Is Super Goku REALLY all that dumb in comparison to Z Goku?

[dragon boss z]

People have to stop complaining about he is a mix of Goku from Dragonball and Dragonball Z...I hate how people are so focused on Goku from Z and forget
how he was in Dragonball -.- that's typical in the dragonball community acting like they know everythink but knows shit

Why would they focus on how he was in dragon ball? So basically what you are saying all his years of growth as a character mean nothing and instead of acting like how he was at the end of Z and growing from that he should start acting how he was in dragon ball when he was a kid?

[HeroR]

Like I said who gives a shit about the future when Buu is right there, worry about the future then in the future, he used the RoSaT with Gohan didn't worry about the future then did he?
The fact the Goku taught them the fusion technique was counter-intuitive to his next generation step up logic, he still was influencing the outcome. Just poor poor writing.
Does not matter who's fault it was more he was still responsible. Yet was his complete fault for falling for the fake truce ruse, utter idiocy. We all knew what Vegeta was gonna do yet Goku didn't.

Because as Vegeta told Trunks, you can't just focused on the current threat. You have to think of the future. He used the time chamber with Gohan because he was working a theory that one can surpassed Super Saiyan. It wasn't a sure thing and he needed time. Goku, however, was sure that the Fusion Dance was more than enough to beat Buu and the time chamber was a last resort if things go bad. I am also not seeing the "fusion technique was counter-intuitive to his next generation step up logic".

Why would Goku think Vegeta would hit him in the back? And "we all knew what Vegeta was gonna do yet". I didn't think Vegeta would do it when I first saw the Buu Saga. Sounds like you're talking with 20/20 hindsight here.

People have to stop complaining about he is a mix of Goku from Dragonball and Dragonball Z...I hate how people are so focused on Goku from Z and forget
how he was in Dragonball -.- that's typical in the dragonball community acting like they know everythink but knows shit

Why would they focus on how he was in dragon ball? So basically what you are saying all his years of growth as a character mean nothing and instead of acting like how he was at the end of Z and growing from that he should start acting how he was in dragon ball when he was a kid?

Goku had no real growth between Dragon Ball and Z other than his kill policy being revised. And Goku at the EOZ abandoned his family to train some kid he just met because he wanted a good fight.

[Kanassa]

And Goku at the EOZ abandoned his family to train some kid he just met because he wanted a good fight.

Well, with Instant Transmission handy he could easily visit... Then again, on second thought in those seven years dead he could have communicated with his family through King Kai, so...

[HeroR]

And Goku at the EOZ abandoned his family to train some kid he just met because he wanted a good fight.

Well, with Instant Transmission handy he could easily visit... Then again, on second thought in those seven years dead he could have communicated with his family through King Kai, so...

This is the same person who didn't see his friends in five years even with teleportation. Although to be fair, they didn't visit him either.

[SaiyanGod117]

Goku not knowing what that people kiss on the lips was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. He had two kids and knew enough to appeal to Elder Kai's perverted tendencies. But we're supposed to believe he still doesn't know that people kiss each other on the lips and that Chi-Chi never kissed him on the lips during their 8+ years of living together. Yeah, no. It's completely unbelievable.

Kiss isn't required for reproduction, it's highly likely both of them didn't know it's a thing..
It's not odd from their perspective if you think about it as well, why suck on each other's tongue if it's not required to get the job done?

I'm gonna be honest what you just typed was utterly nonsense and ridiculous.

[Ki Breaker]

Goku not knowing what that people kiss on the lips was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. He had two kids and knew enough to appeal to Elder Kai's perverted tendencies. But we're supposed to believe he still doesn't know that people kiss each other on the lips and that Chi-Chi never kissed him on the lips during their 8+ years of living together. Yeah, no. It's completely unbelievable.

Kiss isn't required for reproduction, it's highly likely both of them didn't know it's a thing..
It's not odd from their perspective if you think about it as well, why suck on each other's tongue if it's not required to get the job done?

I'm gonna be honest what you just typed was utterly stupid.

I understand why you might think that..
But Kissing isn't as popular as you think it is..
In western countries it's unthinkable to not know what it is, but it dosen't apply everywhere...
In todays age maybe it's not true because of the high exposure from media outlets, but there are still plenty who even if saw the concept of it on the air, don't even know how it's done..

