am and the fact that I want more than anything to become an animator), but I imagine since genga means "original picture", it's they who draw the initial line art, and then they turn it over to the animators (who are credited right next to the genga artists in the ending film), who tend to have plenty of staff. What I don't understand is, what does an animator do that a genga artist doesn't? I thought the gengas were supposed to do all of the drawings (thereby making them animators), so why are they two separate studios?

Turnip Picture Hut (I feel ridiculous typing this)

Yeah, I know it sounds ridiculous. That's why we tend to call Japanese companies by their Japanese names (a'la Toei) rather than the translation of their name (a'la Eastern Films). The problem is, I don't know the proper pronunciation, so I'd feel even more silly saying "Seigasha" if that's the incorrect reading... just like "Chiho Kikuchi"!
On a (hopefully amusing) side note, I used to refer to Turnip as the Fangirl style, because somehow it reminds me of the art of a friend of mine.

This is Vegeta Bear!

This is me laughing until the day I croak.

[Mr. Announcer]

Not that I know that much about it either but I believe the genga would refer to the animator that draws the main action scenes and the rest of the animation staff would have to be in-betweeners (sp?) who draw the many frames in between those main action frames in order to create the full movement. Therefore, if you have a smaller staff, the animation probably isn't as smooth, and if you have a crappy genga, you get crappy overall styling.

[Humpski]

Not that I know that much about it either but I believe the genga would refer to the animator that draws the main action scenes and the rest of the animation staff would have to be in-betweeners (sp?) who draw the many frames in between those main action frames in order to create the full movement. Therefore, if you have a smaller staff, the animation probably isn't as smooth, and if you have a crappy genga, you get crappy overall styling.

Genga = Key Animator?

[Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece]

*Image Snip*

Worst drawing of Vegeta... EVER!

It looks like a Lupin the Third animator drew it.

[bkev]

*Image Snip*

Worst drawing of Vegeta... EVER!

It looks like a Lupin the Third animator drew it.

Tullece, THANK YOU! I've always thought he looked vaguely familiar to another anime character, and now I got it.

[kenisu3000]

Not that I know that much about it either but I believe the genga would refer to the animator that draws the main action scenes and the rest of the animation staff would have to be in-betweeners (sp?) who draw the many frames in between those main action frames in order to create the full movement. Therefore, if you have a smaller staff, the animation probably isn't as smooth, and if you have a crappy genga, you get crappy overall styling.

Key artists who illustrate the key frames... that would make sense! It would explain why the animators draw the inbetweeners at funny angles- it might not even be their fault, it might be so that the artwork matches the "bookend" frames that they're working from and up to. I really need to get off my duff and get into the animation industry so I know what I'm talking about...

BTW Mr. Announcer, I envy your fanart abilities like a mad thing.

[Humpski]

Not that I know that much about it either but I believe the genga would refer to the animator that draws the main action scenes and the rest of the animation staff would have to be in-betweeners (sp?) who draw the many frames in between those main action frames in order to create the full movement. Therefore, if you have a smaller staff, the animation probably isn't as smooth, and if you have a crappy genga, you get crappy overall styling.

Key artists who illustrate the key frames... that would make sense! It would explain why the animators draw the inbetweeners at funny angles- it might not even be their fault, it might be so that the artwork matches the "bookend" frames that they're working from and up to. I really need to get off my duff and get into the animation industry so I know what I'm talking about...

BTW Mr. Announcer, I envy your fanart abilities like a mad thing.

If you've got any questions on how animation works ask away.
I graduated from animation college and worked in the industry for a while.

You're right about the inbetweeners, they have to match the key frames they are given. If the actual art style of the animation is crap, it's the key animator's fault. If the way it moves is crap, it's both the fault of the key animators and the in-betweeners.

[kenisu3000]

If you've got any questions on how animation works ask away.
I graduated from animation college and worked in the industry for a while.

You're right about the inbetweeners, they have to match the key frames they are given. If the actual art style of the animation is crap, it's the key animator's fault. If the way it moves is crap, it's both the fault of the key animators and the in-betweeners.

