Dragon Box Sound Quality: My Conclusion

[superrayman3]

Except I used my brief responses to your points as a jumping off point to make a larger point, with one big part of that being that neither of your points actually matter because of the larger point I was making.

So how about, rather than debating the fine points of which parts of my post were directly addressing you, we actually discuss the main point I brought up?

Could you please be more specific with these "points" so that other members can respond to them accordingly, because you always respond with "can we discuss my points" and it doesn't really get us anywhere.

[tellyzbad1]

Except I used my brief responses to your points as a jumping off point to make a larger point, with one big part of that being that neither of your points actually matter because of the larger point I was making.

So how about, rather than debating the fine points of which parts of my post were directly addressing you, we actually discuss the main point I brought up?

Could you please be more specific with these "points" so that other members can respond to them accordingly, because you always respond with "can we discuss my points" and it doesn't really get us anywhere.

Agreed.

[Robo4900]

Anyway, why is everyone getting so negative about all this? We don't know what Funimation are going to do. One minute, they're all about presenting the show in 4:3 with grain, the next they're saying it's cropped and filtered to remove all character of the original film. And while this is going on, they have Kai. And then you have the Ultimate Uncut DVDs, where they were saying they're going back and righting the wrongs of the old dub... By using the same scripts, but with a worse soundtrack, and worse actors.

Point is, Funimation are pretty schizophrenic. One thing we can be sure of is that they want money. And re-releasing DBZ every time they have an excuse to makes them money. So you can bet your bottom dollar that the moment it makes sense to re-release DBZ they'll do it, and they'll throw in the broadcast audio because sub fans will want it, and it'll make them more money, and provide an incentive for such people to buy a non-DBox release.

But as I say, this will happen when Funimation have a reason to release DBZ. Right now, they're at market saturation, so a DBZ release isn't likely for a while.
But when it happens, mark my words, they'll use the broadcast audio.

[tellyzbad1]

Robo4900, what could I have possibly replied to that with? "No, you are wrong! They won't use broadcast audio!", or "Yes, you are right, they will certainly use broadcast audio!"?? Come on, don't request such pathetic conversation.

My presence in this thread hasn't at all revolved around discussing whether or not they use it. I have been discussing what processes they could do to supposedly "remaster" the broadcast audio in their possession. So, I don't see why you're vehemently suggesting I'd ought to have replied to that point of yours. If someone else wants to, they can. But, don't be so absurd and pretentious, thinking that everyone has to reply to your point that has nothing to do with the topic that came directly prior to yours...

And it's ironic how you complain about people not replying to your point(s), given how you've totally failed to respond at all to what I said regarding the tapemarks and buzz-removal from the spectrogram. Nice one, bro!

edit: I only caught now your previous post essentially saying "my point is more important than your topic. reply to my point only."

Except I used my brief responses to your points as a jumping off point to make a larger point, with one big part of that being that neither of your points actually matter because of the larger point I was making.

So how about, rather than debating the fine points of which parts of my post were directly addressing you, we actually discuss the main point I brought up?

lol, wow... I could endlessly provide you with reasons for why you're false, there. But, surely you don't expect me to take you seriously there...do you? Hopefully this pretentiousness is part of some kind of joke-gimmick, and not how you actually behave here...

[VegettoEX]

Knock it off, all, please and thank you.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Can you even imagine trying to remaster 291 episodes of broadcast audio? I can. Each episodes would take roughly 3-6 hours +/- to finish (if done properly). You'll need some of the best equipment around, as well as someone who's extremely knowledgeable to make it worth while. Companies who specialize in this kind of work will charge you $295,000 or more, and wouldn't do that good of a job. This task is tedious and very boring, so I recommend you find someone who has a lot of experience in this field or else you'll be forced to accept the inevitable.

Don't think for a single second that FUNi will spend this kind of time and money making it perfect, because they won't. From a business perspective, the amount of work required for such a thing wouldn't equate in sales - If you don’t have product market fit, you don’t have a business. Even if this were somehow possible, FUNi would need to get approval from Toei (which is highly unlikely).