All I am saying is its not terribly hard to understand why ChiChi or goku might have never heard of it, given the conditions they come from

[PeanutSaiyan]

Kiss isn't required for reproduction, it's highly likely both of them didn't know it's a thing..
It's not odd from their perspective if you think about it as well, why suck on each other's tongue if it's not required to get the job done?

I'm gonna be honest what you just typed was utterly stupid.

I understand why you might think that..
But Kissing isn't as popular as you think it is..
In western countries it's unthinkable to not know what it is, but it dosen't apply everywhere...
In todays age maybe it's not true because of the high exposure from media outlets, but there are still plenty who even if saw the concept of it on the air, don't even know how it's done..

All I am saying is its not terribly hard to understand why ChiChi or goku might have never heard of it, given the conditions they come from

this is the most nonensical, utterly ludicrous argument i've ever seen when trying to defend Super's writing. Should be held up as an example of the fanbase headcanoning the most nonsensical shit just to make sense of the show. just LOL

[Boo Machine]

I'm gonna be honest what you just typed was utterly stupid.

I understand why you might think that..
But Kissing isn't as popular as you think it is..
In western countries it's unthinkable to not know what it is, but it dosen't apply everywhere...
In todays age maybe it's not true because of the high exposure from media outlets, but there are still plenty who even if saw the concept of it on the air, don't even know how it's done..

All I am saying is its not terribly hard to understand why ChiChi or goku might have never heard of it, given the conditions they come from

this is the most nonensical, utterly ludicrous argument i've ever seen when trying to defend Super's writing. Should be held up as an example of the fanbase head shining the most nonsensical shit just to make sense of the show. just LOL

Would you care to actually explain why you feel this way? Ya know. To have a discussion about it.

That way you aren't just being snarky and walking away. It doesn't cost anything to show a little respect whether you think their arguments are silly or not.

[Lord Beerus]

In the Majin Boo arc, he's warned multiple times of what a threat Majin Boo is and how they should prevent him from being resurrected. But he still willingly contributes his resurrection, and when he has the opportunity the kill him he doesn't do it. Why is stupid? Because he could have prevented billions of peoples dying and chose not to under the pretense of "the kids should handle this". Which in the end they didn't.

Well first off, how did Goku "willingly" contribute to Buu's resurrection? He contributed to it, but certainly not willingly. Vegeta was threatening to kill everyone (and already did kill a lot of innocent people) unless Goku fought him. Goku didn't have a choice in the matter. He didn't "willingly" contribute. And for people who might say "But why didn't he use SSJ3 in the fight against Vegeta?" - That's a really simple explanation too. Goku using SSJ3 heavily reduced the time left he had on Earth. If he had used that to fight Vegeta, there's no way he would even have enough time to fight Buu afterwards AND train Goten & Trunks.

Next, the reason Goku doesn't kill Buu is a simple one. He's dead. What happens when he's gone? What would have happened if Buu was released and he wasn't here? He needed to pass the torch down to the next generation and give them a chance at protecting the Earth because (at the time) he knew he couldn't do it after that day was up. Eventually he was revived and was needed to help save the Earth, but in no way, shape, or form was that ever planned from the beginning for him, and I don't think he could have ever seen being revived by the Elder Kai's life to be a thing.

People always try to bring up this example and the Cell senzu example, yet both of them make complete sense and aren't stupid decisions at all. Nothing is even remotely comparable to the borderline braindead way he acts in Super sometimes.

If Goku used SSJ3 in his fight against Vegeta, that fight would have literally lasted 5 seconds because he would have been able to knock Vegeta out with a single punch considering how much stronger he was than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. Then Vegeta is down for the count, he teleports to where Dabra and Babidi are, kills them and Majin Boo is never resurrected. The Majin Boo arc could have ended if Goku actually used some damn sense for like 10 seconds.

Nothing would have changed if Majin Boo was released because in the end everyone dies, even with Goku's assistance. Goku didn't need to create a scenario where the new generation would have to defend themselves. There was never the implication from the get-go that Goku had planned for Goten and Trunks take the helm and be the defenders of Earth when first came to life or when he realized Majin Boo had been resurrected. Because he already entrusted that role to Gohan. In fact, he was up for the scenario of fighting Majin Boo together with Vegeta.

