Is Super Goku REALLY all that dumb in comparison to Z Goku?

[Master Xar]

Yes, the difference between his characterization, especially when it comes to interactions with other characters and his overall stance in the plot is pretty noticeable.
Even though forgetting objects and such is an extension of the issue, you only need to look at his behaviour in almost every episode. The funny faces, the comments and reactions... Are all a simplification of Toriyama's character, reducing him to just an idiot except to when he's fighting.

Bad/controversial choices like giving Cell a Senzu or not defeating Buu are completely different than forgetting something or mistaking a seal. They're different than asking to start a tournament to send millions of people to their death, too. (This I think that will be adressed in the future, but no matter how it turns out it hasn't been handled well at all).

What "facial expressions/reactions" are you talking about, Toriyama has gone on record to say he made Goku to be the most plain-faced main character he can think of, he is supposed to be the simplest of the simple, he's gone on record to say he hated the way Toei portrayed Z Goku.

Those choices with Buu and Cell whether out of pride/honor or worrying about the future were still stupid in the context of the situation if not worse, you could even argue Goku giving him the Senzu Bean was a complete plot device in and of itself, they aren't "different" by any means, they were literally Goku's most retarded decisions imaginable. Having tunnel vision and forgetting an item is more forgivable than knowing a situation ahead of time. Forgetting to fix said situation that you were WARNED of. And paying the price (forgetting to take the Medicine for the Heart Virus).

What's with all the "it's different" and double standards to skip out Z Goku when he did something equally as stupid.

Goku did not send millions to their deaths dude... Vados even said that Goku bailed out a universe because ZENO WAS ALREADY PLANNING ON IT

Is it because he is less goofy than Super Goku and more serious? Is it because he is their Goku from their childhood? Is it something deeper than that?

[Lord Beerus]

*ignore this*

[LightBing]

Wait, Goku forgot to take the heart medicine? Didn't the disease kick in much later than in Trunks timeline, meaning taking the pills sooner would be redundant. I'm pretty sure I'm not miss-remembering this.

[Lord Beerus]

Wait, Goku forgot to take the heart medicine? Didn't the disease kick in much later than in Trunks timeline, meaning taking the pills sooner would be redundant. I'm pretty sure I'm not miss-remembering this.

You're right. I just double checked and I mis-remembered. Gohan says that Goku never took the medicine becuase the disease didn't surface so he didn't need to drink. It was still a stupid move on his part for him not take the heart medicine at any point before going to fight the Androids. Becuase succumbing to the heart virus was going to happen at some point in three years.

[Asura]

If people are saying something so much that it catches on and becomes a popular topic, there must be a reason for it.

Goku in Super is as dumb and goofy as a pile of bricks. Just absolutely braindead and annoying at times. So braindead that he can't even tell that he's fighting Beerus in a monaka costume, and not monaka himself. Thankfully he does seem to be a bit less goofy in this current arc, although there's still that issue of them writing him like a villain at the beginning... wonder if that'll ever get brought up again.

Yes, the difference between his characterization, especially when it comes to interactions with other characters and his overall stance in the plot is pretty noticeable.
Even though forgetting objects and such is an extension of the issue, you only need to look at his behaviour in almost every episode. The funny faces, the comments and reactions... Are all a simplification of Toriyama's character, reducing him to just an idiot except to when he's fighting.

Bad/controversial choices like giving Cell a Senzu or not defeating Buu are completely different than forgetting something or mistaking a seal. They're different than asking to start a tournament to send millions of people to their death, too. (This I think that will be adressed in the future, but no matter how it turns out it hasn't been handled well at all).

I agree with this, both parts. His behavior has changed, he's a lot goofier, which makes sense since there was finally a downtime of peace. But now that we're back to people trying to destroy timelines and the universe and all that, he's still goofy. He always has that stupid face where his eyes turn into upside down U's. He had this face in Z too, but it wasn't really used all that much. In Super for some reason that's his signature face, as if he's Naruto or Luffy or something. Just his overall behavior makes him look dumber. There's a reason why so many people are saying they notice a difference between Z Goku and Super Goku.