As I've previously mentioned, there's simply no market for it. I'm not sure people realize just how difficult remastering 30 minutes of audio can be, let alone 291 episodes. It's not some simple EQ "here and there", remove strange noises "with one click" etc. This is a job for someone who's extremely knowledgeable and has tons of experience. I can relate to this because the fuji tier audio in my possession is currently being remastered, which is taking roughly 4+ hours per episode, and that's a lot of work!

But to think that FUNi will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars remastering the tokai audio and the footage is not being realistic. They're not going to make things perfect because FUNi is a business, and most business' look for shortcuts (which is no surprise to me seeing how they've treated their releases thus far, e.g., the Orange Bricks).

yeah that makes a lot of sense and i agree 100% but i'm probably going to stick with the blu rays.. i doubt funi will ever release dbz in 4:3 with broadcast audio, unless you or someone else remasters this "perfectly" as you say, as fan project, but the audio collectively is still not that great since it require a lot of work and timing and is no use to me because of that. someone mentioned early that maybe if funi releases this as "fan service" but that wont make any difference since fanbase is so tiny, and people like us who care about audio are even tinier .

[tellyzbad1]

And let's not forget much of the American fans hate the Japanese voices, regardless of quality. So, FUNimation wouldn't be able to target and engage them with the concept of "high quality japanese audio"

[Jinzoningen MULE]

And let's not forget much of the American fans hate the Japanese voices, regardless of quality. So, FUNimation wouldn't be able to target and engage them with the concept of "high quality japanese audio"

I'm as cynical as anyone else here, but you have to remember that the Dragon Boxes were also a thing that virtually none of the dub fans cared about. A limited release, but it happened nonetheless, and judging by how many there seem to be still out there, it's safe to assume that demand was higher than you would've expected. It could be a similar case here, where there's a silent, untapped market, though I wouldn't hinge any bets on it. It's hard to gauge when so many are still unaware, and many who do know will be hesitant to talk about it now.

[AnimeMaakuo]

And let's not forget much of the American fans hate the Japanese voices, regardless of quality. So, FUNimation wouldn't be able to target and engage them with the concept of "high quality japanese audio"

I'm as cynical as anyone else here, but you have to remember that the Dragon Boxes were also a thing that virtually none of the dub fans cared about. A limited release, but it happened nonetheless, and judging by how many there seem to be still out there, it's safe to assume that demand was higher than you would've expected. It could be a similar case here, where there's a silent, untapped market, though I wouldn't hinge any bets on it. It's hard to gauge when so many are still unaware, and many who do know will be hesitant to talk about it now.

I've thought about this a time or two, but eventually came to the conclusion that based on how the level sets performed, there wouldn't be a large enough market to sustain the cost of production.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

And let's not forget much of the American fans hate the Japanese voices, regardless of quality. So, FUNimation wouldn't be able to target and engage them with the concept of "high quality japanese audio"

I'm as cynical as anyone else here, but you have to remember that the Dragon Boxes were also a thing that virtually none of the dub fans cared about. A limited release, but it happened nonetheless, and judging by how many there seem to be still out there, it's safe to assume that demand was higher than you would've expected. It could be a similar case here, where there's a silent, untapped market, though I wouldn't hinge any bets on it. It's hard to gauge when so many are still unaware, and many who do know will be hesitant to talk about it now.

I've thought about this a time or two, but eventually came to the conclusion that based on how the level sets performed, there wouldn't be a large enough market to sustain the cost of production.

It's entirely plausible, but when you look at the context in which the Level Sets were produced, a valid hypothesis is that they couldn't sustain production because the Levels weren't selling well due to an oversaturated market. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's more likely, since the project never even would have begun if there wasn't reasonable expectation of completion at the start. If the broadcast audio were remastered and released tomorrow, it would probably suffer a similar fate, since the current release is doing well from what I can see, and because Super will take priority for most active fans. I think the ideal time to put effort, money, and hours into this would be once Super either declines or ends. After that, drumming up hype for "the original sagas", or whatever you'd call it, would be simple enough assuming the series still has fans, and that would be an opportunity to introduce "The original Japanese audio remastered(!) LIKE YOU'VE NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE!!!FUU"

At least that's what I imagine as the best case scenario. Like I said before though, I wouldn't place any bets on it.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I'm as cynical as anyone else here, but you have to remember that the Dragon Boxes were also a thing that virtually none of the dub fans cared about. A limited release, but it happened nonetheless, and judging by how many there seem to be still out there, it's safe to assume that demand was higher than you would've expected. It could be a similar case here, where there's a silent, untapped market, though I wouldn't hinge any bets on it. It's hard to gauge when so many are still unaware, and many who do know will be hesitant to talk about it now.