Goku giving Cell a senzu still absolutely ridiculous and still is the dumbest thing he's ever done. The reasoning he gives is nothing beyond the fact that the Cell was exhausted and he wanted to make the fight fair. What kind of fucked up mentality is that? Especially considering it's a battle that decides the fate of world? Goku up until that point, and still to this day, had never, ever, ever actively and willingly aided his opponents in becoming stronger in high stakes battle, especially before the battle. Why the hell did he think it would be a good idea now? Especially since Cell wasn't even fighting at full power against him or SSJ Gohan. Cell could have easily killed Gohan out of boredom.

I'm really intrigued to know all the times that Goku acted borderline braindead beyond episode 42, which even I will admit, Goku acted far more naive than usual in. Forgetting the senzu or the Mafuba jar seal doesn't equate to lack of intelligence and it boggle my mind why people are making this assertion. Forgetfulness has never been linked to having a low IQ because everyone on the damn planet has forgotten at least one important thing in their lives. Does that make them stupid? No, it damn well doesn't. Are we know casting a far wider net for what qualifies as an unintelligent person as having a lapses in concentration in a critical moments? Something that has happened to everyone since the beginning of time?

What choice did he had that wasn't fighting Vegeta? The Saiyan pride deal has been a thing since the beginning, there's no arguing that.
The death of billions of people is irrelevant since he explicitly (keyword) mentions they'll bring them back with the Dragon Balls.

He was confident that the kids could be able to defeat Boo. He explictly states that while it's a terrible risk, he's not part of the world anymore and it'll be better in the long run.

That's my whole point. Goku back then was wise and written in a way that he represented the head of the team. You had the funny panels here and there, but overall he behaved much more like and experienced, grown-up man. Now it's completely different.

Take a look at the scene were he forgets the Senzu. I wouldn't have a problem with it if was presented in a good way, but not, it's just a joke so the kids can have a quick laugh. Or when he had to pee at the Beerus castle, or when he called Zeno while in the future, making funny faces and comments, or how he throws a tantrum and wants to start the tournament just because he's bored.

That's the problem with the character now. He's much more like the early DB days were he was used as comic relief outside of fighting. It made sense back then but now it's just plain stupid.

So as long as all the people who dies because of Goku's action are brought back to life that makes everything okay? So if nobody dies at the end of the Universal Survival arc, you'll have no issue with Goku's actions in this arc, will you then?

The new generation didn't need to prove anything. Goku already passed on the torch to Gohan at the Cell Games and him coming back to life in the Majin Boo was the "free pass" to end all free passes. Majin Boo didn't need to be unleashed onto the world in the first place on some misguided notion that two children would be capable of handling the threat. Which in the end, they weren't.

Goku still a source of comic relief outside of fighting even when he grows up. It's seen much more predominately in the Majin Boo arc where Goku still acts somewhat childish and immature regarding certain matters. Such as when he blasts Elder Kaioshin in he face to see how strong he is, or when he threw potara earring several feet away from Gohan and comically freaked out towards Super Boo, or when tries to offer dirty magazines to Elder Kaioshin in exchange for learning more about his mystical powers or challenging Vegeta to a Rock-Paper-Scissors fight to see who goes up against Kid Boo first. Goku can still be a very funny guy, sometimes of the handling of some comically intended scenarios in Super could be better, but it's hardly detrimental to his character.

[Kanassa]

Goku giving Cell a senzu still absolutely ridiculous and still is the dumbest thing he's ever done. The reasoning he gives is nothing beyond the fact that the Cell was exhausted and he wanted to make the fight fair. What kind of fucked up mentality is that? Especially considering it's a battle that decides the fate of world? Goku up until that point, and still to this day, had never, ever, ever actively and willingly aided his opponents in becoming stronger in high stakes battle, especially before the battle. Why the hell did he think it would be a good idea now? Especially since Cell wasn't even fighting at full power against him or SSJ Gohan. Cell could have easily killed Gohan out of boredom.

It's always brought up that Goku just knew that GOhan would win, when really, Goku was wrong in the end. Gohan completely fucked up to such a degree that the planet was two seconds away from complete destruction and Goku had to step in and take the hit to King Kai as well as leave Gohan with the thought that "I got my father killed!". And even then, the whole planet was on the line, who fucking cares if Gohan still has a chance at Cell's full power, who cares about being fair? What the fuck do you lose if you don't hand over the senzu bean, Goku? It's Gohan and Cell's fight, and Cell already showed he didn't care about the actual tournament or any element of rules by blowing up the ring. What, do you think the announcer is gonna pop up and force you to gather the Dragon Balls and revive Cell if the fight wasn't fair enough?

