Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[ArchedThunder]

Love this cut.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yeah the effects here were definitely a major step up from last week. The chit chat got to me this episode though wish they would start the Earth sub plot already.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

There were high points, especially at the end of the recruitment. However, on the whole, it has been 5 months of fairly consistently unremarkable episodes. Even if the show were to get better now, it's too little too late. The momentum is gone, the beginning of the tournament is done, and it's so boring. There's barely a story here, so this show needs to be fun to look at, and just isn't.

The average quality of episodes this arc has been much higher than previous arcs and very few of the episodes have actually been conservative, the improvements to the production have been clearly visible in nearly every episode. The only time we had a long string of conservative episodes was the 10 weeks between the last arc and this one, and that lead to us having the longest string of episodes with no massive dips in quality.

I'm not even that bothered by it anymore, but I don't think this sentiment is mine alone. Saying "just wait, it's eventually gonna get better" doesn't do much when that wait was supposed to be over last week. How long will it be? Another month? Two months? How long until everyone realizes they've wasted their time? (Which is essentially where I'm at.) You can't just delay gratification forever, there has to be tangible payoff eventually.

We've been getting a pretty consistent stream of new staff (Not just animators) these past few weeks, a fair few from Tiger Mask even. Looking at production timelines, episode titles and the staff we know, the tipping point will probably be somewhere from episode 101 to episode 104.
This is only the opening of the tournament, the opening of tournaments in Dragon Ball are never the highlight.

Why are you trying so hard to defend the Universal Survival arc, anyway? You are not even looking at it objectively. Every time someone dislike something, you try to back up Super.

[Ajay]

Love this cut.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

That was a nice scene - it was one of Tu's.

I'll stop procrastinating soon and update the catalogue, I promise~

I was gonna do it today but a thunderfly somehow got inside my monitor and died, so I spent ages trying to get it out, only to fail and lose all motivation to do anything.

[Nasryyy]

There were high points, especially at the end of the recruitment. However, on the whole, it has been 5 months of fairly consistently unremarkable episodes. Even if the show were to get better now, it's too little too late. The momentum is gone, the beginning of the tournament is done, and it's so boring. There's barely a story here, so this show needs to be fun to look at, and just isn't.

The average quality of episodes this arc has been much higher than previous arcs and very few of the episodes have actually been conservative, the improvements to the production have been clearly visible in nearly every episode. The only time we had a long string of conservative episodes was the 10 weeks between the last arc and this one, and that lead to us having the longest string of episodes with no massive dips in quality.

I'm not even that bothered by it anymore, but I don't think this sentiment is mine alone. Saying "just wait, it's eventually gonna get better" doesn't do much when that wait was supposed to be over last week. How long will it be? Another month? Two months? How long until everyone realizes they've wasted their time? (Which is essentially where I'm at.) You can't just delay gratification forever, there has to be tangible payoff eventually.

We've been getting a pretty consistent stream of new staff (Not just animators) these past few weeks, a fair few from Tiger Mask even. Looking at production timelines, episode titles and the staff we know, the tipping point will probably be somewhere from episode 101 to episode 104.
This is only the opening of the tournament, the opening of tournaments in Dragon Ball are never the highlight.

Why are you trying so hard to defend the Universal Survival arc, anyway? You are not even looking at it objectively. Every time someone dislike something, you try to back up Super.

What's wrong with defending the show that you love and pointing out the improvements super has got and how it progress, i mean all of what he's saying is correct

[ArchedThunder]

Why are you trying so hard to defend the Universal Survival arc, anyway? You are not even looking at it objectively.

I am looking at it objectively, with what we know, what we've seen, and what's been hinted at it makes sense that the animation will probably pick up in late July or early-mid August.

