Dragon Ball Super: TV Ratings Discussion Thread

[SaiyanGod117]

Well that's how it works for a specific part of it.

[alakazam^]

However that doesn't happen every time most of the time Super is only the show the ratings are dropping for. You can't keep trying to hold this narrative that the ratings drop for others shows is the result for Super's low ratings. When in-fact the ratings drop is too negligible to make a difference. Super is airing on one of the best TV networks in Japans, on one of the best time slots of the day. Yet it's been stuck in the same spot for two years, failing to grab any kind of new audience and now losing it's existing audience. Moreover, the thing that gets a show a placement in the first place is ratings.

Animated shows rely on merchandise sales, Kai doesn't prove anything. Ratings wise; Kai was a success because the content Kai showed wasn't dogshit. You missed my whole point entirely.

Explain to me some things:

How is 9a.m. one of the best timeslots of the day?
How come you didn't say One Piece was failing and losing its existing audience in the week Super surpassed it?
So, animated shows rely on merchandise sales and that's why Kai doesn't prove anything but it was still cancelled even though, as you say, it was a success because its content wasn't dogshit? I'd think a successful show wouldn't get cancelled...

If you want to be taken seriously, you should hide your bias better and use actual arguments to support it. You don't like Super, that's fine, but Japan does. There's not enough information to set a failling pattern.

[Totamo]

Obviously, the first episode of the tournament was so bad that Japanese fans decided to skip another terrible episode, furthermore, the second episode (98) was horrible as well and nowadays bad news travel fast.

Hmm. Wasn't expecting the main tournament to drop below a 5.0 at any stage, so that's a disappointing rating to achieve. Super will bounce next week like it always does.

I doubt it.

Content doesn't affect ratings, otherwise a filler episode wouldn't be rated the third highest in the entire series and people would have dropped super after the rof arc.


As long as its in the same range or higher which it is, there is nothing to worry about.

[SaiyanGod117]

Explain to me some things:

How is 9a.m. one of the best timeslots of the day?

This should be common sense for anyone who has watched a cartoon as a child. A Saturday morning airing for a cartoon is the most favorable time slot a cartoon can get, as that's when programs designed for young children usually air their new episodes or episodes in general.

How come you didn't say One Piece was failing and losing its existing audience in the week Super surpassed it?

Why would I? One Piece's manga has 350 million copies in print in Japan and continues to be the top selling manga.

So, animated shows rely on merchandise sales and that's why Kai doesn't prove anything but it was still cancelled even though, as you say, it was a success because its content wasn't dogshit? I'd think a successful show wouldn't get cancelled...

I'm pretty sure I said ratings wise Kai was a success. Did I not? Seems you must of skipped over it.

If you want to be taken seriously, you should hide your bias better and use actual arguments to support it. You don't like Super, that's fine, but Japan does. There's not enough information to set a failling pattern.

Says the guy who has no argument. I could care less really.

[Cure Dragon 255]

You DO know that kids in Japan go to school on Saturdays dont you?

EDIT: It seems you do indeed. Sorry about that.

[8000 Saiyan]

You DO know that kids in Japan go to school on Saturdays dont you?

EDIT: It seems you do indeed. Sorry about that.

They do? Wow.

[LuckyCat]

This should be common sense for anyone who has watched a cartoon as a child. A Saturday morning airing for a cartoon is the most favorable time slot a cartoon can get, as that's when programs designed for young children usually air their new episodes or episodes in general.

The top rated anime: Sazae-San, Doraemon, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, and Detective Conan all have evening time slots. Thus, regrdless of whichever Western common sense you're applying here, the evening shift is the more viewed shift in Japan. Incidentally, DBZ was also an evening show.

[Hit!!]

Super got it's 4th lowest rating ever? Welp, looks like the Japanese fans knew that the episode would suck and did not watch it ahead of time. It was fun while it lasted guys, but it seems like Super is gonna get cancelled mid-tournament.

I love me some delicious sarcasm

[alakazam^]

This should be common sense for anyone who has watched a cartoon as a child. A Saturday morning airing for a cartoon is the most favorable time slot a cartoon can get, as that's when programs designed for young children usually air their new episodes or episodes in general.

Why would I? One Piece's manga has 350 million copies in print in Japan and continues to be the top selling manga.

I'm pretty sure I said ratings wise Kai was a success. Did I not? Seems you must of skipped over it.

Says the guy who has no argument. I could care less really.

I don't need to have an argument to point out the flaws in yours.

As LuckyCat pointed out, a morning timeslot isn't one of the best.

Because you're already deciding Super is losing viewership based on one week so there's no reason not to do the same with One Piece, which you didn't. Also, the manga isn't the anime...

No, I read that. Just like I read you saying animated shows relied on merchandise sales and that was the reason Kai didn't prove anything. Well, it obviously wasn't considered a success because it got cancelled, the number of people watching it didn't matter. Super, on the other hand, has the viewership and brings home the money. I would call this a success, wouldn't you?