No matter how you slice it, needlessly putting the fate of the entire planet on the line when the other solution has much less risk and pretty much no drawbacks is the stupidest thing Goku has ever done.

[Asura]

If Goku used SSJ3 in his fight against Vegeta, that fight would have literally lasted 5 seconds because he would have been able to knock Vegeta out with a single punch considering how much stronger he was than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta. Then Vegeta is down for the count, he teleports to where Dabra and Babidi are, kills them and Majin Boo is never resurrected. The Majin Boo arc could have ended if Goku actually used some damn sense for like 10 seconds.

You're overestimating SSJ3's strength. It would have made him much stronger than Vegeta, but not so much stronger that he could have knocked him out and ended the fight in 5 seconds. Not only that, it most likely would have released Buu even faster because of all the power Goku was giving off.

There was never the implication from the get-go that Goku had planned for Goten and Trunks take the helm and be the defenders of Earth when first came to life or when he realized Majin Boo had been resurrected. Because he already entrusted that role to Gohan.

Yes, Gohan who had already been "killed" by Majin Buu. The same Gohan who despite being passed the mantle to, completely gave up on his training for 7 years. Meanwhile, Goten & Trunks are already Super Saiyans for their age. He wanted to help fight Buu together with Vegeta, but notice that the key word is together. Goku is dead, and in future events there would be no "together". There'd just be Vegeta. Except now there isn't even Vegeta since he's playing for the other side.

Goku giving Cell a senzu still absolutely ridiculous and still is the dumbest thing he's ever done. The reasoning he gives is nothing beyond the fact that the Cell was exhausted and he wanted to make the fight fair. What kind of fucked up mentality is that? Especially considering it's a battle that decides the fate of world? Goku up until that point, and still to this day, had never, ever, ever actively and willingly aided his opponents in becoming stronger in high stakes battle, especially before the battle. Why the hell did he think it would be a good idea now? Especially since Cell wasn't even fighting at full power against him or SSJ Gohan. Cell could have easily killed Gohan out of boredom.

It's not the dumbest thing he's ever done. In fact it's not even dumb. I don't know why people keep confusing arrogant with dumb when it comes to this situation. Goku got cocky and gave the senzu bean to Cell because he wanted to be honorable and make the fight fair, because he knew that Gohan had the power to destroy him even with that. And Gohan did have that power, and he did destroy him. In fact, it may have been because of that which Gohan was able to unleash his power on Cell. Perhaps Gohan never would have been able to realize his power if Cell was a bit weakened and not as harsh on him when they started the fight. It was a gamble that paid off. It wasn't dumb at all, just arrogant.

I'm really intrigued to know all the times that Goku acted borderline braindead beyond episode 42, which even I will admit, Goku acted far more naive than usual in. Forgetting the senzu or the Mafuba jar seal doesn't equate to lack of intelligence and it boggle my mind why people are making this assertion. Forgetfulness has never been linked to having a low IQ because everyone on the damn planet has forgotten at least one important thing in their lives. Does that make them stupid? No, it damn well doesn't. Are we know casting a far wider net for what qualifies as an unintelligent person as having a lapses in concentration in a critical moments? Something that has happened to everyone since the beginning of time?

It's just his general attitude and behavior, something that's been brought up a few times in this thread previously. He just acts like a bumbling idiot. Moments that should be serious have him acting like a goofy dumbass. He comes off as annoying. People say that's just his REAL behavior that the anime/english dub never showed or something, but that's a pretty bad excuse because anyone can just read the manga and see that while yes, Goku is a goofy hick, he doesn't act like that almost ALL THE TIME. That's the problem. Super has no subtlety when it comes to Goku's character. He's loud, annoying, and obnoxious. Before Goku was a simple man who had his serious moments. Now Goku is just a simple man. Not even a man really, a child.

It's always brought up that Goku just knew that GOhan would win, when really, Goku was wrong in the end. Gohan completely fucked up to such a degree that the planet was two seconds away from complete destruction and Goku had to step in and take the hit to King Kai as well as leave Gohan with the thought that "I got my father killed!". And even then, the whole planet was on the line, who fucking cares if Gohan still has a chance at Cell's full power, who cares about being fair? What the fuck do you lose if you don't hand over the senzu bean, Goku? It's Gohan and Cell's fight, and Cell already showed he didn't care about the actual tournament or any element of rules by blowing up the ring. What, do you think the announcer is gonna pop up and force you to gather the Dragon Balls and revive Cell if the fight wasn't fair enough?

