"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[LowRyder2005]

There're the Gods of Destructions stating Goku belongs to the "realm of the gods" only after he goes Blue, and yet even his Super Saiyan 2 form should be "dozens of times stronger than the Super Saiyan God".

Gowasu described Goku's SSJ2 power as powerful enough to be rivaling a Hakaishin (at least when suppressed). Zamasu, who was on-par with SSJ2 Goku, was scouted as a fighting prodigy which, in Goku's words, can potentially be powerful enough to surpass Beerus one day.

That one scene's context pertained to Gowas' reaction after being already told that Goku had fought Beerus and survived, though. It doesn't necessarily mean Goku was outputting power that rivaled Beerus' - or even BOG's Beerus - at that very moment: it was more likely a case of Gowas remarking "just who's this guy whose power has to rival Beerus". This is especially probable when you think that Goku fighting equally with the weaker-than-Beerus Zamas wouldn't certainly be any "eureka" moment for Gowas, or a case of Goku performing beyond Gowas' expectations (which were in all likelihood "this guy can rival Beerus"). I think the user Marlowe89 had made a rather clarifying post about it, perhaps in this very thread.

In short, it appears like Gowas either hastily concluded Super Saiyan 2 Goku was enough to match Beerus - which was a gross overstatement - or, possibly, making a reference to the general, recently inferred notion that the guy who was fighting Zamas could survive against Beerus (what he probably didn't know was that Beerus was suppressed).

And again, consequences. With the premises postulated above (SS2 ~= Hakaishin) it would mean that people like SS2 Goku and Present Zamas are "many tens of times" stronger than the Super Saiyan God; yet Goku fights as a Super Saiyan in the tournament - hence, let's say "at least ten times stronger than the Super Saiyan God" for convenience's sake - and people would not take him for someone who belongs to any godly tier of strength at all. I mean, you could take it for "Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan < "Gods' Realm" in the eyes of the Gods < "many times" < Super Saiyan 2, 3 and Blue" I guess, but wouldn't it be a little too convenient, if not slightly contradictory given the nomenclature?

[HeroR]

Using the Champa Saga makes no sense since in they U7 did weakest to strongest and didn't have a load like Monaka. To be frank, nothing shows that they didn't do this.

This line confused me.
Are we talking about U7 or U6's team being in strength order?

Hit and Goku are clearly the strongest, and fair enough they were the last battle(ignoring Monaka), but Goku also went first and I'm not sure I believe Cabba>Magetta going by the battles they had with Vegeta.

The reason why the team was setup the way it was in the Champa Saga was because Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo played rock-paper-scissors. This time, they pout actually thought into the line up. Cabba was the only odd man out on Champa's team. U9, from what we have, have no reason not to weakest-strongest.

And it's always the same posters here that underplay the entire U6 team, while wanking Buu like he's still hot crap who can solo everyone outside of Blue. Fact is, base form Goku >> Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks = Super Buu > Fat Buu.

This is simple power scaling. So saying that U6 is inferior to Buu who are at least equal to base form Goku is just downplaying.

[LowRyder2005]

Using the Champa Saga makes no sense since in they U7 did weakest to strongest and didn't have a load like Monaka. To be frank, nothing shows that they didn't do this.

This line confused me.
Are we talking about U7 or U6's team being in strength order?

Hit and Goku are clearly the strongest, and fair enough they were the last battle(ignoring Monaka), but Goku also went first and I'm not sure I believe Cabba>Magetta going by the battles they had with Vegeta.

Now that I re-think about this it doesn't even work even if the claim had to be related to U6: Frost was the best hand-to-hand fighter according to Cabba, and went before Cabba, who also was implied to be comparable to base Vegeta's power, who was comparable to base Goku, who was implied to be inferior to final form Frost. Hence, not even U7 technically followed some weakest-to-strongest criteria.

U9, from what we have, have no reason not to weakest-strongest.

Just like U7, then. Or not.

Honestly, it's plenty legitimate if you assume this because for the sake of keeping a streamlined approach in which everyone became extremely strong in comparison to their Z selves because of the Vegeta vs. Gotenks bit (I still don't think it's the sensible thing to do, but hey, I may be wrong); however, using this "it needs to be just that at all times" condition has already proven contradictory. Come on, now.

EDIT: I meant to say "just like U6".

[HeroR]

Using the Champa Saga makes no sense since in they U7 did weakest to strongest and didn't have a load like Monaka. To be frank, nothing shows that they didn't do this.

This line confused me.
Are we talking about U7 or U6's team being in strength order?

Hit and Goku are clearly the strongest, and fair enough they were the last battle(ignoring Monaka), but Goku also went first and I'm not sure I believe Cabba>Magetta going by the battles they had with Vegeta.

Now that I re-think about this it doesn't even work even if the claim had to be related to U7: Frost was the best hand-to-hand fighter according to Cabba, and went before Cabba, who was equal to base Vegeta, who was comparable to base Goku, who was inferior to final form Frost. Hence, not even U7 technically followed some weakest-to-strongest criteria.