Oh, ok. If you don't care, you don't need to reply, then.

[SaiyanGod117]

This should be common sense for anyone who has watched a cartoon as a child. A Saturday morning airing for a cartoon is the most favorable time slot a cartoon can get, as that's when programs designed for young children usually air their new episodes or episodes in general.

The top rated anime: Sazae-San, Doraemon, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, and Detective Conan all have evening time slots.

Which have all been airing on the very same Television network they started on for decades now, each of them all have an episode count of over 800 and two of them over 1000. I'm pretty sure if one of those shows got replaced for a newly created animated show, it wouldn't preform the same.

I don't need to have an argument to point out the flaws in yours.

As LuckyCat pointed out, a morning timeslot isn't one of the best.

DBS has the most beneficial time slot it can get, different time slots cater to different demographics and psychographics.

Because you're already deciding Super is losing viewership based on one week so there's no reason not to do the same with One Piece, which you didn't. Also, the manga isn't the anime...

No, I read that. Just like I read you saying animated shows relied on merchandise sales and that was the reason Kai didn't prove anything. Well, it obviously wasn't considered a success because it got cancelled, the number of people watching it didn't matter. Super, on the other hand, has the viewership and brings home the money. I would call this a success, wouldn't you?

Oh, ok. If you don't care, you don't need to reply, then.

You haven't pointed out any flaws, all you've been doing is falsely accusing.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The way people go to convince themselves that Super is some sort of failure is astonishing. It's a success plain as day and you have to get over it. You don't like the show fine but let's not go bending facts to meet your agenda.

Plenty of anime never or hardly make the top 10 yet are successes.

[Bigivel]

Did Kai ever make the top 10? I wasn't following Kai when it originally aired in Japan. Does anyone have a list of it's ratings archived anywhere?

Kai never left the Top 10!

[Bigivel]

This should be common sense for anyone who has watched a cartoon as a child. A Saturday morning airing for a cartoon is the most favorable time slot a cartoon can get, as that's when programs designed for young children usually air their new episodes or episodes in general.

The top rated anime: Sazae-San, Doraemon, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, and Detective Conan all have evening time slots. Thus, regrdless of whichever Western common sense you're applying here, the evening shift is the more viewed shift in Japan. Incidentally, DBZ was also an evening show.

And One Piece was also(it was in the same timeslot of the old Dragon Ball), and when it was moved to the morning the ratings tanked! Morning timeslot is in any way the best timeslot, not even a good one. If I'm not forgetting anything only Toei Animation series are able to get such good ratings to appear in the Top 10 and be morning series(Precure, Dragon Ball Super, One Piece).


About Kai and even GT being failures. Again, they weren't in any front. In TV ratings they were always in the Top 10, Kai even many times surpassed One Piece. In terms of merchandize they sold very well, unless if for you success = Super Rare Mega sales; failure = everything else. Just consider this, One Piece anime ran succesfully for its first 10 years(note that only big successes get to even reach 5 years) and did less than what DB Kai did.
For GT we don't have any kind of merchandise information other than the Disk sales, and they are the best in all the franchise. People love to call stuff failures and cancelled but that doesn't make it true.

About Cancellation they weren't cancelled, they were from the start just planned to run for 2 years. The same for Dragon Ball Super, the only difference is that Super is having Mega sales, and so is seems not practical to end such a golden egg, but Toei can still make a crazy move, end this Tournament by this year and end Dragon Ball Super.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Super was not planned for two years, there was no plan. And with Kai there was similarly no 2 year plan as Kanzenshuu themselves said those rumours were from unsourced reports.

[LuckyCat]

Yes, I was pretty sure that was a false rumor, but really the only point I was making with Kai is that Toei could have produced more episodes immediately if it was as successful as Dragon Ball Super. Of course, we all know Kai went on to be internationally successful and Buu Kai was made later, but that's another story.

[Bigivel]

Super was not planned for two years, there was no plan. And with Kai there was similarly no 2 year plan as Kanzenshuu themselves said those rumours were from unsourced reports.

What rumours are you talking about? I didn't talked of any rumour at all, you're reaching.

I'm talking about Toei Animation patterns on series extensions and the fact that in their site those series start always with a placeholder of 100 episodes(2 years). Even Super got that treatment.

[Bigivel]

Yes, I was pretty sure that was a false rumor, but really the only point I was making with Kai is that Toei could have produced more episodes immediately if it was as successful as Dragon Ball Super. Of course, we all know Kai went on to be internationally successful and Buu Kai was made later, but that's another story.

Again, what rumors are you talking about. This looks like pokemon, "A rumor appears".