Wow! Really? Animation is the industry I've ached to get into since I could speak! It's just that I don't know how or where to start. Where do I go for animation school, etc.? I've looked them up and there doesn't seem to be very many nowadays which focus on hand-drawn animation (curse you, Pixar...).

[Humpski]

If you've got any questions on how animation works ask away.
I graduated from animation college and worked in the industry for a while.

You're right about the inbetweeners, they have to match the key frames they are given. If the actual art style of the animation is crap, it's the key animator's fault. If the way it moves is crap, it's both the fault of the key animators and the in-betweeners.

Wow! Really? Animation is the industry I've ached to get into since I could speak! It's just that I don't know how or where to start. Where do I go for animation school, etc.? I've looked them up and there doesn't seem to be very many nowadays which focus on hand-drawn animation (curse you, Pixar...).

Yeah I know what you mean about not being able to find much in the way of traditional animation. I went to school at NBCC Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada. My teacher used to work at Disney Canada until they closed it down due to all those 3D movies taking over.

Anyways, yeah we learned traditional 2D animation, Flash and 3D. I hated 3D so I decided to focus on traditional in my final year. After I graduated I looked for work but all that was available was Flash jobs. I tried one out and learned that I don't like it very much. Even though it wasn't 3D, I was still at a computer. I just liked the feel of paper and a pencil... but I guess I'd have to move to Korea or something and get paid peanuts if I really wanted to work with that medium.

The animation industry itself is very shaky. Myself, I don't think I'd be able to handle it. It's all contract work and you have to constantly switch jobs and move to different cities to find work. There's no medical benefits or pension plans. I'm a guy who likes stability, so sadly... I've become pretty disillusioned with animation. Now if you're the adventurous type and don't mind being rich one minute, poor the next and packing up and moving all over the place, then I say you should go for it.

Sorry for the long off topic post!


*EDIT*
Oh, if you're interested here's a really old and crappy demo reel of mine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVrB0Amqdxc
Most of the better stuff is past the half way mark. Still, it's all crap in my opinion.

[kenisu3000]

Yeah I know what you mean about not being able to find much in the way of traditional animation. I went to school at NBCC Miramichi, New Brunswick, Canada. My teacher used to work at Disney Canada until they closed it down due to all those 3D movies taking over.

Anyways, yeah we learned traditional 2D animation, Flash and 3D. I hated 3D so I decided to focus on traditional in my final year. After I graduated I looked for work but all that was available was Flash jobs. I tried one out and learned that I don't like it very much. Even though it wasn't 3D, I was still at a computer. I just liked the feel of paper and a pencil... but I guess I'd have to move to Korea or something and get paid peanuts if I really wanted to work with that medium.

The animation industry itself is very shaky. Myself, I don't think I'd be able to handle it. It's all contract work and you have to constantly switch jobs and move to different cities to find work. There's no medical benefits or pension plans. I'm a guy who likes stability, so sadly... I've become pretty disillusioned with animation. Now if you're the adventurous type and don't mind being rich one minute, poor the next and packing up and moving all over the place, then I say you should go for it.

Sorry for the long off topic post!

I certainly would welcome the constant change... to an extent. I think the hardest thing for me to get past would be having to draw what other people tell me to. Mainly what makes me want to animate is so that I can portray the stories and emotions I've wanted to for so long, so I'm wondering if maybe an animation *director* or something like that is what I should be aiming for. Of course, I'd have to pay a ton of hellish dues along the way, but whatever it takes to get there!

As for being off-topic, maybe we should start up a PM conversation instead.

*EDIT*
Oh, if you're interested here's a really old and crappy demo reel of mine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVrB0Amqdxc
Most of the better stuff is past the half way mark. Still, it's all crap in my opinion.

Heee~sh! That is *highly* impressive stuff! I'd kill to be able to draw like that. Were you that good before you got into school, or was the education such a drastic improvement that you were able to produce that?

Tell me something. Here's a comic book I'm working on right now, but I only draw comics because I can't animate them. Would you say I have any chance in animation school? (PM me.)

