How strong could full-blooded Earthlings get?

[Marco Polo]

Uub is a reincarnation.

Who isn't?

That's just how it works in the DBverse.

[TheOne]

Uub is a reincarnation.

Who isn't?

That's just how it works in the DBverse.

What are you talking about?

[SJ158]

Uub is a reincarnation.

Who isn't?

That's just how it works in the DBverse.

What are you talking about?

I think he means that everybody is a reincarnation of someone in the DB universe. I disagree with most people here, I think Uub is the perfect example that humans can be as strong as any other race, since his only difference is spiritual, not biological, since he IS a fully blooded human after all. Which means that human bodies can at least withstand getting as strong as he can get.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

2.1 million.

[TheOne]

Who isn't?

That's just how it works in the DBverse.

What are you talking about?

I think he means that everybody is a reincarnation of someone in the DB universe. I disagree with most people here, I think Uub is the perfect example that humans can be as strong as any other race, since his only difference is spiritual, not biological, since he IS a fully blooded human after all. Which means that human bodies can at least withstand getting as strong as he can get.

No way. The fact that you think tien or Krillin are capable of that exceptional kind of power is ridiculous wishful thinking.

Tien has been training his entire life with no signs of stopping and look where he's at on the power spectrum. Uub is a reincarnation of an all powerful evil ALIEN.

[Lionel]

Prior to Super, I would have conceded to their limits resting somewhere in the low millions territory. With some mystical enhancements like potential unlock courtesy of Elder Kaioshin and the Kaioken, I daresay the stronger earthlings might have even been capable of surpassing Namek arc Freeza and even the earliest Super Saiyans. Now, however? The sky's the limit. This new series has opened a pandora's box where just about anything is possible. Almost... Short of some crazy four-way super Potara fusion, I doubt the humans could catch up to the Saiyans, even with God Ki and finally learning Kaioken.

In the original series, I believe most of the humans are in the millions range. What evidence do I have to support this claim? Nothing much. Just a few common variables which could potentially lend credence to them making incredible gains like Piccolo going from slack-jawed astonishment at Vegeta's ability to perceive the Death Beam projectiles in the Freeza arc to confidently challenging him to combat in the Trunks arc after 625 days of conventional wilderness training. Tenshinhan does about the same except with a training partner and arguably harsher weather conditions on average.

There's nothing in the series to indicate any of the humans having peaked at some insurmountable plateau. It's just the arbitrary limits we set in place to rationalise them not holding up to par with the likes of the "legendary" Super Saiyan or the galactic tyrant, Freeza.

[TysonWine]

I think he means that everybody is a reincarnation of someone in the DB universe. I disagree with most people here, I think Uub is the perfect example that humans can be as strong as any other race, since his only difference is spiritual, not biological, since he IS a fully blooded human after all. Which means that human bodies can at least withstand getting as strong as he can get.

I would disagree. Super has shown us, through Goku Black, that the spirit that lives inside the body affects that individuals potential. Uub has the body and blood of a human, but the spirit of Kid Buu. All the other humans have human spirits, so they can't be compared to Uub.

[SJ158]

I think he means that everybody is a reincarnation of someone in the DB universe. I disagree with most people here, I think Uub is the perfect example that humans can be as strong as any other race, since his only difference is spiritual, not biological, since he IS a fully blooded human after all. Which means that human bodies can at least withstand getting as strong as he can get.

I would disagree. Super has shown us, through Goku Black, that the spirit that lives inside the body affects that individuals potential. Uub has the body and blood of a human, but the spirit of Kid Buu. All the other humans have human spirits, so they can't be compared to Uub.

Thats exactly my point. There is evidence that contradicts the prevalent thesis here that humans are biologically incapable of being uber powerful. Power is a function of many things (amount of ki, ki control, confidence, emotions, the spirit etc). There is now a variable, god ki, that can turn the tides concerning power for the human characters. If the creators really wanted they could do it, but of course it wont happen.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

My guess is Krillin and Tenshinhan are about as strong as third form Freeza on Namek.

Yamcha is probably around Recoome level, maybe Burter/Jeice if we're being generous.

Thats impossible. How would Krillin give SSB Goku a struggle in a Kamehameha blast. Do you undersrand the gap between 3rd form Frieza and say SS right now?