Gohan did win. Goku knew that Gohan was much more powerful than both him and Cell. He gave Cell the senzu knowing Gohan would unleash his power and become stronger. And Gohan did become stronger. He couldn't anticipate Gohan getting cocky and bloodthirsty. That fact had nothing to do with his decision to give Cell the senzu because it couldn't be anticipated. As a matter of fact though, regardless of whether or not Cell was given the senzu, the exact same situation would have happened with him threatening to blow up once he lost, which Gohan wouldn't be able to kill him that way. Absolutely nothing would have changed in that regard whether Goku gave the senzu or not.

[FortuneSSJ]

That picture you posted pretty much completely contradicts your entire point about Goku having the best portrayal of himself ever during the exhibition matches. He says he's never really been aware that he saved the world and that he just wants to fight strong guys... BUT he then goes on to say "But I can't stand innocent people and animals getting erased." which completely contradicts how he acted during the exhibition matches where he basically gave every universe the finger because he doesn't care about them or all the lives within them getting erased.

First it's important to remember that Zeno was already planning to destroy the weaker Universes. Sometimes I feel people forget this which is an important detail. Goku remind him of the Tournament, gave a chance to at least one of those weaker Universes to survive. As for the others, there's nothing to worry about when he knows the winner (and Goku believes he will win) gets the Super Dragon Balls and can wish whatever he wants. No way Goku will let all his opponents disappear forever, but it's also true he won't put them above his fun.

Toriyama intended for Goku to be a selfish dude who only cares about fighting, but that was definitely not accurately portrayed in the exhibition matches. Instead, this trait was horribly exaggerated (just like many of his traits are in Super which multiple people here have already pointed out) and made him come off as borderline evil. They pushed this narrative so hard in fact with trying to get people to see Goku as evil (both the other universes and the audience) that one has to wonder whether it was done on purpose. If this was the most accurate portrayal of Goku, how come there are so many people who see it as the exact opposite? Saying that those people never read the manga and don't understand Goku's character can only get you so far. MasakoX for example, who is an absolute wealth of knowledge when it comes to DB also gave some remarks in his episode reviews and even made an entire video about how Goku was not acting at all like himself and the way he was being written was very strange.

It's due to the circumstances. In all the other arcs it's clear who the villain is, but in this one for the first time the answer is more ambiguous.

For the first time Goku is fighting Super-Heroes, who makes him come out as the villain and he will participate on a Tournament where the Universes existence are on stake while he keeps prioritizing his fun above everything like always, unlike everyone else who are serious about this.

People bitch about Caulifla's attitude towards him, but she had the most realistic attitude a character could have in that situation. They are in there to fight for their lives, not to make new friends. Goku's easy-going attitude it's what is "wrong" in this scenario, but that's who Son Goku is.

Due the situation he's in, his behaviour will make some people raise their eyebrows, but honestly there's no better test for Toriyama's Son Goku than this arc and I never found his character more enjoyable than I am finding now.

In my explanation I'm obviously excluding people that only know dub cliché Goku. Change from a Goku thay says "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!" to the real one is already a shock on its own.

[Asura]

First it's important to remember that Zeno was already planning to destroy the weaker Universes. Sometimes I feel people forget this which is an important detail. Goku remind him of the Tournament, gave a chance to at least one of those weaker Universes to survive.

It's not that people forget this fact, it's just that it's irrelevant in the context of it not validatating the way Goku was acting before he even knew that his actions would cause at least one universe to survive instead of them all being wiped out. He was acting like a complete villain and giving everyone the finger before he (and the audience) even knew that what he did was a good thing.

For the first time Goku is fighting Super-Heroes, who makes him come out as the villain and he will participate on a Tournament where the Universes existence are on stake while he keeps prioritizing his fun above everything like always, unlike everyone else who are serious about this.

Because what says Goku's character better than "Hey let me destroy multiple universes equaling trillions upon trillions of innocent lives so I can have my 48 minutes of fun" - this is an exaggerated character trait. Goku does selfish things so he can fight strong people, but he wouldn't do something as absolutely ridiculous as this. You know how in the Cell saga Goku was arrogant with giving Cell the senzu and then realized he fucked up but it was already too late? That's an example of Goku being arrogant and selfish just so he can see a good fight, and he regretted his actions. Compare that to the Goku in the exhibition matches who absolutely could not give a shit who he insulted and who was being potentially wiped from existence. There was no contemplation by ANYONE. Even Gohan didn't seem to give a shit about any of the other universes who (at the time) seemed like Goku had just doomed. Almost everyone was written oddly out of character during the beginning of this arc.