U9, from what we have, have no reason not to weakest-strongest.

Just like U7, then. Or not.

Honestly, it's plenty legitimate if you assume this because for the sake of keeping a streamlined approach in which everyone became extremely strong in comparison to their Z selves because of the Vegeta vs. Gotenks bit (I still don't think it's the sensible thing to do, but hey, I may be wrong); however, using this "it needs to be just that at all times" condition has already proven contradictory. Come on, now.

U7 did go weakest the strongest in the exhibition so what they did during the Champa Saga is moot.

Buu was never stated to have gotten stronger until he became Skinny Buu. So unless you think Buu back in the Champa Saga became stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and no thought to mentioned this, Buu isn't soloing U6 outside of turning them into candy and that thing can be dodged or blown back as Evil and Kid Buu showed.

[LowRyder2005]

This line confused me.
Are we talking about U7 or U6's team being in strength order?

Hit and Goku are clearly the strongest, and fair enough they were the last battle(ignoring Monaka), but Goku also went first and I'm not sure I believe Cabba>Magetta going by the battles they had with Vegeta.

Now that I re-think about this it doesn't even work even if the claim had to be related to U7: Frost was the best hand-to-hand fighter according to Cabba, and went before Cabba, who was equal to base Vegeta, who was comparable to base Goku, who was inferior to final form Frost. Hence, not even U7 technically followed some weakest-to-strongest criteria.

U9, from what we have, have no reason not to weakest-strongest.

Just like U7, then. Or not.

Honestly, it's plenty legitimate if you assume this because for the sake of keeping a streamlined approach in which everyone became extremely strong in comparison to their Z selves because of the Vegeta vs. Gotenks bit (I still don't think it's the sensible thing to do, but hey, I may be wrong); however, using this "it needs to be just that at all times" condition has already proven contradictory. Come on, now.

U7 did go weakest the strongest in the exhibition so what they did during the Champa Saga is moot.

Buu was never stated to have gotten stronger until he became Skinny Buu. So unless you think Buu back in the Champa Saga became stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and no thought to mentioned this, Buu isn't soloing U6 outside of turning them into candy and that thing can be dodged or blown back as Evil and Kid Buu showed.

I apologize. I actually meant to say "Universe 6"... but I guess I also vehemently disagree with Super Saiyan Gohan being stronger than Mr. Buu. What I think about Gohan and the whole situation of the anime in that regard has been clarified in a post exactly one page ago. I deem extremely difficult to logically reconcile official statements with some outlandish theory in which Gohan was about as strong as his old "Ultimate Gohan" form in base, and yet was advertised as in dire need to "regain his lost strength" (and yet all the while "Ultimate Gohan" wasn't in the show, and had to "return" - some logical equivalent of a Maurits Cornelis Escher's painting).

So yeah, I'll have to agree with whoever said Mr. Buu would have prolly had the means to defeat everyone but Hit. I technically have doubts about him matching Frost strength-wise; it mostly depends on what kind of improvements Goku had made thanks to Whis' training.

[Whatever]

Because there's no reason not to think they didn't go weakest to strongest. Even after Basil lost to Buu, they thought Lavenda would kill Gohan and they had no reason to conclude that Gohan was weaker than Buu.

Using the Champa Saga makes no sense since in they U7 did weakest to strongest and didn't have a load like Monaka. To be frank, nothing shows that they didn't do this.

Basil knocked Buu around until he hurt Satan and even then held his own. The match wasn't as one-sided as you're pushing.

You say I downplay Buu. No, you downplay Basil and Lavenda.

That user seems to downplay anyone who isn't Buu, despite there being numerous indications that both existing characters and new characters have long surpassed the overrated, unnecessarily comical blob.

Seriously, I said this before and I'll say it again. Universal powerhouses who debut with seemingly unparalleled power levels don't seem to mean much in the long run. How many times have characters surpassed seemingly unreachable benchmarks with little to no effort?

I seriously don't get all this hype about Buu. Even in his own saga, he was quite easily surpassed and humiliated moreso than any of the other main villains. Heck, had SSJ3 Goku taken it seriously, the Buu saga would have been over right then and there. I don't recall neither Frieza nor Cell having their saga prolonged just because the protagonist decided to hold back. And let's not even go into the embarrassing thrashings that he received from Ultimate Gohan and SSJ Vegetto; and we could have even added SSJ3 Gotenks to that list, if he weren't so caught up in his over confidence. Oh and nothing really amazing about a character who relies on absorptions as his main source of power ups.

But in all fairness, I do love the friendship Buu was able to form with Hercule. Probably the coolest thing he's done since his debut.

Buu is definitely stronger than plenty of people in Super. There is a reason he keeps getting written out of sagas. He would of solod all of Frieza's soldiers in the RoF arc and he would of beat all the U6 fighters except Hit unless he was dumb enough to get knocked out of the ring.

Yeah sure,by that logic Yamcha is being written out of saga just because he is too strong as well.
Buu is being written out because Toriyama does not want to do anything with him,not like it matters anyways,his power is not impressive anymore and 6/10 current team members have surpassed him in strength and he would not have done anything in U6 arc outside of maybe ringing out botamo.