Goku was confirmed holding back. And what Krillin relied on here was his own skills and wits, not pure physical strength. To say Krillin is even in the hundreds of millions let alone the billions is impossible. If Goku were 100% and totally intended on hurting Krillin, there would be no difficulty in doing so. Some fighters can win a fight with quick thinking on their feet and if they can fit in a few surprise attacks, bingo you may have a chance. Real life examples of this against foes much stronger than you. (although I know the gaps are not this massively huge in reality..... But this is Super....)

[Fizzer]

I'd say that between the start of Super and now full-blooded humans have already become much stronger than full power Freeza from DBZ.

From the end of the Freeza arc to the end of the Buu arc, I'd say Krillin and Ten peaked at about the same level as Vegeta when he first came to Earth, maybe around 20,000, with Yamcha and Roshi being much less than that. Humans basically couldn't keep up with Saiyans or Namekians at this point, even ultra powerful ones like Krillin who'd had his potential drawn out. At the start of Super these characters were still all about that level. By the Universe Survival arc Krillin, Ten, Roshi, along with Piccolo and 18, are probably all in the billions, at the very least they are much stronger than Super Buu.

Ummmm... What world are you living in? The humans are nowhere near Frieza in Namek

There has been zero evidence that any of them have gotten to that point.

You're telling me that Krillin, can fight Frieza from Namek saga? The same guy who took 7 years off from fighting, briefly picked it up when fighting Buu, retired from fighting AGAIN, and starts "lifting weights" to get back in shape and is now as strong as Frieza use to be?

You've gotta be kidding me man.

It depends whether we're going only from the original serialisation/DB/Z or if we're including Super.

In the former case, I agree. I think from the Namek saga onwards, none of the human characters really got much stronger, and Krillin and Yamcha probably got less powerful after the Cell arc. I see no reason to ever think they came close to base Freeza or even any Ginyu Force member other than Guldo. It was pretty much established that their ultimate biological limits were far below those of Saiyans, who seemed to grow indefinitely, and that Saiyans didn't stand a chance against Freeza unless they were Super Saiyans. Those were pretty solid boundaries that were never going to be broken by lifting heavier weights.

Having watched Super, though, given the new levels of power in SSG and SSB which incomparably dwarf everything that came before BoG/RoF, and then seeing the performances of these characters in the current arc, I don't see any way that any of these characters wouldn't now one-shot Namek Freeza.

[TheOne]

I'd say that between the start of Super and now full-blooded humans have already become much stronger than full power Freeza from DBZ.

From the end of the Freeza arc to the end of the Buu arc, I'd say Krillin and Ten peaked at about the same level as Vegeta when he first came to Earth, maybe around 20,000, with Yamcha and Roshi being much less than that. Humans basically couldn't keep up with Saiyans or Namekians at this point, even ultra powerful ones like Krillin who'd had his potential drawn out. At the start of Super these characters were still all about that level. By the Universe Survival arc Krillin, Ten, Roshi, along with Piccolo and 18, are probably all in the billions, at the very least they are much stronger than Super Buu.

Ummmm... What world are you living in? The humans are nowhere near Frieza in Namek

There has been zero evidence that any of them have gotten to that point.

You're telling me that Krillin, can fight Frieza from Namek saga? The same guy who took 7 years off from fighting, briefly picked it up when fighting Buu, retired from fighting AGAIN, and starts "lifting weights" to get back in shape and is now as strong as Frieza use to be?

You've gotta be kidding me man.

It depends whether we're going only from the original serialisation/DB/Z or if we're including Super.

In the former case, I agree. I think from the Namek saga onwards, none of the human characters really got much stronger, and Krillin and Yamcha probably got less powerful after the Cell arc. I see no reason to ever think they came close to base Freeza or even any Ginyu Force member other than Guldo. It was pretty much established that their ultimate biological limits were far below those of Saiyans, who seemed to grow indefinitely, and that Saiyans didn't stand a chance against Freeza unless they were Super Saiyans. Those were pretty solid boundaries that were never going to be broken by lifting heavier weights.

Having watched Super, though, given the new levels of power in SSG and SSB which incomparably dwarf everything that came before BoG/RoF, and then seeing the performances of these characters in the current arc, I don't see any way that any of these characters wouldn't now one-shot Namek Freeza.

