Will the order of eliminations in the tournament be the final straw that breaks the camels back?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Orb
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Re: Will the order of eliminations in the tournament be the final straw that breaks the camels back?

Post by Orb » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:02 pm

The better question:why does the camel even have straws?

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Re: Will the order of eliminations in the tournament be the final straw that breaks the camels back?

Post by BWri » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:09 pm

Lionel wrote:The gravitational shift towards their power and presence alone being the determinant for the narrative. This constant overemphasis of their power meaning the difference between success and failure. Zamasu perfectly epitomised this notion -- he was galvanised into executing his genocidal agenda due to this power. He based the success of his operation on the very power he resented. Yes, the reasons provided exclusively in the anime concerning his sense of self-sacrifice and purification of the natural order are all very flowery, but fundamentally it's all the same with everyone, even the villains, needing to suckle on the teat of alien primatial might if they want a chance of legitimacy. No limits appear to exist for them either. It's transformation, after transformation, after transformation, after transformation. I lost whatever giddiness I may have initially felt sometime back during the Buu arc. When I see the promotion imagery of this new unknown form, I just feel hollow because it does nothing except add yet add another layer onto the already bloated pile of Saiyan transformations.
I agree. The power bloat is what makes the Saiyans so unbearable. Their abilities have no downsides and they're the Mary Sue of all races inside the show even with all the multiverses introduced. That's why the humans and Piccolo have been my been my favorite characters even before I watched the original Dragon Ball (I started with Z). Once I watched the entirety of DB then I couldn't help but feel robbed that the humans were pushed to the side so badly because of the power creep which was the fault of Frieza's ridiculous level and the plow device zenkais. Even now characters like Vegeta and Frieza can get ridiculous out of nowhere power increases because of their genetics (and plot) while characters like the Earthlings and Piccolo have some sort of soft cap (that Toriyama lifts when he wants to). And none of the off-screen characters have the common sense to seek greater power and techniques. I think Piccolo should have thought to retrain with King Kai a long time ago.
There's nothing about the Saiyans that begets to any admirable status of underdoghood that I, personally, might feel inclined to support -- not with the right tools and advantages afforded to them. The real rags to riches stories lie in those like Krillin and Yamcha who were created on a relatively backwater planet with substandard technology, fighting conditions, and prospects. They ended up becoming some of the most powerful fighters in their universe. Sure, Goku has toiled vigourously to get where he's at, but it can't be denied that he's had the luxury of being able to exploit physiologically unique traits like zenkais and a seemingly unending supply of transformations. I mean jeeze! Where's Zarbon's reptile monster form level 2 or reptile monster god form?
IKR. I always wished to see more of the mutants in Frieza's empire, those like the Ginyu Force, Zarbon, Dodoria, Shisami, and Tagoma. I think Toriyama should have explore our universe more before expanding the story to the multiverse because there's still so much to explore. I always had the feeling that had the Ginyu's survived they would have been the perfect rivals to the Z fighters, able to increase their strength potentially greater than even Piccolo with the right training. And yeah, where is the rest of Zarbon's race? What if their is a prodigy who's unlocked new levels of the ereptile dysfunction form?
I wouldn't really mind it as much if the writers were more considerate and dutiful towards the other cast members.
Writer as in singular. Toei tries it's best to keep everyone relevant, at least in Z. Even Yamcha got some great filler moments. Toriyama still hasn't even given Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, or Piccolo Kaioken even though they trained with King Kai and it'd be the natural upgrade to their power. He gave it back to Goku, who's power already dwarfed theirs. That's the problem. Toriyama is like that gen 1 Pokemon player who allows his starter to do all the work and gets it to level 80 then fights the Elite Four with that starter and a level 11 Clefairy, level 30 Pidgeotto (cuz it came that way), level 8 Geodude, level 30 Snorlax (cuz it came that way), and whatever the hell they caught in the Safari Zone. The non-Goku & Vegeta cast members are all those extra Pokemon that never get used properly.

There's plenty of methods they could use to regain their viability and, as a result, break the endless monotony of everyone's favourite Saiyan duo monopolising the show. The tournament has a chance of breaking that cycle through the other characters, I'll grant, but they're presented as adversarially factionalised outsiders seeking to do in the Z-fighters. We're not holding the likes of Krillin or Tenshinhan or Piccolo to the same standards as any Saiyan or even Freeza because they just don't meet the same centralised characterisation that those three have had or are expected to retain. Plus, whatever contributions they do make will likely be eclipsed by the Saiyans (the Frost battle in the U6 tournament arc comes to mind). So because of that, I'm just going to appreciate what they do have while admittedly not having much satisfaction in what the Saiyans do. I take greater enjoyment in Goku harnessing the Kaioken because it's a generally learned technique that he acquired through regular talent and discipline instead of having the right genes. It also has some consequential drawbacks which make for more interesting fights.
Yeah, I've experienced transformation fatigue. Ever since Super Saiyan Blue, I see through every new vapid Saiyan and Frieza transformation. They essentially do the exact same thing as the last only biggerer and strongerer. The sealing the God Ki in one's body is showing signs that it will do much of the same, instead of something interesting like near unlimited stamina. Super throws a little curveball in their that keeps me watching. The Kaioken was that during the U6 tournament, otherwise I would've dropped it like I did the Frieza arc after Tagoma. I still can't believe that not one of King Kai's other students other than Goku learned it. Not even Tien, who stayed much longer than Goku did. That sucks for that character.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Will the order of eliminations in the tournament be the final straw that breaks the camels back?

Post by precita » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:33 pm

Orb wrote:The better question:why does the camel even have straws?
Because straws are known to break the camels back.

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