Toei produced more episodes for a lot of series way less popular than Kai, and I'm talking in any strand of revenue. Comparing the series popularity with itself, is highly ignorant. If that was the case Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Precure and even One Piece would'nt be running right now. Being in the lowest point of a series is not the same as saying the series isn't successful.
Example: If successful is a series doing 100 Million yen in a year. And you have a mega popular series that does 5 Billion yen in a year(Around the size of the sales of the 4th best Animation Studio). If for years and years your series does that but after sometime starts to decline until it reached 500 Million yen in a year, 10 times less than normally was doing, this in any way means the series isn't successful and you would stop doing it. Why? Because while it is a disaster in terms of the personal record of the series it is still 5 times bigger than a normal successful series.

Let's look at Precure right now comparable with what it usually was doing and Dragon Ball Kai and what Dragon Ball normally does.

Precure since its inception was doing per year more than 1 Billion yen per year, this since 2005, but started declining and in 2015 went as far down as ~700 Million yen. Though they continued doing it, and due to the Glitter Force it reached again 1 Billion yen this year.

From 2009 to 2011 the years of DBZ Kai, the franchise did 2.8, 3.1 and 2.0 Billion yen. The year right after where the series stopped it decreased to 1.3 Billion yen(Yep, all of them is higher than what Precure did this year!). Though before that it was doing comfortably around 3 Billion yen. (Note: Now Super is doing 5 to 6 Billion yen per year)

Are you telling me that 2 Billion yen per year is a failure? Studio Pierrot that is the 4th best studio in sales, does 5 Billion in a year(And yes I'm talking of the entire studio). This is almost half of entire Studio Pierrot sales.
Precure that is Toei Animation most popular Magical Girl series ever, only does 1+ Billion yen per year. One Piece from 2005 to 2008 was doing around 0.5-0.6 Billion yen and still was highly successful, but are we to believe that Dragon Ball Kai doing 2 Billion yen was so unsuccessful that they canceled it?

What is a better assumption, that a series that continues in the top 3 of the Animation Studio and does an incredible 2 Billion yen in a year, is a flop and was cancelled due to that. Or by looking at the studio patterns of doing business and their hints in placeholding in their site, reaching the conclusion that it was just the normal 2 year "extension" for old series case?

[LuckyCat]

I'm going by this site's article on The Evolution of Dragon Ball Kai. Specifically

From the beginning, based on Toei Animation’s projected episode count, it appeared as though they were only planning Kai as far ahead as whatever the current arc was.

And to the point of Kai 1.0's failure as a show I get that from this:

It is quite evident that many fans were simply enjoying the free HD broadcasts of the series while not buying any of its merchandise. Unfortunately, no show can survive in Japan without decent merchandise sales, which ultimately funds the show’s production. In almost every fiscal presentation during the course of Dragon Ball Kai‘s run, Toei Animation would note the “strong performance of character merchandise, DVDs/Blu-rays of One Piece and Pretty Cure“. Not once was Dragon Ball ever mentioned in a similar fashion.

This truly became evident in Q2 Fiscal 2011 when Toei Animation noted in its presentation that “under [a] continuous severe business environment, our goal is to aim to create [the] ‘next hit title’ by securing stable income from the multi-use of the current TV lineups and library titles”. In the same presentation, they noted a need to “strengthen the lineup” and even went so far as to say a “new TV lineup was in preparation for the 2011 year”. It was most likely at this point that Toei Animation had fully decided to move on from Dragon Ball Kai. Presumably using the profits from One Piece and Pretty Cure, they began the process of turning the popular manga series Toriko into their “next hit anime title” and giving it Dragon Ball Kai‘s time slot.

[Bigivel]

I'm going by this site's article on The Evolution of Dragon Ball Kai. Specifically

From the beginning, based on Toei Animation’s projected episode count, it appeared as though they were only planning Kai as far ahead as whatever the current arc was.

And to the point of Kai 1.0's failure as a show I get that from this:

It is quite evident that many fans were simply enjoying the free HD broadcasts of the series while not buying any of its merchandise. Unfortunately, no show can survive in Japan without decent merchandise sales, which ultimately funds the show’s production. In almost every fiscal presentation during the course of Dragon Ball Kai‘s run, Toei Animation would note the “strong performance of character merchandise, DVDs/Blu-rays of One Piece and Pretty Cure“. Not once was Dragon Ball ever mentioned in a similar fashion.

This truly became evident in Q2 Fiscal 2011 when Toei Animation noted in its presentation that “under [a] continuous severe business environment, our goal is to aim to create [the] ‘next hit title’ by securing stable income from the multi-use of the current TV lineups and library titles”. In the same presentation, they noted a need to “strengthen the lineup” and even went so far as to say a “new TV lineup was in preparation for the 2011 year”. It was most likely at this point that Toei Animation had fully decided to move on from Dragon Ball Kai. Presumably using the profits from One Piece and Pretty Cure, they began the process of turning the popular manga series Toriko into their “next hit anime title” and giving it Dragon Ball Kai‘s time slot.

Such a wild and bias interpertation of what was in the reports.

[VegettoEX]

You're free to call us "biased", but perhaps use the correct word when doing so.

I welcome your alternate interpretation based on the same public data we reference there.