When you current performance, what exactly are you referring to? None of them have accomplished any major battles to prove anything, fighting Frieza goons has always been a simple task (except for Roshi.. his sudden power.boost to make him relevant again is ust terrible writing..) Just because the ceiling of power has been raised doesn't mean they're going to get stronger too.

Tien is older than Goku. He's past his prime. There's no way any of them will really catch up to that level of power. Tiens debut in super, after years of continuous training, showed him fighting slightly on par with master Roshi. Not only that but he proved to be utterly useless in that fight with Gohan Piccolo and Goku. There's no way to know where current Gohan is in comparison to Namek saga Frieza, but you can't just assume tien has been able to reach that level of power that use to belong to the strongest being in the universe.

I changed my focus on Tien because he's the only human that continuously trains throughout z and super. He's pretty much reached his ceiling. Roshi and Krillin are in the same boat. There's nothing that suggests that they can get to the point that rivals the old emperor of the universe. I'm not a Frieza homer. Just pointing out exactly how strong Frieza really was.

[Lionel]

Tenshinhan is only 46 years old at the time of the current Super arc. By in-universe martial arts standards, he's fairly young. Roshi was still capable of improving during the middle segments of the original Dragon Ball -- he advanced from being less than the powerfully superior fighters in Baba's employ to earning a respectable third place position at the 22nd tournament at the ripe old age of 323.

No one expects for the humans to compare with the Saiyans or Piccolo, not when the existing resources that could help to facilitate accelerated power growth aren't being offered by the writer. But Tenshinhan and his fellow earthling fighters have already supplanted earthly limitations when they proved capable of undergoing King Kai's training. I'm sure if the evidence wasn't incontrovertibly put before our eyes you would have some disputing if the DB human body could endure the unearthly rigours of 10x normal gravity. We know the contrary to be true, though. Similarly, Krillin was shown to be capable of fighting at an advantage against a power level of 23,000 seen in Ginyu in Goku's body.

Any notions of a plateau exist to affirm the perceived boundaries of the human mundanity when compared against the alien fighters who are often perceived to be superior or incapable of being surpassed. When has any human undergone the same trials and enjoyed the type of training the human Z-fighters have received, though? Much of their "inherent" weakness stems from the limited opportunity for improvement during the original DB -- even Goku's peak DB power amounted to little against the first enemy to show themselves in DBZ.

[SJ158]

Tenshinhan is only 46 years old at the time of the current Super arc. By in-universe martial arts standards, he's fairly young. Roshi was still capable of improving during the middle segments of the original Dragon Ball -- he advanced from being less than the powerfully superior fighters in Baba's employ to earning a respectable third place position at the 22nd tournament at the ripe old age of 323.

No one expects for the humans to compare with the Saiyans or Piccolo, not when the existing resources that could help to facilitate accelerated power growth aren't being offered by the writer. But Tenshinhan and his fellow earthling fighters have already supplanted earthly limitations when they proved capable of undergoing King Kai's training. I'm sure if the evidence wasn't incontrovertibly put before our eyes you would have some disputing if the DB human body could endure the unearthly rigours of 10x normal gravity. We know the contrary to be true, though. Similarly, Krillin was shown to be capable of fighting at an advantage against a power level of 23,000 seen in Ginyu in Goku's body.

Any notions of a plateau exist to affirm the perceived boundaries of the human mundanity when compared against the alien fighters who are often perceived to be superior or incapable of being surpassed. When has any human undergone the same trials and enjoyed the type of training the human Z-fighters have received, though? Much of their "inherent" weakness stems from the limited opportunity for improvement during the original DB -- even Goku's peak DB power amounted to little against the first enemy to show themselves in DBZ.

This is another good point. So far weve only see Sayans hogging gravity chambers, space and time rooms etc.

[JulianStyles]

People seriously low ball the "Earthlings" with no credible evidence. Lets talk Android/Cell saga. Piccolo said dont show up if you dont think you can handle it. They all knew they were facing enemies far stronger than Goku on Namek at 150mil. Now if youre Tien,Krillin or Yamcha if the bar is set at 200mil. Why would you think you can make a difference at 1.5mil. I've done calculations. I have Tien around 10mil Krillin 6-8mil and Yamcha 4 mil. In the time where villians and main characters are approaching billions. My calculations still make them extremely weak.