I've thought about this a time or two, but eventually came to the conclusion that based on how the level sets performed, there wouldn't be a large enough market to sustain the cost of production.

It's entirely plausible, but when you look at the context in which the Level Sets were produced, a valid hypothesis is that they couldn't sustain production because the Levels weren't selling well due to an oversaturated market. In fact, I'd go so far to say it's more likely, since the project never even would have begun if there wasn't reasonable expectation of completion at the start. If the broadcast audio were remastered and released tomorrow, it would probably suffer a similar fate, since the current release is doing well from what I can see, and because Super will take priority for most active fans. I think the ideal time to put effort, money, and hours into this would be once Super either declines or ends. After that, drumming up hype for "the original sagas", or whatever you'd call it, would be simple enough assuming the series still has fans, and that would be an opportunity to introduce "The original Japanese audio remastered(!) LIKE YOU'VE NEVER HEARD IT BEFORE!!!FUU"

At least that's what I imagine as the best case scenario. Like I said before though, I wouldn't place any bets on it.

yes but there are many reasons why it didnt sell well.. over saturation being one of them, you still have to think about remastering process and not only color correct.. it wouldnt be that great and I'm sure will never happen. they already have dbz on blu ray. why release it again and confuse more average fans? I'm not interested and wouldnt support it. too much dbz.

[tellyzbad1]

Well, to be honest, I don't even want FUNimation to bother doing another release with or without this audio they now have.

It appears fans are slightly more able to communicate with FUNi than we can with Toei. So in my ideal world, us fans would somehow be able to convince FUNi to try and request Toei to do a 4:3 Blu-ray release that uses the broadcast audio. Hugely unlikely to ever happen, I know. But, if we're going to talk about ideals, this is mine.

Assuming Toei doesn't mess up like on Kai TFC, their video will be superior than anything FUNi can do with their film masters. And who knows, maybe if FUNi are somehow able to raise Toei's interest into what broadcast audio is, it can make it easier for somoene like Kei17 to finally give them the better audio. I'm not totally sure about this, but it's possible Toei disregarded kei17's broadcast audio offerrings without even acknowledging how much better it is than the optical audio, just because he was a "fan" and not part of any recognised body. So it would be great to see what Toei say to FUNimation if FUNi are the ones proposing Toei use/seek out broadcast audio.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Well, to be honest, I don't even want FUNimation to bother doing another release with or without this audio they now have.

It appears fans are slightly more able to communicate with FUNi than we can with Toei. So in my ideal world, us fans would somehow be able to convince FUNi to try and request Toei to do a 4:3 Blu-ray release that uses the broadcast audio. Hugely unlikely to ever happen, I know. But, if we're going to talk about ideals, this is mine.

Assuming Toei doesn't mess up like on Kai TFC, their video will be superior than anything FUNi can do with their film masters. And who knows, maybe if FUNi are somehow able to raise Toei's interest into what broadcast audio is, it can make it easier for somoene like Kei17 to finally give them the better audio. I'm not totally sure about this, but it's possible Toei disregarded kei17's broadcast audio offerrings without even acknowledging how much better it is than the optical audio, just because he was a "fan" and not part of any recognised body. So it would be great to see what Toei say to FUNimation if FUNi are the ones proposing Toei use/seek out broadcast audio.

yeah but kei already asked toei about the situation and they turned him down as they were aware of fans possessing better sounding tapes but had no interest in them. I think he wrote about it somewhere on the forums, but kei is not the only person to have better audio recordings. I still doubt Toei will do anything. they did a crappy job with Kai.