So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Akyon » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:27 am

Shinda Forever wrote:
SsjCookie wrote: Krillin will be the underdog and will have some awesome fights, but will get beaten eventually.
I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.
I don't know in what world YOU are living in, but disqualification is not the same as destroyed, since one implies he can't fight anymore and one implies removal before he's actually physically unable to fight.

The saiyans surpassing everyone is just a quirk of the show. Not sure why you think Hit is safe from that. Gohan's power seems to fluctuate randomly arc to arc so don't be surprised if you end up eating them words.

As for Goku, well, this topic was posted at the beginning of the tournament and Vegeta and 18 both got kos last episode(albeit off screen for 18)Time will tell if it's Goku Time or if guys like Tenshinhan gets a turn in the spotlight.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Jigurashi » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:16 pm

Pretty silly to me to just start saying everything is Goku centered when we're only two episodes in. Not to mention as the main character he's going to be getting a lot of screen time, and that should be expected. With that said, no he shouldn't be everywhere and doesn't need to have a huge role in every episode and other characters need some love too. However the complaint is pretty silly to me at the moment since this tournament just started, Vegeta got a lot of focus this past episode, and the next episode doesn't even look to be focusing on Goku all that much. When Goku is the only one having any meaningful fights (which he hasn't so far since Vegeta got one too), then this complaint will actually mean something. At the moment, this is just some people overreacting.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:23 pm

Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
SsjCookie wrote: Krillin will be the underdog and will have some awesome fights, but will get beaten eventually.
I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.
I don't know in what world YOU are living in, but disqualification is not the same as destroyed, since one implies he can't fight anymore and one implies removal before he's actually physically unable to fight.

The saiyans surpassing everyone is just a quirk of the show. Not sure why you think Hit is safe from that. Gohan's power seems to fluctuate randomly arc to arc so don't be surprised if you end up eating them words.

As for Goku, well, this topic was posted at the beginning of the tournament and Vegeta and 18 both got kos last episode(albeit off screen for 18)Time will tell if it's Goku Time or if guys like Tenshinhan gets a turn in the spotlight.
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.

About the saiyans surpassing everyone: you must have missed Golden Frieza, in just 4 months, he made more gains than the great saiyajins in an entire life of hard training.
Last edited by Shinda Forever on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:39 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.
I don't know in what world YOU are living in, but disqualification is not the same as destroyed, since one implies he can't fight anymore and one implies removal before he's actually physically unable to fight.

The saiyans surpassing everyone is just a quirk of the show. Not sure why you think Hit is safe from that. Gohan's power seems to fluctuate randomly arc to arc so don't be surprised if you end up eating them words.

As for Goku, well, this topic was posted at the beginning of the tournament and Vegeta and 18 both got kos last episode(albeit off screen for 18)Time will tell if it's Goku Time or if guys like Tenshinhan gets a turn in the spotlight.
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by SansrivaaL » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:39 pm

Saturnine wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:
Saturnine wrote: No, that's not the same. You sarcastically made fun of a dude just because he complained about Goku getting as much spotlight as he has. I said his complaints were unfounded (because next eps are going to deal with the side cast), but he had every right to feel the way he did. Whether or not Goku is the main character is irrelevant, since it's an artbitrary designation. Just take Naruto for example, lots of supporting and secondary characters got more than a fair share of spotlight in that manga, and I never saw anyone complain "but y no more Naruto, he the main character ffs!!!!"
I'm not making fun of anything or anyone but sure whatever floats your bubble.
Goku being the main character is relevant and him literally starting this whole mess grants him the center stage, its others getting a focus thats the bonus, and I dont see the need to use the Naruto one since Naruto still gets arguably the best scenes and roles in there (yes, better than Sasuke, and I heard a lot of people complain that it lacked Naruto when there was too much Sasuke in it), its weird complaining about the main character getting the center stage when he's the MAIN character.
I don't think it would be a "bonus", it would in fact be a requirement. Unless you want another GT.
Its a bonus, the term MAINCHARACTER is there for a reason.
Yeah, and not everyone likes Dragon Ball for the main character specifically. Nor does the main character have to appeal to everyone. Also, Goku is not a titular character, so focus can be taken off him with impunity, unlike Naruto or say, Harry Potter (btw I know no person who would say that Harry Potter is their favorite Harry Potter character).