[Lapislettuce]

The new ending with Goku and Gohan fighting side by side heavily implies something big is planned for Gohan. I know the endings don't always directly mean anything, but it really does seem like Gohan is going to make it to the end of the tournament and might even be the last one standing.

Again anime endings rarely do any foreshadowings ! this ain't the "Gohan arc" like some people are making it to be, of course he had good built up episodes dude gave up on fighting and they had to give him some episodes to show that he got stronger and he's worth of the tournament, he could possibly have his moment but it won't be as big as people are imagining it ! even when people say "oh this is cell saga all over again" first this ain't like the cell saga one bit, a lot of fighters are coming back to the spotlight not just Gohan, second even in Cell saga Goku was still relevant till the end Gohan didn't save the day on his own.

[Ki Breaker]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

[emperior]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

Boogie back sort of spoilered that Buu would be sleeping so this one might be implying something happening in the tournament? (Like Gohan and Goku being last 2 survivors of U7, or at least the main players)

[Ki Breaker]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

Boogie back sort of spoilered that Buu would be sleeping so this one might be implying something happening in the tournament? (Like Gohan and Goku being last 2 survivors of U7, or at least the main players)

The area they are in dosen't look like the stage at all, if it's indeed spoiling stuff in the literal sense, the tournament isn't completed is what I would assume

[Lapislettuce]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

Boogie back sort of spoilered that Buu would be sleeping so this one might be implying something happening in the tournament? (Like Gohan and Goku being last 2 survivors of U7, or at least the main players)

It also shows Buu in the void with the rest so doesn't mean anything. openings are the ones that foreshadows events not endings ! yeah i do realize they trolled us with buu being in the opening with the rest but if you notice he barely showed up in it.

[King Jacku]

Ohmahgawd. Dat ending. I literally rewatched that little part where Gohan appears next to Goku like 100 times. I'm such a sucker for Father-Son moments, and with it being pretty much confirmed there's going to be a epic moment with them together in the tourney, I'm hyped as hell.



....Goku and Gohan vs Jiren CONFIRMED!!!

[omaro34]

Same reason you get on characters that get constant praise from certain individuals on this forum like Piccolo, Tien, or Krillin.

And to be the guy with the opinion most dislike. I don't normally do it, but I'm in the mood for it on this quiet rainy Sunday afternoon.

Nice try, but I have never got on Krillin or his fandom. No matter how bitter you are about it, Basil got a lot of scene time because Toei wanted him to. They could have easily recycled crap for Piccolo, but they didn't. In fact, they did recycle for Piccolo. His Special Beam Cannon was taking right out of the Resurrection 'F' Saga.

Fair enough, but hey, at least it was worth a shot.

It's my birthday today so hopefully as a present we get more leaks this week.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Finally a preview for Shikishia Art 4...like I thought no spoilers.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The SSGSS Goku and Golden Freeza back to back doesn't fill me with joy, more throwbacks eurgh but whatever.

[Jigurashi]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

Boogie back sort of spoilered that Buu would be sleeping so this one might be implying something happening in the tournament? (Like Gohan and Goku being last 2 survivors of U7, or at least the main players)

This is true, though Boogie Back also prominently featured Bulma and she's pretty insignificant this saga. I feel like maybe elements of the ED's are used in the actual show but it isn't good to start taking things as a definite foreshadowing.

[aravinthan]

Ohmahgawd. Dat ending. I literally rewatched that little part where Gohan appears next to Goku like 100 times. I'm such a sucker for Father-Son moments, and with it being pretty much confirmed there's going to be a epic moment with them together in the tourney, I'm hyped as hell.



....Goku and Gohan vs Jiren CONFIRMED!!!

That won`t be fair. We need Goku Gohan vs Jiren Toppo

[SansrivaaL]

Finally a preview for Shikishia Art 4...like I thought no spoilers.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The SSGSS Goku and Golden Freeza back to back doesn't fill me with joy, more throwbacks eurgh but whatever.

Unless SSJ4 makes its appearance and thats what Goku's new form ends up... dun dun duuuun*

[aravinthan]

[Ki Breaker]

So.. what are we looking at here?
Whats the secret theory I am not understanding

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I noticed in the ending song last scene, goku and gohan are together, goku has noticeable battle damage whereas gohan has none..
Thought it was interesting, Probably means nothing

Boogie back sort of spoilered that Buu would be sleeping so this one might be implying something happening in the tournament? (Like Gohan and Goku being last 2 survivors of U7, or at least the main players)

This is true, though Boogie Back also prominently featured Bulma and she's pretty insignificant this saga. I feel like maybe elements of the ED's are used in the actual show but it isn't good to start taking things as a definite foreshadowing.

I agree, EDs just seem random most of the time like all of the new ED wasn't taking place in the world of void. Also the Buu thing is a strech, nobody thought anything of it at the time just Buu chilling on a cloud.