The great thing about Goku in Z is that he's able to balance his selfish desires and just wanting to fight strong guys for the sake of fighting strong guys, with also taking things seriously and understanding that he should protect innocent people and not let the Earth ever come to any harm. Goku in Super is only half of that equation. Essentially, he's half the man he was. He's regressed.

People bitch about Caulifla's attitude towards him, but she had the most realistic attitude a character could have in that situation. They are in there to fight for their lives, not to make new friends. Goku's easy-going attitude it's what is "wrong" in this scenario, but that's who Son Goku is.

I do agree with you here. People were having an issue with Caulifla's attitude towards Goku but it made a lot of sense. It would be completely in character at that point for Goku to have that easy going attitude. Problem is, we started with this easy going attitude from the get-go with the exhibition matches (which, like I said, made Goku look like a horrible person because we (and him) didn't even know about the Zeno rule at the time) and it wasn't until the Freeza episodes where Goku actually started to revert back to his Z self and realize that he needs to take things a bit seriously and realize what's at stake here that he would even need to ask for the help of a disgusting villain like Freeza.

Z Goku undoubtedly would have reacted the same to Caulifla, but he would definitely have had a lot more serious moments instead of just those two Freeza episodes (which in my opinion easily had the best writing in the entirety of Super so far. We got both his serious attitude with Freeza, and his goofy attitude where he tries to explain to Beerus and everyone else that everything's cool and chill and no worries. That is the Goku I know, and that is how he should always be written.) There's a reason those two episodes were heavily, heavily praised on the writing aspect, with many calling them some of the best written episodes in the show, and I think a large majority of that has to do with Goku acted.

[Avok]

So as long as all the people who dies because of Goku's action are brought back to life that makes everything okay?

It absolutely does. He decided to sacrifice the people of Earth at the expense of time so the kids could learn a technique to kill Boo. Completely logical decision.
Not only that, but go take a look at the maturity of Goku; how he behaves in those scenarios. That's my point.

So if nobody dies at the end of the Universal Survival arc, you'll have no issue with Goku's intentions in this arc, will you then?

Read my previous posts. I absolutely would have a problem because back then Goku's actions were either foreshadowed (Gohans potential) or expliticly mentioned.
Even if at the end of the arc he uses the SDB to revive everyone I would still say that it has been handled pooly because there are no scenes that suggest such thing. No confidence or hidden meaning like back in the day, no seriousness, just comedic relief scenes.

The new generation didn't need to prove anything. Goku already passed on the torch to Gohan at the Cell Games and him coming back to life in the Majin Boo was the "free pass" to end all free passes. Majin Boo didn't need to be unleashed onto the world in the first place on some misguided notion that two children would be capable of handling the threat. Which in the end, they weren't.

At that time Goku thought Gohan was dead. With Vegeta dead the only two Saiyan remaining were the only ones left with the task.
Again, look at how serious he behaves in the whole deal.

Goku still a source of comic relief outside of fighting even when he grows up. It's seen much more predominately in the Majin Boo arc where Goku still acts somewhat childish and immature regarding certain matters. Such as when he blasts Elder Kaioshin in he face to see how strong he is, or when he threw potara earring several feet away from Gohan and comically freaked out towards Super Boo, or when tries to offer dirty magazines to Elder Kaioshin in exchange for learning more about his mystical powers or challenging Vegeta to a Rock-Paper-Scissors fight to see who goes up against Kid Boo first. Goku can still be a very funny guy, sometimes of the handling of some comically intended scenarios in Super could be better, but it's hardly detrimental to his character.

I did mention that the comedy scenes existed in the manga, but they were spread out and different than in Super.
Watch the scene of when he blasts the old Kaioshin, completely different humor and behaviour than piss jokes, the whole Senzy deal or falling off the time machine, among his interaction with the other characters in every episode.

[Lord Beerus]

You're overestimating SSJ3's strength. It would have made him much stronger than Vegeta, but not so much stronger that he could have knocked him out and ended the fight in 5 seconds. Not only that, it most likely would have released Buu even faster because of all the power Goku was giving off.