What's objective about someone claiming falsely that the last 5 months have been conservative, when in fact it's been the most consistent string of episodes the show has ever had, or being all glum because the opening of what looks to be a long tournament wasn't huge and bombastic? These opening episodes could have been better, I'm not denying that, but it's highly unlikely these represent how the rest of the arc is going to be. I would have loved an amazing looking opening to the tournament, but ultimately the important stuff for the arc isn't going to be the first few episodes of the tournament, so it makes sense that now is when some corners are going to be cut, but even then I think they're doing a good job of making sure the show doesn't drop to anywhere near the lows it had in previous arcs.
I'd also like to point out that I don't expect the show to suddenly become consistently amazing in a few weeks, just that I think the animation will pick up.

[A Man named RJ]

Objectively speaking super is "meh"

The plot is still a complete dumpster fire, and there are assloads of fake tension and suspense - I cant be the only one mad that we spent an entire episode with Goku not going SSJ until the end to "pace himself".... but then I ask the entire point of the SSJ training from the Cell arc was to make SSJ as easy as breathing right? so why did he take so long to activate SSJ Vanilla? And lets be honest, Goku should be much better able to detect opponents behind him, but he cant for some odd reason he can't. And, because the power scaling, and consistency of any technique that isnt a kamehameha in Dragon Ball is so broken and awful, Hunter x Hunter style sideline exposition feels so out of place. I'm keeping this part short because this is not the board for discussing plot, but I say this in service to the next point:

This tourney was written to DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG Instead of wasting 4 months on recruitment, why not just do something Dark Tournament style? The Dark tournament had conservative animation and non-conservative and was amazing! What I'm getting from this arc, animation wise is the colleseum in One Piece filled with the same shot of people screaming at the fighters and a lot of characters standing around doing nothing and talking as several implied fights go on in the background. As far as things go, this tourney just isnt really interesting, or visually impressive... it's just there. better than the beginning of Super, but boku no pico is better than the beginning of Super, so that's not really a compliment. It's a very fair sentiment at this point to just give up on super. It's very clear that aside from maybe the last episode or 2 this is going to be a continuation of mediocrity in animation and obvious scale-creep.

Sure the fate of the universes are at hand, but none of this arc feels personal enough to Goku's character or character progression for me to really care. In short, this forum here is the reason i still watch Super, and that's a very bad thing.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

People a cour of the recruitment arc is not a long time, ya'll acting like Toei have been hyping this for a year with 52 episodes or something. In a single sitting the entire recruitment arc can be done with and it feels absolutely fine, it only feels long cuz of this weekly wait that we clearly are not used to with DB, as kids we used to watch it 5 days a week and as adults we can binge the home video releases.

The arc should be judged when the arc is over, everyone here was crying after #33 aired yet after #38 this thread never felt so joyous. Quite a turn around in emtions after a few weeks.

Perhaps this is a problem with discussing a show this in depth every week? Honestly after next week's episode airs I think I may take a step back from Kanzenshuu, it is not a good experience after an episode airs.

[A Man named RJ]

[spoiler]People a cour of the recruitment arc is not a long time, ya'll acting like Toei have been hyping this for a year with 52 episodes or something. In a single sitting the entire recruitment arc can be done with and it feels absolutely fine, it only feels long cuz of this weekly wait that we clearly are not used to with DB, as kids we used to watch it 5 days a week and as adults we can binge the home video releases.

The arc should be judged when the arc is over, everyone here was crying after #33 aired yet after #38 this thread never felt so joyous. Quite a turn around in emtions after a few weeks.

Perhaps this is a problem with discussing a show this in depth every week? Honestly after next week's episode airs I think I may take a step back from Kanzenshuu, it is not a good experience after an episode airs.[/spoiler]

a cour is the length most shows get... yeah thats a long time in that perspective. lets also not forget the downtime arc, and the buildup to this tournament since the 40s

Still the problem here is the question of whether or not Toei can deliver on this arc

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What's objective about someone claiming falsely that the last 5 months have been conservative, when in fact it's been the most consistent string of episodes the show has ever had, or being all glum because the opening of what looks to be a long tournament wasn't huge and bombastic? These opening episodes could have been better, I'm not denying that, but it's highly unlikely these represent how the rest of the arc is going to be.