Also, Goku was used very sparingly throughout the entirety of Z. No one said his role couldn't be shifted to a more background one if the writers insisted on it.
Obviously yeah, those people will need to live with it, Goku has the excuse of being the main character, loving or hating him has nothing to do with it, as the main guy he has all the rights to have spotlights on him here and there, why is it a problem or wrong when the main character gets his obvious screentime?

If you view it like that then sure but right now he's at the center of things because its him that started this arc.

PS I know people that has Harry as their favorite character, but most of them said its because of his looks... guess thats a fail in my part, but that doesnt mean theres no one out there that likes the character for what the character is.
Shinda Forever wrote: He never saw Naruto, One Piece or Saint Seiya and obviously, he wants another GT failure.
Oh so close, never watched Saint Seiya and dropped OP because of Luffy being full of shit but I completed Naruto up till his and Hinata's wedding. Tho I wouldnt mind another GT at all so long as they dont shrink Goku again.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:03 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
Akyon wrote:
I don't know in what world YOU are living in, but disqualification is not the same as destroyed, since one implies he can't fight anymore and one implies removal before he's actually physically unable to fight.

The saiyans surpassing everyone is just a quirk of the show. Not sure why you think Hit is safe from that. Gohan's power seems to fluctuate randomly arc to arc so don't be surprised if you end up eating them words.

As for Goku, well, this topic was posted at the beginning of the tournament and Vegeta and 18 both got kos last episode(albeit off screen for 18)Time will tell if it's Goku Time or if guys like Tenshinhan gets a turn in the spotlight.
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:

SansrivaaL wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote: I'm not making fun of anything or anyone but sure whatever floats your bubble.
Goku being the main character is relevant and him literally starting this whole mess grants him the center stage, its others getting a focus thats the bonus, and I dont see the need to use the Naruto one since Naruto still gets arguably the best scenes and roles in there (yes, better than Sasuke, and I heard a lot of people complain that it lacked Naruto when there was too much Sasuke in it), its weird complaining about the main character getting the center stage when he's the MAIN character.


Its a bonus, the term MAINCHARACTER is there for a reason.
Yeah, and not everyone likes Dragon Ball for the main character specifically. Nor does the main character have to appeal to everyone. Also, Goku is not a titular character, so focus can be taken off him with impunity, unlike Naruto or say, Harry Potter (btw I know no person who would say that Harry Potter is their favorite Harry Potter character).

Also, Goku was used very sparingly throughout the entirety of Z. No one said his role couldn't be shifted to a more background one if the writers insisted on it.
Obviously yeah, those people will need to live with it, Goku has the excuse of being the main character, loving or hating him has nothing to do with it, as the main guy he has all the rights to have spotlights on him here and there, why is it a problem or wrong when the main character gets his obvious screentime?

If you view it like that then sure but right now he's at the center of things because its him that started this arc.

PS I know people that has Harry as their favorite character, but most of them said its because of his looks... guess thats a fail in my part, but that doesnt mean theres no one out there that likes the character for what the character is.
Shinda Forever wrote: He never saw Naruto, One Piece or Saint Seiya and obviously, he wants another GT failure.
Oh so close, never watched Saint Seiya and dropped OP because of Luffy being full of shit but I completed Naruto up till his and Hinata's wedding. Tho I wouldnt mind another GT at all so long as they dont shrink Goku again.
I knew it, you really loved GT. I advise you to watch Saint Seiya, maybe, you will like it.
Last edited by Shinda Forever on Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:06 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
I mean I'm not taking it personally, I just mean people who like his character might be offended. He is a cartoon so its not a big deal I'm just saying..a lot of characters have weird designs.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:08 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
I mean I'm not taking it personally, I just mean people who like his character might be offended. He is a cartoon so its not a big deal I'm just saying..a lot of characters have weird designs.
Ok, but, since his fans were calling Tenshinhan baldy, i thought they wouldn't mind if i call him bald midget, but if it offends them i won't say it anymore ok. :thumbup:

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
I mean I'm not taking it personally, I just mean people who like his character might be offended. He is a cartoon so its not a big deal I'm just saying..a lot of characters have weird designs.
Ok, but, since his fans were calling Tenshinhan baldy, i thought they wouldn't mind if i call him bald midget, but if it offends them i won't say it anymore ok. :thumbup:

They are both bald :lol: so yeah.