SSJ3 Goku was 4 times stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta at that time. And the story has already emphasized that a much small gap in power can easily knock out an opponent. Babidi still needed a good portion of energy to resurrect Majin Boo and one punch, even from a SSJ3 Goku not going at all, wouldn't have be enough to bring Majin Boo back to life.

Yes, Gohan who had already been "killed" by Majin Buu. The same Gohan who despite being passed the mantle to, completely gave up on his training for 7 years. Meanwhile, Goten & Trunks are already Super Saiyans for their age. He wanted to help fight Buu together with Vegeta, but notice that the key word is together. Goku is dead, and in future events there would be no "together". There'd just be Vegeta. Except now there isn't even Vegeta since he's playing for the other side.

So... where was the implication from the get-go that Goku had planned for Goten and Trunks take the helm and be the defenders of Earth when he first came back to life or when he realized Majin Boo had been resurrected? Yes, Gohan may have slacked off in training but he was still stronger than Goten and Trunks and Goten. Vegeta wasn't playing any side expect for himself. In fact, the only thing he gave a shit about was defeating Goku. He wasn't taking orders from Babidi and in the end, even he still realized that Majin Boo was the bigger fish to fry and was even willing to kill himself to stop Majin Boo and did it to protect his family and Goku.

It's not the dumbest thing he's ever done. In fact it's not even dumb. I don't know why people keep confusing arrogant with dumb when it comes to this situation. Goku got cocky and gave the senzu bean to Cell because he wanted to be honorable and make the fight fair, because he knew that Gohan had the power to destroy him even with that. And Gohan did have that power, and he did destroy him. In fact, it may have been because of that which Gohan was able to unleash his power on Cell. Perhaps Gohan never would have been able to realize his power if Cell was a bit weakened and not as harsh on him when they started the fight. It was a gamble that paid off. It wasn't dumb at all, just arrogant

It's one thing if Goku is confident in Gohan, but that overconfidence spilled over into foolishness. There was no need for Goku to restore Cell's strength and put Gohan at a potential disadvantage. Mr Satan, of all people, was primarily responsible for Gohan unlocking his potential. Prior to becoming a SSJ2, he was getting his ass kicked from a version of Perfect Cell that still wasn't fighting at full strength. And he wouldn't have been able fight at the power he did against SSJ Gohan if Goku didn't give him a senzu. SSJ Gohan could have fared better against an exhausted Perfect Cell. There was no need for Goku to make it a fair fight when the stakes were so fucking high. The fate of the entire world hinged on how Gohan performed against Cell. Goku has never taken a gamble of that magnitude before, and it while it played out fine, that doesn't negate the fact that what did was needlessly reckless and dumb, regards of what kind of cockiness Goku may have had of Gohan's strength compared to Cell. Cell could have killed him out of boredom.

It's just his general attitude and behavior, something that's been brought up a few times in this thread previously. He just acts like a bumbling idiot. Moments that should be serious have him acting like a goofy dumbass. He comes off as annoying. People say that's just his REAL behavior that the anime/english dub never showed or something, but that's a pretty bad excuse because anyone can just read the manga and see that while yes, Goku is a goofy hick, he doesn't act like that almost ALL THE TIME. That's the problem. Super has no subtlety when it comes to Goku's character. He's loud, annoying, and obnoxious. Before Goku was a simple man who had his serious moments. Now Goku is just a simple man. Not even a man really, a child.

I can understand the issue with Goku acting a bit more hyperactive and naive than usual, but I don't understand how that's lead to the generalization that Goku is suddenly a bumbling idiot from how he acted in just a handful of episodes. You don't know why people keep confusing arrogant with dumb but I don't know people keeping confusing hyperactive and naive with dumb either. Goku doesn't act like a goofy asshole in every instance in Super. I really have to question whether people have watched snippets of Super or whether they've watched full episodes of it to come to that conclusion. There was truly one episode where I can unequivocally agree that Goku acted more foolish than usual was Episode 42. Episode 53 was certainly another case of him being more manchild-ish than usual but that's not his attitude with every appearance he makes. When things got serious in the Battle Of Gods arc, Resurrection F arc, Champa arc, the Future Trunks arc and even some filler episodes, he acted appropriately for the scenarios in those respective arcs and extensional episodes. There are a few cases where some of Goku's characteristics are exaggerated for comedic purposes in Super, I won't deny that. But I don't agree with the notion that he acts like a goofy dumbass that 99% of the time in Super because that's just not true.