Bad decisions are not the same as pure stupidity either, that's a really good point. Goku was willingly choosing to do those bad decisions. In the case of Super he either forgets or is too dumb to comprehend the situation (Beerus in Monaka costume episode)

[LightBing]

Wait, Goku forgot to take the heart medicine? Didn't the disease kick in much later than in Trunks timeline, meaning taking the pills sooner would be redundant. I'm pretty sure I'm not miss-remembering this.

You're right. I just double checked and I mis-remembered. Gohan says that Goku never took the medicine becuase the disease didn't surface so he didn't need to drink. It was still a stupid move on his part for him not take the heart medicine at any point before going to fight the Androids. Becuase succumbing to the heart virus was going to happen at some point in three years.

I remember Trunks telling Goku to take the pills when he gets sick. They were pills, not a vaccine. There's nothing stupid about it.

[SaiyanGod117]

People have to stop complaining about he is a mix of Goku from Dragonball and Dragonball Z...I hate how people are so focused on Goku from Z and forget
how he was in Dragonball -.- that's typical in the dragonball community acting like they know everythink but knows shit

How is that any better, I see people bringing this up a lot, as if its a good counter-argument. Goku isn't some type of piece of technology or video game or newly introduced character. He's an already established character to a story and his character is post to grow.

On another side of the spectrum, I think people have a problem discerning stupid decisions, instead of stupid moments, as in displaying a lack of of intelligence; which he does a lot in Super.

[Cetra]

Super Goku isn't actually an idiot. He manages a farm, and doing so requires a certain amount of intelligence.

Ugh, no, he doesn't. A farm has animals. He works on one field, for a little while. Sure, he works a farmer, but doesn't manage a farm. And this comes from someone who's a farmer himself.

Do you have a shotgun a hat and a mustache?

[Hit!!]

Guys, the Beerus in Monaka costume stuff is filler.

[Ki Breaker]

Super Goku isn't actually an idiot. He manages a farm, and doing so requires a certain amount of intelligence.

Ugh, no, he doesn't. A farm has animals. He works on one field, for a little while. Sure, he works a farmer, but doesn't manage a farm. And this comes from someone who's a farmer himself.

Do you have a shotgun a hat and a mustache?

More importantly, have you survived an alien encounter?

[HeroR]

Guys, the Beerus in Monaka costume stuff is filler.

And your point? This isn't the Z days of 'it's not in the manga, so it's filler, so it doesn't count'.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Goku gave Cell a senzu because Cell was being a good sport in their match (by Goku's observation). "Sorry, didn't mean to blow off your entire upper torso a few minutes ago... ? You're not as bad a guy as I initially thought. Please accept this gift in the spirit of my respect for your ability that exceeds my own. And, by the way, I've measured your power and my son is going to stomp you out of existence if you want to go through with trying to destroy everything. Cool?"

Goku's logic cannot be applied to what we would've done in that situation. He can fly, instantly teleport acrossed the galaxy, and bring mountains down with ease. He had complete faith in Gohan.

I'll give the writers on Super an out and just say that Goku's been thoroughly desensitized after prolonged exposure to the afterlife and his encounter with Pure Boo and then meeting Beerus and Whis. Although, I have found it annoying with the excessive use of "cheery face". Goku doesn't need to be influenced by other popular shounen contemporaries for Shueisha/Toei to sell him to a younger audience.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

The character has declined. His traits are exaggerated at times. There's no denying that. In the first three arcs of DBS, Gokuu barely felt like Gokuu to me to be honest for the most part. Even in the Trunks arc, that exaggeration didn't go away(I'm looking at you episode #53). But credit were credit is due, it was much better than before.

I'd say Toriyama started all this with F. He was given good character moments and progression in KtK. An interesting side of Gokuu was brought to life, but Toriyama backpedaled in F. DBS has been stuck in that route and made little to no attempts of progressing the character. After the events of Majin Boo, the current Gokuu to me doesn't feel like a natural progression and I think that's what some people including myself have a problem with.

Toriyama and the anime staff in the original work balanced both sides of Gokuu's personality well for the most part, but Toriyama and the staff now are focusing more on the goofy side of the character's personality and have somewhat dropped that balance. Nozawa's happy and cheerful tone is indicative of the kind of approach they are going with for whatever(marketing most likely) purposes.