You can call them whatever you want of course I was just throwing that in.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:41 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
I mean I'm not taking it personally, I just mean people who like his character might be offended. He is a cartoon so its not a big deal I'm just saying..a lot of characters have weird designs.
Ok, but, since his fans were calling Tenshinhan baldy, i thought they wouldn't mind if i call him bald midget, but if it offends them i won't say it anymore ok. :thumbup:

They are both bald :lol: so yeah.

You can call them whatever you want of course I was just throwing that in.
Ok. :lol: :clap:

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Akyon » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:32 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
Actually it IS genuinely pretty annoying speaking as a Krillin fan. At least for me, I can't talk for the others.

I don't particularly care for most of Universe 6 but I don't refer to Frost as "OC, Do not steal", nor Caulifla as "Mary Sue-per Saiyan", Cabba as "Dull Gohan" or Hit as "Bland Assassin 2.0/Stoic rival number 876/Jiren's Whipping boy/Champa's Messenger Boy". So yeah, I'd genuinely appreciate just referring to him as Krillin once in a while Shinda rather than this constant barrage. I haven't got a clue why you hate him with amount of fervour as Krillin's a pretty inoffensive character overall. Maybe PM me to explain because I really don't get the hatred for the character with THIS amount of passion and I don't want to derail this thread further than this if that's cool.

Thanks in advance, and I do appreciate it.

I also don't buy for a second Krillin fans ever referred to Tenshinhan as "Baldy", much less as an insult considering Krillin's the most famous bald character in the series. That'd be like Piccolo fans referring to Pikkon as "the green guy". :lol:

As for what you put; no, I'm under no delusions Hit would easily defeat him, nor Frost.
But by that logic there's no point having anyone in this tournament outside Goku, Hit, Jiren, Vegeta, Frieza, Frost, Toppo and maybe Caulifla at a push since it's likely no one can stand up to the rest. Roshi, Tien, 18 and even Piccolo might as well jump off now less one of those guys decide to pick them off.

In that scenario, it really would become a very Goku-centric arc. Which brings us to the topic at hand!

Episode 98 did focus a lot on Goku and Vegeta, which unfortunately is par for the course with the only saiyan relief being from Frieza, but I'm expecting...or hoping...every single U7 member at least gets one half decent showing before their inevitable defeat. Maybe an episode dedicated to them. Hell, let Tien have an episode; he really got screwed in the recruitment section.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
Actually it IS genuinely pretty annoying speaking as a Krillin fan. At least for me, I can't talk for the others.

I don't particularly care for most of Universe 6 but I don't refer to Frost as "OC, Do not steal", nor Caulifla as "Mary Sue-per Saiyan", Cabba as "Dull Gohan" or Hit as "Bland Assassin 2.0/Stoic rival number 876/Jiren's Whipping boy/Champa's Messenger Boy". So yeah, I'd genuinely appreciate just referring to him as Krillin once in a while Shinda rather than this constant barrage. I haven't got a clue why you hate him with amount of fervour as Krillin's a pretty inoffensive character overall. Maybe PM me to explain because I really don't get the hatred for the character with THIS amount of passion and I don't want to derail this thread further than this if that's cool.

Thanks in advance, and I do appreciate it.

I also don't buy for a second Krillin fans ever referred to Tenshinhan as "Baldy", much less as an insult considering Krillin's the most famous bald character in the series. That'd be like Piccolo fans referring to Pikkon as "the green guy". :lol:

As for what you put; no, I'm under no delusions Hit would easily defeat him, nor Frost.
But by that logic there's no point having anyone in this tournament outside Goku, Hit, Jiren, Vegeta, Frieza, Frost, Toppo and maybe Caulifla at a push since it's likely no one can stand up to the rest. Roshi, Tien, 18 and even Piccolo might as well jump off now less one of those guys decide to pick them off.

In that scenario, it really would become a very Goku-centric arc. Which brings us to the topic at hand!

