Anyone else can't stand Zen-Oh?

[lancerman]

Why the hell is it funny to them? OK ningen cant comprehend their virtues but why the fuck are they laughing when they rid U9?

Have you every seen the Star Trek episode with Gary Mitchell? Basically a dude became a god and he evolved so much that human's became meaningless to him because they were so inferior. Like human's to him were what ants and flies were to humans. They were there, but more of an annoyance that didn't merit any real thought in the grand scheme of things.

To them they are super omnipotent beings that supersede the multiverse. These people and universes are just things they manage in their job. They can't empathize with them. Remember when one Zen-Oh erased the future timeline? It didn't register that they were destroying millions of people. All that mattered was that the universe was tainted and needed to be gone.

The gods of destruction are that way on a smaller scale. All of them don't give a second thought to wiping out a planet. Zen-Oh doesn't give a second thought to wiping out a universe.

[Zagacious]

Why the hell is it funny to them? OK ningen cant comprehend their virtues but why the fuck are they laughing when they rid U9?

Have you every seen the Star Trek episode with Gary Mitchell? Basically a dude became a god and he evolved so much that human's became meaningless to him because they were so inferior. Like human's to him were what ants and flies were to humans. They were there, but more of an annoyance that didn't merit any real thought in the grand scheme of things.
To them they are super omnipotent beings that supersede the multiverse. These people and universes are just things they manage in their job. They can't empathize with them. Remember when one Zen-Oh erased the future timeline? It didn't register that they were destroying millions of people. All that mattered was that the universe was tainted and needed to be gone.

That analogy describes it perfectly, but compare it to the fact that most humans don't kill bugs unless they are 'in the way' or because of actual fear of insects, like flies in your food or spiders in your house. Most people don't go out and kill tons of insects for no reason. While Zeno has no logical reason that benefits him in any way to killing the universes, but he's doing it anyways. Yes there are humans that will go out and kill a bunch of stuff for little or no reason, but it's more the exception than the norm (not talking about animals for food that's an entirely different issue but also has good reasoning).

It's like saying I have 6 cats and unlimited money/supply/help to take care of them but I'd rather have 5 so I'll just erase one, it's not a logical reason. It's not just about having emotions or not, you still wouldn't erase something without an actual reason behind it. The universes aren't 'bothering' him in any way, he's probably not even aware of what's going on in 99% of existence from what we've seen so far.

It's also a completely different thing to be apathetic toward the universes than to outright go and erase them without reason.

I'm hoping there is some more explanation like Zeno is all powerful but not that intelligent, while Grand Priest is kind of manipulating him.

[WittyUsername]

Why the hell is it funny to them? OK ningen cant comprehend their virtues but why the fuck are they laughing when they rid U9?

Have you every seen the Star Trek episode with Gary Mitchell? Basically a dude became a god and he evolved so much that human's became meaningless to him because they were so inferior. Like human's to him were what ants and flies were to humans. They were there, but more of an annoyance that didn't merit any real thought in the grand scheme of things.
To them they are super omnipotent beings that supersede the multiverse. These people and universes are just things they manage in their job. They can't empathize with them. Remember when one Zen-Oh erased the future timeline? It didn't register that they were destroying millions of people. All that mattered was that the universe was tainted and needed to be gone.

That analogy describes it perfectly, but compare it to the fact that most humans don't kill bugs unless they are 'in the way' or because of actual fear of insects, like flies in your food or spiders in your house. Most people don't go out and kill tons of insects for no reason. While Zeno has no logical reason that benefits him in any way to killing the universes, but he's doing it anyways. Yes there are humans that will go out and kill a bunch of stuff for little or no reason, but it's more the exception than the norm (not talking about animals for food that's an entirely different issue but also has good reasoning).

It's like saying I have 6 cats and unlimited money/supply/help to take care of them but I'd rather have 5 so I'll just erase one, it's not a logical reason. It's not just about having emotions or not, you still wouldn't erase something without an actual reason behind it. The universes aren't 'bothering' him in any way, he's probably not even aware of what's going on in 99% of existence from what we've seen so far.

It's also a completely different thing to be apathetic toward the universes than to outright go and erase them without reason.

I'm hoping there is some more explanation like Zeno is all powerful but not that intelligent, while Grand Priest is kind of manipulating him.

Unfortunately, the theory about the Grand Priest possibly being evil seems to be a rather controversial one at the moment. I'm honestly not sure why, since I think that it could make for an interesting story, but many people just don't seem fond of the idea.

Then again, the fact that it does seem like it'd make for an interesting story (to me anyway) kind of makes me think that Super possibly won't go that route after all.

[Zagacious]

Unfortunately, the theory about the Grand Priest possibly being evil seems to be a rather controversial one at the moment. I'm honestly not sure why, since I think that it could make for an interesting story, but many people just don't seem fond of the idea.