Just thought I should note that conservatism and consistency aren't antonyms, and in fact, have absolutely nothing to do with one another. No one will argue that the show is more consistent than ever, but by the same token, the highs aren't very high more often than not. I don't appreciate when people bend words to misrepresent my points, which were that delaying gratification isn't feasible indefinitely in a sea of generally unimpressive episodes, and that by not delivering on many fans expectations and leaving a very poor first impression for this tournament when the episodes especially rely on interesting movement, the momentum has effectively been killed. I'm really not even that bothered about it, but I think that's probably a consistent feeling throughout the internet, though it tends not to be articulated well.

The arc should be judged when the arc is over.

No. The shows are presented in serialized format, so it's fair to judge them that way. We can judge retrospectively when it's over.

[HeroR]

People a cour of the recruitment arc is not a long time, ya'll acting like Toei have been hyping this for a year with 52 episodes or something. In a single sitting the entire recruitment arc can be done with and it feels absolutely fine, it only feels long cuz of this weekly wait that we clearly are not used to with DB, as kids we used to watch it 5 days a week and as adults we can binge the home video releases.

The arc should be judged when the arc is over, everyone here was crying after #33 aired yet after #38 this thread never felt so joyous. Quite a turn around in emtions after a few weeks.

Perhaps this is a problem with discussing a show this in depth every week? Honestly after next week's episode airs I think I may take a step back from Kanzenshuu, it is not a good experience after an episode airs.

I have personally found Kanzenshuu to be the most negative forum. Epsoide 33 was generally well received, but this site treated it as the worst thing Super has done. The same last week. The opening of the tourument got overwhelming positive response with most not noticing the reused animation. Here, dumpster fire of negativity. Opinions and all, but it just isn't fun posting here.

[aaronWgamer]

Perhaps this is a problem with discussing a show this in depth every week? Honestly after next week's episode airs I think I may take a step back from Kanzenshuu, it is not a good experience after an episode airs.

Same. This thread is usually focused and mature but a couple of exceptions here and entire threads elsewhere are... a different story.

There is something inherently wrong with reaction based posts about a weekly series which keeps changing our minds as we learn more about it. It doesn't help that exposure to information comes in waves: livestreams, then subbed versions, then the following episodes can change people's perspective, etc.

I won't complain too much because people will always have the option to pace themselves when using this site, plus measures have already been put in place to keep the experience worthwhile.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I have personally found Kanzenshuu to be the most negative forum. Epsoide 33 was generally well received, but this site treated it as the worst thing Super has done. The same last week. The opening of the tournament got overwhelming positive response with most not noticing the reused animation. Here, dumpster fire of negativity. Opinions and all, but it just isn't fun posting here.

Positivity and negativity don't mean anything. We make points here, arguments. If you disagree, you can't just call something "positive" or "negative", because that's just a statement of feeling. You have to give legitimate agreements or disagreements, that's how logical discussions work, and the vast amount of people who understand that are what make Kanzenshuu the best place to discuss.

[dbs fanboy]

Objectively speaking super is "meh"

The plot is still a complete dumpster fire, and there are assloads of fake tension and suspense - I cant be the only one mad that we spent an entire episode with Goku not going SSJ until the end to "pace himself".... but then I ask the entire point of the SSJ training from the Cell arc was to make SSJ as easy as breathing right? so why did he take so long to activate SSJ Vanilla? And lets be honest, Goku should be much better able to detect opponents behind him, but he cant for some odd reason he can't. And, because the power scaling, and consistency of any technique that isnt a kamehameha in Dragon Ball is so broken and awful, Hunter x Hunter style sideline exposition feels so out of place. I'm keeping this part short because this is not the board for discussing plot, but I say this in service to the next point:

This tourney was written to DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG Instead of wasting 4 months on recruitment, why not just do something Dark Tournament style? The Dark tournament had conservative animation and non-conservative and was amazing! What I'm getting from this arc, animation wise is the colleseum in One Piece filled with the same shot of people screaming at the fighters and a lot of characters standing around doing nothing and talking as several implied fights go on in the background. As far as things go, this tourney just isnt really interesting, or visually impressive... it's just there. better than the beginning of Super, but boku no pico is better than the beginning of Super, so that's not really a compliment. It's a very fair sentiment at this point to just give up on super. It's very clear that aside from maybe the last episode or 2 this is going to be a continuation of mediocrity in animation and obvious scale-creep.