Episode 98 did focus a lot on Goku and Vegeta, which unfortunately is par for the course with the only saiyan relief being from Frieza, but I'm expecting...or hoping...every single U7 member at least gets one half decent showing before their inevitable defeat. Maybe an episode dedicated to them. Hell, let Tien have an episode; he really got screwed in the recruitment section.
I mean I believe Krillin fans have but its using the actions of a few against an entire group of people which is more or less how fear mongering groups operate, to paint the example of a couple people as the actions of a whole group.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Torturephile » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:30 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
It is the same shit, he will be kicked out of the tournament before everyone else in team 7. Besides, do you think Frost and Hitto and many others wouldn't destroy him? The bald midget is a weakling, he would be destroyed sooner or later.
Gohan is just ultimate and Hitto is on Goku's ssj blue level, therefore, Hitto will destroy him easily.
Gohan was left behind, he can't compete with ssj blue tier fighters.
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
We could call Hit "The Penishead", or "The Dickhead".
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Kanassa » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:05 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote: The sarcasm was meant to be cringy, and why are you making it sound like I'm implying other characters shouldnt get a focus?
You're the one who implied complaining about the "main character getting focus" is wrong. Well in this case it's quite justified, as the team consists of 10 people, so there can hardly be a better opportunity to showcase them all.

That such complaints are basically hysteria is another matter - other fighters are coming in the following weeks, so yeah.
Its been two episodes.
Two episodes out of 21, with 18 of them being focused on characters other than goku.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 pm

Torturephile wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
We could call Hit "The Penishead", or "The Dickhead".
He doesn't have a Penishead, but, yes, you could call him the way you want, but, the bald midget head looks like a big bald bison ball, but, we could call him conehead or nuthead. What do you think? Do you like it? :clap: :clap: :clap:
In the end, you can't deny Hitto would crush him like a bug isn't it?
Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Its really annoying when you go around calling him the bald midget. He has a f'ing name. How would you like it if people called you by your negative physical traits?
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
Actually it IS genuinely pretty annoying speaking as a Krillin fan. At least for me, I can't talk for the others.

I don't particularly care for most of Universe 6 but I don't refer to Frost as "OC, Do not steal", nor Caulifla as "Mary Sue-per Saiyan", Cabba as "Dull Gohan" or Hit as "Bland Assassin 2.0/Stoic rival number 876/Jiren's Whipping boy/Champa's Messenger Boy". So yeah, I'd genuinely appreciate just referring to him as Krillin once in a while Shinda rather than this constant barrage. I haven't got a clue why you hate him with amount of fervour as Krillin's a pretty inoffensive character overall. Maybe PM me to explain because I really don't get the hatred for the character with THIS amount of passion and I don't want to derail this thread further than this if that's cool.

Thanks in advance, and I do appreciate it.

I also don't buy for a second Krillin fans ever referred to Tenshinhan as "Baldy", much less as an insult considering Krillin's the most famous bald character in the series. That'd be like Piccolo fans referring to Pikkon as "the green guy". :lol:

As for what you put; no, I'm under no delusions Hit would easily defeat him, nor Frost.
But by that logic there's no point having anyone in this tournament outside Goku, Hit, Jiren, Vegeta, Frieza, Frost, Toppo and maybe Caulifla at a push since it's likely no one can stand up to the rest. Roshi, Tien, 18 and even Piccolo might as well jump off now less one of those guys decide to pick them off.

In that scenario, it really would become a very Goku-centric arc. Which brings us to the topic at hand!

Episode 98 did focus a lot on Goku and Vegeta, which unfortunately is par for the course with the only saiyan relief being from Frieza, but I'm expecting...or hoping...every single U7 member at least gets one half decent showing before their inevitable defeat. Maybe an episode dedicated to them. Hell, let Tien have an episode; he really got screwed in the recruitment section.
I don't hate Krillin, i only think that he has a terrible character design and i find surprising that they were trying to make him some kind of a star in the recruitment arc. I think that he is a funny character and Krillin's recruitment episodes were very well done. If you don't buy that they referred to him as baldy, there is nothing i can do about it, either way, i don't care about Tenshinhan either and it is normal to call him the way you want.
Now, i never said there is no point to bring Krillin and the others to the tournament, i defended the opposite, therefore, what you said makes no sense. I don't think that Krillin is the most famous bald character in the series.
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. :lol: :lol: :lol: Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine. :clap: :clap:
Actually it IS genuinely pretty annoying speaking as a Krillin fan. At least for me, I can't talk for the others.