Then again, the fact that it does seem like it'd make for an interesting story (to me anyway) kind of makes me think that Super possibly won't go that route after all.

My post wasn't really focused around Grand Priest, but I think even if he is manipulating Zeno it doesn't necessarily mean he's evil. I agree it would make a much more interesting story if there's some kind of manipulation or plot behind those 2. There are many possibilities where he could be manipulating Zeno and not be evil:

1. Zeno is the most powerful being and destructive by nature, but he needs someone intelligent to guide him so he doesn't get carried away and just outright destroy everything. This has lead Grand Priest to be forced to 'manipulate' him over time the way the humans kind of manipulate Fat Buu (not exactly the same but close). It could be true that the Tournament was his idea to mitigate the amount of destruction and appease Zeno so he doesn't get in the mood to destroy anything for a while. He probably also knows they can use the Super Dragon Balls to wish things back, or he knows everything will be 'unerased' in the end after Zenos has been satisified.

2. Zeno and Grand Priest are like a god of destruction and angel duo and there's a being above them that's telling Grand Priest what to do and he has no choice but to comply and try to mitigate as much destruction as possible. Also a possibility there is some 'force' that is not sentient but exists between universes or something and having too many universes causes this power to imbalance over time (kind of like how Black Dragons just spawned from cumulative evil wishes in GT) that may even be a challenge for Zeno.

3. The real goal is to keep the universes in check so no one attempts to challenge Zeno, because he is not actually indestructible. This could sort of be seen as them being evil, but at the same time it could be in the best interest of the universes to make sure the ruler is at least somewhat reasonable instead of someone like Frieza.

Any of these reasons make a million times more sense than what we're given now "There are too many universes, I must erase them".

[lancerman]

Why the hell is it funny to them? OK ningen cant comprehend their virtues but why the fuck are they laughing when they rid U9?

Have you every seen the Star Trek episode with Gary Mitchell? Basically a dude became a god and he evolved so much that human's became meaningless to him because they were so inferior. Like human's to him were what ants and flies were to humans. They were there, but more of an annoyance that didn't merit any real thought in the grand scheme of things.
To them they are super omnipotent beings that supersede the multiverse. These people and universes are just things they manage in their job. They can't empathize with them. Remember when one Zen-Oh erased the future timeline? It didn't register that they were destroying millions of people. All that mattered was that the universe was tainted and needed to be gone.

That analogy describes it perfectly, but compare it to the fact that most humans don't kill bugs unless they are 'in the way' or because of actual fear of insects, like flies in your food or spiders in your house. Most people don't go out and kill tons of insects for no reason. While Zeno has no logical reason that benefits him in any way to killing the universes, but he's doing it anyways. Yes there are humans that will go out and kill a bunch of stuff for little or no reason, but it's more the exception than the norm (not talking about animals for food that's an entirely different issue but also has good reasoning).

It's like saying I have 6 cats and unlimited money/supply/help to take care of them but I'd rather have 5 so I'll just erase one, it's not a logical reason. It's not just about having emotions or not, you still wouldn't erase something without an actual reason behind it. The universes aren't 'bothering' him in any way, he's probably not even aware of what's going on in 99% of existence from what we've seen so far.

It's also a completely different thing to be apathetic toward the universes than to outright go and erase them without reason.

I'm hoping there is some more explanation like Zeno is all powerful but not that intelligent, while Grand Priest is kind of manipulating him.

But it's not cats, it's bugs. And maybe Zeno thinks he doesn't want to manage 12 bugs and only wants to spend his time dealing with the 5 best. He did this exact thing with the Zamasu universe. It's like trimming shrubbery to him.

[Zagacious]

But it's not cats, it's bugs. And maybe Zeno thinks he doesn't want to manage 12 bugs and only wants to spend his time dealing with the 5 best. He did this exact thing with the Zamasu universe. It's like trimming shrubbery to him.

Honestly that doesn't really change anything I said. Humans still don't go out and kill bugs for no reason except in specific cases like flies in your food or mosquitoes biting you or spiders in your house. Humans don't just go out and kill as many bugs as possible. When there are only 12 universes, you can't really compare it to shrubbery. As far as we know those 12 universes and the 'gods place' whatever it's called are the only things that exist. If he is indeed ruler over the 12 universes, it's more like having 12 houses and I just destroy one of the houses 'cause there are too many'. That's entirely different than trimming shrubbery which is not destroying, but refining something. You can't even compare it to killing weeds either, there aren't only 12 weeds in existence. If you want to compare it to wiping out all plants on Earth just cause there are 'too many' that would be a more apt comparison.

Now if there were millions or even hundreds of universes, the bug comparison would work perfectly, as most humans don't care about killing a bug or 10, when you're driving or get startled at home cause you know there are millions more. Compare that to wiping out an entire bug species which most people would not willingly do (except maybe to certain spiders and mosquitoes, but we wouldn't even do that because we know it would mess up the balance of the planet's life)

The Zamasu universe had an actual reason to be erased so that's not the same at all. A world where the gods were destroyed and time was manipulated.