[Lord Beerus]

It absolutely does. He decided to sacrifice the people of Earth at the expense of time so the kids could learn a technique to kill Boo. Completely logical decision.
Not only that, but go take a look at the maturity of Goku; how he behaves in those scenarios. That's my point.

It was a sacrifice that didn't need to be made even in the first place if Goku just took some responsibility for his actions. And in end, everyone died. So his gamble spectacularly backfired.

Read my previous posts. I absolutely would have a problem because back then Goku's actions were either foreshadowed (Gohans potential) or expliticly mentioned.Even if at the end of the arc he uses the SDB to revive everyone I would still say that it has been handled pooly because there are no scenes that suggest such thing. No confidence or hidden meaning like back in the day, no seriousness, just comedic relief scenes.

There was no hidden meaning with how they planned on dealing the Androids beyond just "we fight them and hope we're stronger". And Goku was already up for stopping Majin Boo with Vegeta when he realized that Majin Boo had been resurrected because of them. There was no mention of whether they should leave up to Goten and Trunks dealing with this until very later in the story and Majin Boo was already on a rampage.

At that time Goku thought Gohan was dead. With Vegeta dead the only two Saiyan remaining were the only ones left with the task.
Again, look at how serious he behaves in the whole deal.

Again, Goku was already up for stopping Majin Boo with Vegeta when he realized that Majin Boo had been resurrected because of them. There was no mention of whether they should leave up to Goten and Trunks dealing with this until very later in the story and Majin Boo was already on a rampage. And this was while Gohan was still alive. And he's not serious when the time calls for it in Super.

I did mention that the comedy scenes existed in the manga, but they were spread out and different than in Super.
Watch the scene of when he blasts the old Kaioshin, completely different humor and behaviour than piss jokes, the whole Senzy deal or falling off the time machine, among his interaction with the other characters in every episode.

The humor is ultimately from the same root: emphasizing how much of manchild Goku can be.

[Kaboom]

This is the most nonensical, utterly ludicrous argument i've ever seen when trying to defend Super's writing. Should be held up as an example of the fanbase headcanoning the most nonsensical shit just to make sense of the show. just LOL

There's really no need at all to be snippy and condescending like this, both in this post specifically and other posts of yours as of late. Consider this a free warning and encouragement to please be more cordial when having these discussions.

[Jack Bz]

You're overestimating SSJ3's strength. It would have made him much stronger than Vegeta, but not so much stronger that he could have knocked him out and ended the fight in 5 seconds. Not only that, it most likely would have released Buu even faster because of all the power Goku was giving off.

In the manga it's made pretty clear that the energy gathered is energy from when one of his minions damages the challenger. So he only collected energy from damage Vegeta did to Goku.

[gofishus]

Kiss isn't required for reproduction, it's highly likely both of them didn't know it's a thing..
It's not odd from their perspective if you think about it as well, why suck on each other's tongue if it's not required to get the job done?

I'm gonna be honest what you just typed was utterly stupid.

I understand why you might think that..
But Kissing isn't as popular as you think it is..
In western countries it's unthinkable to not know what it is, but it dosen't apply everywhere...
In todays age maybe it's not true because of the high exposure from media outlets, but there are still plenty who even if saw the concept of it on the air, don't even know how it's done..

All I am saying is its not terribly hard to understand why ChiChi or goku might have never heard of it, given the conditions they come from

What you said makes no sense. This is coming from someone who's lived in Asian countries and Western countries before. Everyone knows what a kiss is. People from the countryside with no sense of media or TV knows what a kiss is.

[Ki Breaker]

What you said makes no sense. This is coming from someone who's lived in Asian countries and Western countries before. Everyone knows what a kiss is. People from the countryside with no sense of media or TV knows what a kiss is.

You know what, suit yourself..
I am an asian as well..

Don't like or understand it?
Fine, how about goku knows kissing! He does it all the time, Infact he loves it so much he sucks his own dick in shower pretending its a kiss!
But ChiChi has dry fucking lips she refuses to do it..

Hope it makes sense to you! You do know everything there is to know about the world and it's people's knowledge on how to kiss right, you must be aware of situations like this, it should be right up your ally!
I will go talk to wiki tutorials now and let them know how to kiss article is unnecessary