I don't particularly care for most of Universe 6 but I don't refer to Frost as "OC, Do not steal", nor Caulifla as "Mary Sue-per Saiyan", Cabba as "Dull Gohan" or Hit as "Bland Assassin 2.0/Stoic rival number 876/Jiren's Whipping boy/Champa's Messenger Boy". So yeah, I'd genuinely appreciate just referring to him as Krillin once in a while Shinda rather than this constant barrage. I haven't got a clue why you hate him with amount of fervour as Krillin's a pretty inoffensive character overall. Maybe PM me to explain because I really don't get the hatred for the character with THIS amount of passion and I don't want to derail this thread further than this if that's cool.

Thanks in advance, and I do appreciate it.

I also don't buy for a second Krillin fans ever referred to Tenshinhan as "Baldy", much less as an insult considering Krillin's the most famous bald character in the series. That'd be like Piccolo fans referring to Pikkon as "the green guy". :lol:

As for what you put; no, I'm under no delusions Hit would easily defeat him, nor Frost.
But by that logic there's no point having anyone in this tournament outside Goku, Hit, Jiren, Vegeta, Frieza, Frost, Toppo and maybe Caulifla at a push since it's likely no one can stand up to the rest. Roshi, Tien, 18 and even Piccolo might as well jump off now less one of those guys decide to pick them off.

In that scenario, it really would become a very Goku-centric arc. Which brings us to the topic at hand!

Episode 98 did focus a lot on Goku and Vegeta, which unfortunately is par for the course with the only saiyan relief being from Frieza, but I'm expecting...or hoping...every single U7 member at least gets one half decent showing before their inevitable defeat. Maybe an episode dedicated to them. Hell, let Tien have an episode; he really got screwed in the recruitment section.
I mean I believe Krillin fans have but its using the actions of a few against an entire group of people which is more or less how fear mongering groups operate, to paint the example of a couple people as the actions of a whole group.
Can you give examples of fear mongering groups that you are referring to?
Last edited by Shinda Forever on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Akyon » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:01 pm

Shinda Forever wrote:
I don't hate Krillin, i only think that he has a terrible character design and sucks as a character in every sense and i find sad that they were trying to make him some kind of star in the recruitment arc. I think he is funny as hell like when baby Trunks looked at his face and started laughing his ass off.
Well, you refered to him as Krillin. I'll take it.

Personally I think Hit's pretty bland, outside his powers as neat as they are, and he could really do with some character expansion. Hopefully we get that. There's potential(why does he want to travel to other universes anyway?), but right now he's pretty flat as a character to me.

Meanwhile for me Krillin's character arc from early Dragonball to where he is mid Z is one of the best in the series. It's not as hammered over your head as either Piccolo or Vegeta's character arcs, but seeing him go from the cowardly pervert, underhandedly cheating to try and win duels to a man who risks life and limb to keep his best friend's son alive as well as a random namekian child on Namek is quite the change whilst remaining pretty natural feeling with a slow character development burn. Easily the most relatable and 'normal' reoccurring character making him the audience surrogate in most situations where everyone else is a big dumb meathead needing to satisfy their fight boner when smarter and more logical options are available.

But hey; to each their own. Even amongst Dragonball, fans have very different tastes on what they like. Some like Broly because he punches really really hard. Some like the history of characters of yesteryear.

Which, on topic again, is why I desperately want to see guys like Roshi and Tien get a moment of importance. Bringing Roshi back after all this time would be really pointless if he doesn't get a moment in the spotlight. Character has a rich history and a backstory that predates even early Dragonball by a HUGE amount. It'd be neat to learn something about his past here, but I doubt we'll get much focus on that before we go right back to Roshi perv jokes again.

....how long do we estimate until Roshi is back to his perv jokes again?
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Shinda Forever » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:15 pm

Akyon wrote:
Shinda Forever wrote:
I don't hate Krillin, i only think that he has a terrible character design and sucks as a character in every sense and i find sad that they were trying to make him some kind of star in the recruitment arc. I think he is funny as hell like when baby Trunks looked at his face and started laughing his ass off.
Well, you refered to him as Krillin. I'll take it.

Personally I think Hit's pretty bland, outside his powers as neat as they are, and he could really do with some character expansion. Hopefully we get that. There's potential(why does he want to travel to other universes anyway?), but right now he's pretty flat as a character to me.