But its absolutely idiotic you think they are still in Super only around 3rd form Frieza.

My guess is Krillin and Tenshinhan are about as strong as third form Freeza on Namek.

Yamcha is probably around Recoome level, maybe Burter/Jeice if we're being generous.

Thats impossible. How would Krillin give SSB Goku a struggle in a Kamehameha blast. Do you undersrand the gap between 3rd form Frieza and say SS right now?

Goku was confirmed holding back. And what Krillin relied on here was his own skills and wits, not pure physical strength. To say Krillin is even in the hundreds of millions let alone the billions is impossible. If Goku were 100% and totally intended on hurting Krillin, there would be no difficulty in doing so. Some fighters can win a fight with quick thinking on their feet and if they can fit in a few surprise attacks, bingo you may have a chance. Real life examples of this against foes much stronger than you. (although I know the gaps are not this massively huge in reality..... But this is Super....)

Holding back doesnt mean he was in his SSB state able to be as weak at 3rd form Frieza lol. All the Earthlings are in the high millions. Gokus base is over SS3 Gotenks. So Krillin giving him trouble and forcing him to go SS.I would say Krillins as strong as Majin Vegeta in the Buu arc

[Lord Beerus]

Honestly, with the approach that Super has taken, the sky is the limit for the Earthlings.

[YajirobiTheGreat]

Question: In your opinions, if Whis began to train the humans at the start of Dragon Ball up to the present with appropriate challenges, would the humans be God Level by now?

[Akyon]

As strong as Uub.

Uub is a reincarnation. While he's 100% human, genetically he's got a lot more room to grow than everyone else.

And also it's pretty much stated Uub is already as strong as Kid Buu since he's his reincarnation, which already puts him above SSJ3 level to begin with...and that's without training.

On that note...should there be a Perfect Cell tier guy out there now? Between Cell and Dabura did neither repent? What about the Cell Jrs? They had souls right?

Yakon? Pui Pui? Or is it because Goku specifically asked for a reincarnated Buu that he kept his power?

[TheOne]

Uub is a reincarnation. While he's 100% human, genetically he's got a lot more room to grow than everyone else.

And also it's pretty much stated Uub is already as strong as Kid Buu since he's his reincarnation, which already puts him above SSJ3 level to begin with...and that's without training.

On that note...should there be a Perfect Cell tier guy out there now? Between Cell and Dabura did neither repent? What about the Cell Jrs? They had souls right?

Yakon? Pui Pui? Or is it because Goku specifically asked for a reincarnated Buu that he kept his power?

Dabura was the strongest in the dark realm where he came from. So His situation is a little different. what I saw in the anime he did repent. I'm not exactly sure how someone as strong as Cell could just pop up out of nowhere throughout Freeza's reign and nobody know about it just yet.

He specifically asked for Buu to come back as a good person. That's why he's the exception.

[Lord Beerus]

Question: In your opinions, if Whis began to train the humans at the start of Dragon Ball up to the present with appropriate challenges, would the humans be God Level by now?

Honestly, I think they they could. Whis took Vegeta from SSJ2 to SSJB tier in six months, so anything can really happen. And before people say, "Saiyans have more potential than Earthlings." No. I don't but that any more. I used to, but when you see the likes of Android 17 and Roshi making ridiculous gains in strength from off-screen training, and lets not even get into all the nonsense boosts in strength that Piccolo gets in the manga, you realize "potential" is such a crapshoot in Dragon Ball. It's plot device that can be handed to anyone at any given time to suit the circumstances of the narrative. It's a literal roulette wheel when it comes to how much dormant power a certain character can tap into through specific circumstances. We've had zero hints that guys like Krillin, Tien and Roshi could make massive gains through something like Whis training, but if the plot needs a character to be relevant, their strength will bloat like nothing before it.

[precita]

and Roshi making ridiculous gains in strength from off-screen training.

Roshi really has't done anything so far to show much of an increase in strength. He took out some extremely weak Freeza henchmen that were probably barely above what he was in his prime, and we haven't seen him fight anyone in the tournament yet. I don't know where people seem to get the impression Roshi got so strong yet, it's not like he had an Android 17 moment.