The current story is trying to change that, so that's a positive I guess. Gokuu is acting more like Gokuu. The staff is trying to actually do something interesting with him for the first time in the series. Even the voice tone has changed as was evident in episode #93. But, I'm not confident in DBS' execution and so I'm keeping expectations low. The light hearted tone of the current story makes me feel nothing good is going to come out of it. We'll see though.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

You brought up a good point about Nozawa that's crossed my mind from time to time. Super's portrayal of Goku being more fun, light-hearted, and cheery most of the time taking into consideration Nozawa's age... ? Less stress/exertion, more fun and enjoyable with her work?

Although, Super as a whole is waaaaay more light-hearted than the previous series'.

[Zagacious]

We'd have to go and list each cases of him acting questionably to really decide this, I think average DBS Goku is not any dumber, but definitely less serious and more careless than his DBZ version. However, I don't remember DBZ Goku's joking/naive nature ever ruining the seriousness of the episode the way the DBS one sometimes does.

Super Goku isn't actually an idiot. He manages a farm, and doing so requires a certain amount of intelligence.

He can use super strength / ki abilities to make farming way easier than it would be for the average human, so I think this needs to be factored in.

[FortuneSSJ]

Nah, too much drama like always. In DBS they highlight his goofy side more, but he's still serious when he needs to be. He's definitely not out of character.

Funnily enough, the current Universe Survival arc has the best portrayal of Son Goku's character ever to me.
In the first episodes during the Zen Exhibition Matches, Toriyama's Goku has came to the surface like never before and the proof is all the drama we had about he becoming "evil".

Some people got shocked when Goku was being called a villain by Toppo and he didn't mind that. I guess they are used to those cliché main characters.

He doesn't care if he's treated like the villain. He will never back down if he wants to fight. He puts his fun above everything else.
Goku fighting Super-Heroes like the Pride Troopers is a idea I Iove a lot because it makes Goku came out as the villain.

His conversation with C17 in episode 87 last scene also sums up perfectly what his character is all about:
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

If anyone still doesn't know how Son Goku's character is supposed to be, rewatch this arc over and over until you get it is my suggestion.

[ekrolo2]

Since the BoG movie, he's only worked in the current arc (although there are still major issues with him like the fact he's still way too lax with Freeza). In the previous arc, his character is like the popularity of the Fantastic Four: non-fucking-existant.

[GodKaio-Ken]

You mean, asking to start a tournament with no reason to suspect that it would get deadly.

I mean, messing with someone you've been told not to mess with because they're highly volatile and other-worldly powerful.
As I said, I think I know what's the plan with it or so I wanna believe, but even then I wouldn't agree with Goku's characterization in this arc.

You mean like when a certain powerful master that trained Goku warned him to avoid a certain space tyrant at all costs.

Or when everyone said dont mess with Beerus. How did that work out for Earth again?

[Simere]

I mean, messing with someone you've been told not to mess with because they're highly volatile and other-worldly powerful.
As I said, I think I know what's the plan with it or so I wanna believe, but even then I wouldn't agree with Goku's characterization in this arc.

You mean like when a certain powerful master that trained Goku warned him to avoid a certain space tyrant at all costs.

Or when everyone said dont mess with Beerus. How did that work out for Earth again?

Led to its salvation.

[Master Xar]

I mean, messing with someone you've been told not to mess with because they're highly volatile and other-worldly powerful.
As I said, I think I know what's the plan with it or so I wanna believe, but even then I wouldn't agree with Goku's characterization in this arc.

You mean like when a certain powerful master that trained Goku warned him to avoid a certain space tyrant at all costs.

Or when everyone said dont mess with Beerus. How did that work out for Earth again?

Or when he was warned about the Androids in general and instead of not going out to find him BEFORE the Androids are built.

See that's the point I'm making here. What is so much worse about Super Goku? He is more goofy to a degree yes, but one could argue that it's because he's in lot less serious situations nowadays or that he has a Trump Card up his sleeve, the only really dumb thing he's done is the whole Monaka costume thing, and that was just a comedy episode.

To quote from one of my favorite YouTubers: "What I'm doing is stupid, I know it's stupid... but I'm gonna do it anyway!"

It doesn't make it any better by ANY means, there is a THIN line between Dumb Decisions and Bad Decisions, it's literally little to no distinctions between them both, what's the big difference between a 3 year old eating paint chips and a 14 year old? Often cases knowing the shit you are doing is stupid and irresponsible only makes them even MORE dumb.