[Peabo]

I suggested this topic in the podcast way back in episode 8! So glad to see it in a forum thread The information you put together was really interesting and fun to read.

[MajinVejitaXV]

*EDIT*
Oh, if you're interested here's a really old and crappy demo reel of mine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVrB0Amqdxc
Most of the better stuff is past the half way mark. Still, it's all crap in my opinion.

Very nice, I especially liked the one of the character speaking near the end. The actual facial detail and fluidity of motion was impressive.

And, of course, Tomahawk gets points in my book

-Corey
Who needs to get further in "The Darkness" to hear Mike Patton's VA work.

[Kirbopher]

Oh, if you're interested here's a really old and crappy demo reel of mine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVrB0Amqdxc
Most of the better stuff is past the half way mark. Still, it's all crap in my opinion.

From one animator to another, not a bad job at all!

[jjgp1112]

The evil eye type is good. They just look weird. Studio Cockpit is amazing, though.

[kuchi]

It seems to me that in most episodes done by K Production/Kino Production/Studio Carpenter/Seigasha there often appears a second style, though (thankfully) usually for not as long as the predominant, "better" style:



I guess it's safe to say they're from the same studio, but there is a fairly distinct difference between the styles. Does anyone have any info on this?

[Humpski]

*EDIT*
Oh, if you're interested here's a really old and crappy demo reel of mine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVrB0Amqdxc
Most of the better stuff is past the half way mark. Still, it's all crap in my opinion.

Very nice, I especially liked the one of the character speaking near the end. The actual facial detail and fluidity of motion was impressive.

And, of course, Tomahawk gets points in my book

-Corey
Who needs to get further in "The Darkness" to hear Mike Patton's VA work.

Thanks a bunch!
I'm really glad you could find something good about it. Cuz I sure can't. Haha. Oh yeah, and Tomahawk is awesome, that's for sure.

Thanks to you as well Kirbopher, are you in the industry?

[kenisu3000]

It seems to me that in most episodes done by K Production/Kino Production/Studio Carpenter/Seigasha there often appears a second style, though (thankfully) usually for not as long as the predominant, "better" style:

(*image snip*)

I guess it's safe to say they're from the same studio, but there is a fairly distinct difference between the styles. Does anyone have any info on this?

Actually, I don't know for sure, but the stuff on the left looks like it comes from Last House, and the stuff on the right looks like it's from one of the top studios, like K Production or Kino Production. Heck, that pic on the bottom left... if it weren't for the fact that the guy on the far right looks believable, I'd say it came from Studio "Triangle Crap" Live. I mean, just look at all the other spectators and how flat their faces are!
However, it might have come from Studio Live after all, seeing as how even the Triangle Crapsters have their scarce moments of decency.

[kuchi]

It seems to me that in most episodes done by K Production/Kino Production/Studio Carpenter/Seigasha there often appears a second style, though (thankfully) usually for not as long as the predominant, "better" style:

(*image snip*)

I guess it's safe to say they're from the same studio, but there is a fairly distinct difference between the styles. Does anyone have any info on this?

Actually, I don't know for sure, but the stuff on the left looks like it comes from Last House, and the stuff on the right looks like it's from one of the top studios, like K Production or Kino Production. Heck, that pic on the bottom left... if it weren't for the fact that the guy on the far right looks believable, I'd say it came from Studio "Triangle Crap" Live. I mean, just look at all the other spectators and how flat their faces are!
However, it might have come from Studio Live after all, seeing as how even the Triangle Crapsters have their scarce moments of decency.

True, but unlike the other styles these two often appear together during the course of a single episode. While the style on the left is obviously poorly-done, I personally don't see it corresponding to the styles of any of the other studios; it seems too round to be from either Studio Live or Last House.

I took these screencaps from the episodes themselves, so unless someone did some tricky editing on the versions I have, I believe it's safe to say that each horizontal pair is from the same episode.

[kuchi]

Another instance of this "two-styles in one episode" appears with some of the Studio Live stuff as well. These two caps are from the same episode:



I haven't noticed this from any of the other studios besides this and the aforementioned one.