Meanwhile for me Krillin's character arc from early Dragonball to where he is mid Z is one of the best in the series. It's not as hammered over your head as either Piccolo or Vegeta's character arcs, but seeing him go from the cowardly pervert, underhandedly cheating to try and win duels to a man who risks life and limb to keep his best friend's son alive as well as a random namekian child on Namek is quite the change whilst remaining pretty natural feeling with a slow character development burn. Easily the most relatable and 'normal' reoccurring character making him the audience surrogate in most situations where everyone else is a big dumb meathead needing to satisfy their fight boner when smarter and more logical options are available.

But hey; to each their own. Even amongst Dragonball, fans have very different tastes on what they like. Some like Broly because he punches really really hard. Some like the history of characters of yesteryear.

Which, on topic again, is why I desperately want to see guys like Roshi and Tien get a moment of importance. Bringing Roshi back after all this time would be really pointless if he doesn't get a moment in the spotlight. Character has a rich history and a backstory that predates even early Dragonball by a HUGE amount. It'd be neat to learn something about his past here, but I doubt we'll get much focus on that before we go right back to Roshi perv jokes again.

....how long do we estimate until Roshi is back to his perv jokes again?
Yes, so far they made Hitto a stoic character like Tenshinhan, Piccolo or Vegeta. You can call it bland if you want, but the truth is that Hitto was only involved in a tournament, he still is a young character, but, do you want my opinion?
I think that Hitto will be destroyed in this tournament, because, it seems clear that they don't know how to build a character like him. We basically don't know anything about his past, his race, nothing. he did nothing in the recruitment arc, they chose to waste time with the female saiyajins who are much weaker than Hitto. We don't know who is the leader in the U6.
One thing is certain, Hitto's abilities are awesome and he wins battles with skill and that makes him great and admirable.
Everything you said about Krillin is all true, he really was developed as a character, but, underused over the series.
On topic again, i don't think Tenshinhan will have a moment of importance in this tournament, i think he will be ignored and reduced to some kikohos but we will see. I hope to be wrong.
Last edited by Shinda Forever on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:18 pm

Lionel wrote:
Actually, we have seen on at least occasion the roles being reversed with Goku acting as the proverbial damsel in distress who is awaiting for some gallant knight to rescue him. In this exact situation, though, it's Goku being relieved of his torture session courtesy of Oozaru Vegeta by Gohan and Krillin. No one can say that the the Saiyan arc Vegeta fight wasn't a team effort because everyone contributed in a meaningfully tangible way which made a difference all throughout. What separates that occasion from, say, Vegeta momentarily distracting Cell for Gohan is that the main fighting force of the time, Goku, was pretty much down for the count. The second half of that fight was committed to everyone still alive besides Goku doing everything they can to stay alive while improvising ways to chip away at Vegeta's seemingly unstoppable might. It's true that Goku helped steer this segment fight along with incidents like bequeathing Krillin with the Spirit Bomb and directing Oozaru Gohan's attention towards Vegeta, but all of that was strictly tactical in nature.

You don't see such levels of proactivtiy from the subsidiary characters in overwhelming an antagonist except for Zamasu who was brought to his knees and executed by Future Trunks.
I'll start my reply with repeating myself. "Plagued this series since the Frieza arc."

The saiyan arc, as I had already pointed out, was the last time the trope was used effectively. This was primarily because Goku had a personal connection to the saiyan and like every other arc was doing something while in Otherworld. Infact this is a case of the anime filler really helping. Likewise as you point out, the Goku is our Savior is subverted because Goku cannot beat Vegeta alone.