Sure the fate of the universes are at hand, but none of this arc feels personal enough to Goku's character or character progression for me to really care. In short, this forum here is the reason i still watch Super, and that's a very bad thing.

To be fair, while you have really good reasons to think this way, this seems more like something subjective. You implyed that you were being objective but at the same time, you were basing it on pure subjectivity.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Perhaps this is a problem with discussing a show this in depth every week? Honestly after next week's episode airs I think I may take a step back from Kanzenshuu, it is not a good experience after an episode airs.

Same. This thread is usually focused and mature but a couple of exceptions here and entire threads elsewhere are... a different story.

There is something inherently wrong with reaction based posts about a weekly series which keeps changing our minds as we learn more about it. It doesn't help that exposure to information comes in waves: livestreams, then subbed versions, then the following episodes can change people's perspective, etc.

I won't complain too much because people will always have the option to pace themselves when using this site, plus measures have already been put in place to keep the experience worthwhile.

Yes I agree and I do have more to say but it's probably not appropriate to get off topic here so I'll swing around and say this thread is still very fascinating to me, been avid follower of this thread since the Black arc and I am only still comfortable in being able to determine a couple of animators but I want to appreciate the people behind the animation I hear sad stories about the industry all the time so I want to know the names and the people behind the animation instead of the being blanket animator #1 etc. I dislike Kitano's work but I also feel kind of guilty for disliking his work too at the same time, it is a weird feeling.

Side note but recently everyone being stumped on the staff list and I am like that is me every week...

[HeroR]

I have personally found Kanzenshuu to be the most negative forum. Epsoide 33 was generally well received, but this site treated it as the worst thing Super has done. The same last week. The opening of the tournament got overwhelming positive response with most not noticing the reused animation. Here, dumpster fire of negativity. Opinions and all, but it just isn't fun posting here.

Positivity and negativity don't mean anything. We make points here, arguments. If you disagree, you can't just call something "positive" or "negative", because that's just a statement of feeling. You have to give legitimate agreements or disagreements, that's how logical discussions work, and the vast amount of people who understand that are what make Kanzenshuu the best place to discuss.

Most spoken on site is done in hypobolic and things more negative than what they are.

And for the record, I have been to places that are critical of Super and its issues. Guess what, they still nowhere as negative as this site.

[dbs fanboy]

I have personally found Kanzenshuu to be the most negative forum. Epsoide 33 was generally well received, but this site treated it as the worst thing Super has done. The same last week. The opening of the tournament got overwhelming positive response with most not noticing the reused animation. Here, dumpster fire of negativity. Opinions and all, but it just isn't fun posting here.

Positivity and negativity don't mean anything. We make points here, arguments. If you disagree, you can't just call something "positive" or "negative", because that's just a statement of feeling. You have to give legitimate agreements or disagreements, that's how logical discussions work, and the vast amount of people who understand that are what make Kanzenshuu the best place to discuss.

Most spoken on site is done in hypobolic and things more negative than what they are.

And for the record, I have been to places that are critical of Super and its issues. Guess what, they still nowhere as negative as this site.

Idk dude i've been in other websites as well and i find most of them much worse. I do think that people may be overreacting a little but still.


Now on topic, have anyone done a gif of the cat girl's beatdown? or Goku blasting Bergamo/Basil away?

[Burast]

I have personally found Kanzenshuu to be the most negative forum. Epsoide 33 was generally well received, but this site treated it as the worst thing Super has done. The same last week. The opening of the tournament got overwhelming positive response with most not noticing the reused animation. Here, dumpster fire of negativity. Opinions and all, but it just isn't fun posting here.

