Will Vegeta simply be humiliated again?

[sintzu]

Vegeta became worthless shit tier the second Goku could stack KK on top of Blue, with no equivalent of his own, Vegeta is by default a total non-equal to Goku. It's so obvious I'm surprised by how little he seems to care about this fact.

That's because so far it seems to not be in Toriyama's outline.

IMO he should be humiliated again as thats his only purpose in the show. What else could he do?

His plot line really finished when freeza killed him on namek.

He has just overstayed his welcome.

He should just be the guy that makes the new villain seems stronger.

Save Goku form #19, be the first Saiyan to find a new ssj level, distract Cell long enough for Gohan to kill him, get arguably the best sacrifice in the show, be the 2nd part of the strongest fusuion, hold kid Buu off from Goku, be the only one to touch Beerus without Ssjg and beat down Golden Freeza, take down 3 of Champa's members and impress Hit & beat up Black.

It didn't but it seems like that's as far as you've seen so I understand why you think this.

He, like Goku is the heart and soul of the franchise so if anything he's the best thing to happen to the franchise.

That's pretty much what he and everyone else, including Goku do.

[Miracles]

Vegeta beat up Black last arc. He was stronger than Goku in that arc too. Goku lost to Black more than once.
Toriyama should make the so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta believable by keeping Vegeta from humiliating situations at least.

[sintzu]

Toriyama should make the so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta believable by keeping Vegeta from humiliating situations at least.

Doesn't Goku also get humiliated ? Not as much as Vegeta cause he's the main character but being hit by Sorbet's laser gun probably isn't something he's proud of. He also got tricked by Frost.

[Miracles]

Toriyama should make the so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta believable by keeping Vegeta from humiliating situations at least.

Doesn't Goku also get humiliated ? Not as much as Vegeta cause he's the main character but being hit by Sorbet's laser gun probably isn't something he's proud of. He also got tricked by Frost.

True. Goku also got punked by Black in their first bout right after Vegeta got stabbed.

[HeroR]

Vegeta beat up Black last arc. He was stronger than Goku in that arc too. Goku lost to Black more than once.
Toriyama should make the so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta believable by keeping Vegeta from humiliating situations at least.

And Goku melted half of Merged Zamasu's face when Vegeta couldn't, which is a far better feat than Vegeta beating up Black.

Goku and Vegeta don't have a rivalry except on Vegeta's part. Goku has moved on.

Toriyama should make the so called "rivalry" between Goku and Vegeta believable by keeping Vegeta from humiliating situations at least.

Doesn't Goku also get humiliated ? Not as much as Vegeta cause he's the main character but being hit by Sorbet's laser gun probably isn't something he's proud of. He also got tricked by Frost.

Everyone got tricked by Frost. Vegeta didn't because Jaco already exposed him by the time they fought. Goku got laser, but Vegeta got killed by a weakened final form Freeza because he was too slow to kill him. Whis had to rewind time and Goku got to kill Freeza, while Vegeta looked on in confusion.

[sintzu]

Whis had to rewind time and Goku got to kill Freeza, while Vegeta looked on in confusion.

Why are you giving Goku credit for killing a weak Freeza AFTER getting help from Whis ?

[Jigurashi]

Whis had to rewind time and Goku got to kill Freeza, while Vegeta looked on in confusion.

Why are you giving Goku credit for killing a weak Freeza AFTER getting help from Whis ?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Both Goku and Vegeta royally screwed up there.

[TheMikado]

I think you guys are failing to look at this "competition" from Vegetas perspective in that it's one sided. It doesn't matter if Goku messes up as long as Vegeta comes out ahead. As I pointed out previous, Goku has been reckless and made mistakes but still inexplicably comes out on top.

Literally in universe Vegeta stopped just short of saying Goku has plot armor. Vegeta knows this in universe and it pisses him off because nothing he does will allow him to beat Goku.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

Whenever Frieza betrays the Universe 7 team, which we already know will happen, Vegeta will be the one to take him down, as Goku is probably preoccupied with Toppo or Jiren. This will likely be near the end of the tournament, with the final 10 or so.

[HeroR]

Whis had to rewind time and Goku got to kill Freeza, while Vegeta looked on in confusion.

Why are you giving Goku credit for killing a weak Freeza AFTER getting help from Whis ?

Because it was a battle and Goku won. Freeza got helped too when Sorbet shot Goku, so Goku got helped and killed Freeza. Not hard to figure out.

And you're one to talk since you give Vegeta credit for beating up a weakened Golden Freeza who couldn't even harm Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku anymore and treat it as a shining moment.

Whis had to rewind time and Goku got to kill Freeza, while Vegeta looked on in confusion.

Why are you giving Goku credit for killing a weak Freeza AFTER getting help from Whis ?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Both Goku and Vegeta royally screwed up there.

Freeze got Sorbet's help to beat Goku and and Goku got Whis' help to beat Freeza. Not complicated.