But then we skip to the Frieza arc. Goku is not the main character of the Frieza arc, its Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta. So Goku swooping in to save the day completely undercuts their journey as characters, save Vegeta's. The Ginyu Force and his fight with them serve as nothing but padding to make sure Goku has something to do on Namek. Once they are dealt with Goku is once again taken out of the plot just so he can swoop in and save the day AGAIN. In both cases Goku has no connection to whats going on in the story and it really hurts the narrative. Its like Superman turning up out of the blue in a Batman story and curbstomping the bad guy. While his fight with Ginyu is just padding, what happens with Frieza is just sad for most of the other characters. Gohan and Krillin give it there all and do nothing. Piccolo comes back from the dead, puts the whole plan at risk and even gets a new power up......all for it to be worthless. From the opening fight with Frieza to the point he takes his final form, everything that happens is just an utter waste of time because in reality they have zero chance of actually winning and are only alive because Frieza is screwing around. But the single worst part is what that means for the beginning of Goku and Frieza's relationship. Goku dose not know Frieza, he dose not care that he blew up Vegeta and killed his farther, Goku just thinks Frieza as a strong, bad person who he's heard a lot about. Likewise Frieza dose not know or care who Goku is, Goku is some random jackass in orange and blue who wants to fight him. Never in all my life have I ever seen such a bland beginning to an ultimate rivalry. The main hero and villain have almost no idea who the fuck the other is, they have had no interactions of any kind up to this point to begin building any kind of relationship and they are almost completely apathetic to each-other, especially on Frieza's part. In every arc before this, save the first, Goku and his foe always had some connection, not here. Yet despite all that, Goku is the one to battle Frieza in the end, sole by virtue of being the main character. From a narrative stand point it takes away almost all the stories build up and throws it away. All the other characters hard work has no pay off and they get relegated to the side lines. Vegeta only gets a pay of because he gets killed. The only saving grace for this is how Goku and Frieza's relationship would develop beyond this point.

The Android arc is just as bad. Goku is put in a coma thanks to the heart virus and he's out of the arc proper until the Cell games. During that time the he dose one helpful thing, the rest he just stands and watchs or is training in an isolated location AGAIN. Now everything, and I do mean everything, after Goku gets sick is made pointless by Goku and Gohan at the end of the arc. The only single thing that helps is moving Goku to kami house. Apart from that, the caste could have literally sat on their assess all that time and nothing would change. Goku could just wake up, go into the chamber with Gohan and the story would play out the same. All the hard work Piccolo, Tien, Trunks and Vegeta put in is rendered utterly pointless. And once again Goku has barely any connection to the main threat. Cell just wants to kill him because thats what he was made to do and he wants to fight the strongest. Goku is in almost exactly the same position he was on Namek, Goku speaks to Cell once before he become's perfect and saves his friend from getting hurt, creating a bare minimum connection between the two beforehand. But then we have Gohan come in and do the exact same thing to Goku! While the ending manages to give them both some payoff, apart from throwing a very small bone to Vegeta, the the rest of the caste are left out in the cold again. The anime did fix this however.

The Buu Saga what can I say that has not already been said. The second Super Buu absorbs Gohan, Goku steps in and pulls the rug right out from under his sons and Piccolo AGAIN. The one saving grace is Vegeta's involvement and development.

Those are 3 of Z's 4 arcs and in each of them having Goku taken out of the story only served to make everyone elses hard work look pointless. Say what you will about GT but at least by focusing just on Goku he feels like a part of his own story and he never steals anyone elses thunder. In Super the only time they really dropped the ball hard was Piccolo and Buu in the U6 tournament, they were utterly wasted there and Vegeta's death at the hands of Frieza in RoF. In every other arc the characters they included did something relevant that was not undercut by Goku.

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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:45 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Actually, we have seen on at least occasion the roles being reversed with Goku acting as the proverbial damsel in distress who is awaiting for some gallant knight to rescue him. In this exact situation, though, it's Goku being relieved of his torture session courtesy of Oozaru Vegeta by Gohan and Krillin. No one can say that the the Saiyan arc Vegeta fight wasn't a team effort because everyone contributed in a meaningfully tangible way which made a difference all throughout. What separates that occasion from, say, Vegeta momentarily distracting Cell for Gohan is that the main fighting force of the time, Goku, was pretty much down for the count. The second half of that fight was committed to everyone still alive besides Goku doing everything they can to stay alive while improvising ways to chip away at Vegeta's seemingly unstoppable might. It's true that Goku helped steer this segment fight along with incidents like bequeathing Krillin with the Spirit Bomb and directing Oozaru Gohan's attention towards Vegeta, but all of that was strictly tactical in nature.

You don't see such levels of proactivtiy from the subsidiary characters in overwhelming an antagonist except for Zamasu who was brought to his knees and executed by Future Trunks.
I'll start my reply with repeating myself. "Plagued this series since the Frieza arc."

The saiyan arc, as I had already pointed out, was the last time the trope was used effectively. This was primarily because Goku had a personal connection to the saiyan and like every other arc was doing something while in Otherworld. Infact this is a case of the anime filler really helping. Likewise as you point out, the Goku is our Savior is subverted because Goku cannot beat Vegeta alone.