I can assure you that in other forums the opinions about Super are MUCH more negative, and most of the time, unlike here, without arguments or disrespectfully said.

[HeroR]

Idk dude i've been in other websites as well and i find most of them much worse. I do think that people may be overreacting a little but still.


Now on topic, have anyone done a gif of the cat girl's beatdown? or Goku blasting Bergamo/Basil away?

The website I generally visit are Neogaf that has a big and active Dragon Ball community, Reddit, and TV tropes. While they do have issues with Super, most of the response is positive. Like, I didn't know people has such wide issues with 97 until I came here since most missed the reused animation. And I will admit this thread is well informed, which is why I generally don't mind the more critical commentary here even if I personally disagree.

But I will end the topic here.

[A Man named RJ]

To be fair, while you have really good reasons to think this way, this seems more like something subjective. You implyed that you were being objective but at the same time, you were basing it on pure subjectivity.

The animation is objectively Bad. as a result of a documented troubled production history = Objective

[spoiler]The plot has no stakes, Goku gains nothing as a character for doing this tournament. Yes he has something to lose, but the biggest issue with power and scale creep - and an incredibly noticeable one at that is that is that is the lack of personal stakes. In writing, personal stakes are what makes storys so great, not scale of story. You have a collosal story with a hero who just does everything when the plot demands it with no room for error? well that's a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. In this case Goku who had character and ambition up until the end of the Cell Arc (I dont count the Boo arc, as a story it's obviously rushed) So each arc felt personal. What made the Friza arc so great was it's characters, and Goku's own Super Saiyan story arc. Remove those elements and just have BIG THING GO BOOM! and suddenly the arc is not interesting. This is why so many people despise Legend of Korra, and Naruto's 4th Great War arc.

This is something objective to the rules of writing. Want to know what else is objective? PLOT HOLES!
_______________
without going into detail as to avoid a plot discussion in an animation thread, i'll plainly state that there are a lot of em' but the most annoyng of these is the power-levels of the characters being so plainly inconsistent without the assistance of personal head-canon.

Internal logic is paramount to a well-written story. Dragon ball has next to none. it's so bad that fans now reactively say : "the power scaling in dragon ball has never made sense"
or when translated "The biggest element to dragon ball, it's characters and their hierarchy against one another is not at all internally consistent" In this episode, Why did goku not at any point in this fight think of going SSJ? if even for a moment since it shouldn't drain him? Well the answer is: To prolong the episodes.

This is a META answer: it has nothing to do with the internal logic of the series, it's only to do with the producers dragging things out. Forced drama is forced because we KNOW how this fight should go down, but elements outside of the plot are stopping it from doing so. Goku is in a battle Royale where the situation could change at any point in time yet this fighting genius is screwing around here? So on top of dumbing him down substantially from his previous incarnations, they're only doing it has to make the plot go.
So the plot and writing are objectively bad. plot elements have no rhyme or reason, and it tells that this series only exists as fan-service, rather than to stand on it's own two feet

Super isnt Dragon Ball.... it's Dragon Ball's Nephew that the family doesnt like to invite to parties because he's so strange

There's some good; the lighting and scenery especially in this arc has been A plus material. The storyboards have always been pretty interesting The direction at least is ambitious and great. There is a lot of hype and buildup as well so if you're willing to turn your brain off it's a fun little ride.

Still, the execution is slow and filled with filler even for anime, the animation is Janky and often incomplete, lacking inbetweens and impact. the music is unfitting and goofy, more befitting a 90s fighting gamethan a 70s martial arts movie. Much less even an anime epic. Sure there have been OST updates to alleviate the fact, and there are quite a few gems in the original's rough but it's still a long road. not the worst OST of all time, and it's grown on me, but certainly not one of the best either. Finally, underwhelming SFX which they had to update they were so bad. There simply isn't much objective good to be had here.[/spoiler]
Making it a mediocre show at best with a TON of "hype" but hype doesn't make something good. Sword Art Online can attest to that. If you enjoy it, Go ahead, i do at certain points, but I could never call DBS a good show.