[Simere]

Even Vegeta in-universe is seeming to acknowledge the out of universe intent for his character and even he is frustrated by it. He even acknowledge that Goku seems to be guided by a strange force, its what we would call out of universe "PLOT ARMOR". This is also why GT Vegeta is my favorite Vegeta. His internal reflection of his life and internal character analysis is top notch! Its even more ironic that GT Vegeta has better grasp of his internal character analysis that fans watching this as the audience.

Dub GT Vegeta.

[sintzu]

You're one to talk since you give Vegeta credit for beating up a weakened Golden Freeza.

Of course I'm going to give him credit, it was the very first time he got to beat down a main villain. Sure Freeza was weakened but he's the bad guy so it's OK to take advantage of him .

In terms of Goku getting help being the same as Freeza, it's not. Freeza is the bad guy so you expect him to cheat, Goku wasn't so it just makes him look bad .

[HeroR]

You're one to talk since you give Vegeta credit for beating up a weakened Golden Freeza.

Of course I'm going to give him credit, it was the very first time he got to beat down a main villain. Sure Freeza was weakened but he's the bad guy so it's OK to take advantage of him .

In terms of Goku getting help being the same as Freeza, it's not. Freeza is the bad guy so you expect him to cheat, Goku wasn't so it just makes him look bad .

You mean other than Cell, or he doesn't count because he wasn't perfect at the time? He beat down a weakened and tired foe, that's nothing to brag about. And in the end, Freeza still killed him and he had to be saved by Goku.

There is no rule that says, "the good guys can't cheat". In a life and death battle, anything goes.

[sintzu]

There is no rule that says, "the good guys can't cheat". In a life and death battle, anything goes.

True but seeing your favorite hero do something like that is just wrong. Can you imagine seeing something like Superman breaking Zod's...I need a minute .

[HeroR]

There is no rule that says, "the good guys can't cheat". In a life and death battle, anything goes.

True but seeing your favorite hero do something like that is just wrong. Can you imagine seeing something like Superman breaking Zod's...I need a minute .

How it is wrong? It is always a good thing when the heroes act practical. As Beerus said in the dub, "this isn't fun and games, you're fighting for your life".

As for Superman breaking Zod's neck, I am in the minority, but I liked that scene. Superman's no-kill policy mades him do stupid shit and led to far more deaths than needed he just grew a pair and kill the dangerous foe. He had every right to kill a dangerous alien who was trying to murder a family. It's honestly why I like manga more than comics since comics treat killing wrong no matter the context. As Dragon Ball points out, persevering life is fine, but there come a point where you really just need to kill the person for the better good.

[sintzu]

How it is wrong ? As for Superman breaking Zod's neck, I am in the minority, but I liked that scene. It's honestly why I like manga more than comics since comics treat killing wrong no matter the context. As Dragon Ball points out, persevering life is fine, but there come a point where you really just need to kill the person for the better good.

It's not, I'm just being sarcastic (that's why I used the smilies). A hero killing when it's called for is something I'm all for. I also agree about manga being better for that reason (among others). I think the reason comics don't cross that line is because they were originally for kids so it's something that carried over even though they're more aimed at adults now.

[Miracles]

And Goku melted half of Merged Zamasu's face when Vegeta couldn't, which is a far better feat than Vegeta beating up Black.

Goku and Vegeta don't have a rivalry except on Vegeta's part. Goku has moved on

Vegeta didn't use full power against merged Zamasu. Galick-Ho is not his best. Final Flash is. Then he had enough Ki to shield Trunks from god's lightning.
There is no proof if Goku with Kaioken was stronger than Vegeta. Vegeta was definitely proven stronger than Goku blue against Black.

[TheMikado]

Even Vegeta in-universe is seeming to acknowledge the out of universe intent for his character and even he is frustrated by it. He even acknowledge that Goku seems to be guided by a strange force, its what we would call out of universe "PLOT ARMOR". This is also why GT Vegeta is my favorite Vegeta. His internal reflection of his life and internal character analysis is top notch! Its even more ironic that GT Vegeta has better grasp of his internal character analysis that fans watching this as the audience.

Dub GT Vegeta.

Is better written than the entirety of Super Vegeta.

There I finished your sentence for you.

[Nano]

How can anyone think Caulifla and or Kale stand a chance against Vegeta? They've just learned how to become Super Saiyans. He's been doing this shit years. And besides, if any SSJ form stands a chance against SSB then that would be just ridiculous. Then again we do have the Future Trunks bullshit so who knows, right?

Hit? Lol, he's a joke now... has been since Goku hired him. More interested in the silhouettes from U6. I bet you one of them is the Mortal stronger than their GoD.

[TheMikado]

How can anyone think Caulifla and or Kale stand a chance against Vegeta? They've just learned how to become Super Saiyans. He's been doing this shit years. And besides, if any SSJ form stands a chance against SSB then that would be just ridiculous. Then again we do have the Future Trunks bullshit so who knows, right?

Hit? Lol, he's a joke now... has been since Goku hired him. More interested in the silhouettes from U6. I bet you one of them is the Mortal stronger than their GoD.

Because fresh SSJ Cabba was about equal to SSJ Vegeta and the two new girls both have more potential and have forms above Cabba.