But then we skip to the Frieza arc. Goku is not the main character of the Frieza arc, its Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta. So Goku swooping in to save the day completely undercuts their journey as characters, save Vegeta's. The Ginyu Force and his fight with them serve as nothing but padding to make sure Goku has something to do on Namek. Once they are dealt with Goku is once again taken out of the plot just so he can swoop in and save the day AGAIN. In both cases Goku has no connection to whats going on in the story and it really hurts the narrative. Its like Superman turning up out of the blue in a Batman story and curbstomping the bad guy. While his fight with Ginyu is just padding, what happens with Frieza is just sad for most of the other characters. Gohan and Krillin give it there all and do nothing. Piccolo comes back from the dead, puts the whole plan at risk and even gets a new power up......all for it to be worthless. From the opening fight with Frieza to the point he takes his final form, everything that happens is just an utter waste of time because in reality they have zero chance of actually winning and are only alive because Frieza is screwing around. But the single worst part is what that means for the beginning of Goku and Frieza's relationship. Goku dose not know Frieza, he dose not care that he blew up Vegeta and killed his farther, Goku just thinks Frieza as a strong, bad person who he's heard a lot about. Likewise Frieza dose not know or care who Goku is, Goku is some random jackass in orange and blue who wants to fight him. Never in all my life have I ever seen such a bland beginning to an ultimate rivalry. The main hero and villain have almost no idea who the fuck the other is, they have had no interactions of any kind up to this point to begin building any kind of relationship and they are almost completely apathetic to each-other, especially on Frieza's part. In every arc before this, save the first, Goku and his foe always had some connection, not here. Yet despite all that, Goku is the one to battle Frieza in the end, sole by virtue of being the main character. From a narrative stand point it takes away almost all the stories build up and throws it away. All the other characters hard work has no pay off and they get relegated to the side lines. Vegeta only gets a pay of because he gets killed. The only saving grace for this is how Goku and Frieza's relationship would develop beyond this point.

The Android arc is just as bad. Goku is put in a coma thanks to the heart virus and he's out of the arc proper until the Cell games. During that time the he dose one helpful thing, the rest he just stands and watchs or is training in an isolated location AGAIN. Now everything, and I do mean everything, after Goku gets sick is made pointless by Goku and Gohan at the end of the arc. The only single thing that helps is moving Goku to kami house. Apart from that, the caste could have literally sat on their assess all that time and nothing would change. Goku could just wake up, go into the chamber with Gohan and the story would play out the same. All the hard work Piccolo, Tien, Trunks and Vegeta put in is rendered utterly pointless. And once again Goku has barely any connection to the main threat. Cell just wants to kill him because thats what he was made to do and he wants to fight the strongest. Goku is in almost exactly the same position he was on Namek, Goku speaks to Cell once before he become's perfect and saves his friend from getting hurt, creating a bare minimum connection between the two beforehand. But then we have Gohan come in and do the exact same thing to Goku! While the ending manages to give them both some payoff, apart from throwing a very small bone to Vegeta, the the rest of the caste are left out in the cold again. The anime did fix this however.

The Buu Saga what can I say that has not already been said. The second Super Buu absorbs Gohan, Goku steps in and pulls the rug right out from under his sons and Piccolo AGAIN. The one saving grace is Vegeta's involvement and development.

Those are 3 of Z's 4 arcs and in each of them having Goku taken out of the story only served to make everyone elses hard work look pointless. Say what you will about GT but at least by focusing just on Goku he feels like a part of his own story and he never steals anyone elses thunder. In Super the only time they really dropped the ball hard was Piccolo and Buu in the U6 tournament, they were utterly wasted there and Vegeta's death at the hands of Frieza in RoF. In every other arc the characters they included did something relevant that was not undercut by Goku.
I dont agree with you on the Namek Arc.

Goku would have been with them all alomg or have gone alone if he wasnt injured badly from his fight with Vegeta. His entire goal was to get to Namek and join up with everyone. Once everyone got to Namek we saw the power gap between Frieza, his men and the Z Fighters.

Goku didnt swoop in from nowhere because the entire arc is built in a way that its the main point from the start.
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Re: So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:59 pm

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

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