[FoolsGil]

Not as a character. But as a plot device yeah I don't like him.

[Xeogran]

As of today's episode: Freeza

It's truly amazing how a dead person plans to overtake TWO Gods.

Freeza is crazy. From being worried about Beerus in RoF straight to THIS.

[MagmonKai]

As of today's episode: Freeza

It's truly amazing how a dead person plans to overtake TWO Gods.

Freeza is crazy. From being worried about Beerus in RoF straight to THIS.

That diatribe by Frieza made me like him even more. I hope he does overtake those silly geese.

[Pluto]

Definitely, Frieza's ambitions should be an arc.

And, Khai seems to be a sick kaioshin, i really like his far-sight, he commented Goku differently, and was keen to see him in action.

[Saturnine]

Freeza was the audience's thought catalyst in this episode. He specifically mentioned how the Zen'ohs' demeanor can clash with their horrific deeds.

[Ki Breaker]

Freeza was the audience's thought catalyst in this episode. He specifically mentioned how the Zen'ohs' demeanor can clash with their horrific deeds.

Yeah, but the ruling over zeno is odd..
I prefer to think of it as foreshadowing

[Saturnine]

Freeza was the audience's thought catalyst in this episode. He specifically mentioned how the Zen'ohs' demeanor can clash with their horrific deeds.

Yeah, but the ruling over zeno is odd..
I prefer to think of it as foreshadowing

Just because Freeza says something, doesn't mean it's foreshadowing. We only learned the extent of Freeza's ambition, and perhaps delusion.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Freeza was the audience's thought catalyst in this episode. He specifically mentioned how the Zen'ohs' demeanor can clash with their horrific deeds.

Yeah, but the ruling over zeno is odd..
I prefer to think of it as foreshadowing

Just because Freeza says something, doesn't mean it's foreshadowing. We only learned the extent of Freeza's ambition, and perhaps delusion.

This is actually a good point. There are two possibilities I see.

1) The Super Dragon Balls can impact Zeno. In this case Frieza isnt crazy. Id actually say they are a danger and I'm surprised Grand Priest allows them to exist.

2) What I feel is more logical, the Super Dragon Balls are in fact limited when it comes to the Omni-King. Frieza is insane

[SirTorra]

One of DBS biggest problems aside from bad art and animation, nauseating powerscaling and bad character development, is the introduction of Zeno. There was no need to introduce such a powerful being. Instead of of building towards an appropriate saga for the King of All, we got this annoying squirt whose whole character is that of a "cute" child way to early in the series.
OP I share your distaste for that lemonhead, Zeno.

[DainIronfoot]

Definitely, Frieza's ambitions should be an arc.

And, Khai seems to be a sick kaioshin, i really like his far-sight, he commented Goku differently, and was keen to see him in action.

Are you talking about the Universe 1 Kaioshin Anato?

By the way, I liked Zero's first appearance. He was definitely less childlike in that scene, speaking in sentences and sounding somewhat like a ruler. They've made him more childlike as time went on though.

As for the SDB and whether they affect Zeno, I'm not sure yet. Zamasu used them to attain immortality but Zeno was able to erase him (effectively erasing the wish used by them). I'll wait and see how things unfold but at least for now I don't think they can affect Zeno directly.

[Pluto]

Definitely, Frieza's ambitions should be an arc.

And, Khai seems to be a sick kaioshin, i really like his far-sight, he commented Goku differently, and was keen to see him in action.

Are you talking about the Universe 1 Kaioshin Anato?

Yup, that's correct. He seems very interesting, and seems to understand both parties.

[Low Tone G]

I'm not gonna lie, I find him pretty obnoxious. I'm not a fan of any character whose entire personality consists of how "cute" and "innocent" they are, and the fact that he is able to get away with basically having the entire multiverse at his mercy really rubs me the wrong way.

I've always had a problem with Beerus being able to get away with being a petty asshole who destroys things on a whim as well, but at least in his case, there's always been the implication that one day, people like Goku and Vegeta might eventually surpass him. Zen-Oh on the other hand, seems to be at a level of power that makes him completely invincible (which kind of goes against the general theme of Dragon Ball, but I digress). It just frustrates me that we're apparently supposed to like him for being cute, despite the fact that he's basically an omnicidal maniac who no one can do a thing about. The fact that there's now two of him certainly doesn't help...

I think he is the happiest child in existence! To be honest, I'm kinda jealous
I don't really know what to think about HIM... He is the pinacle of all there is, but he doesn't really deserve his status and power, he tends to abuse with his powers and get away with it, cuz he's the King of All, and not to mention a child, who only wants to play.
I'm not sure how much time can they keep him like this from a narrative perspective.

[DainIronfoot]

Definitely, Frieza's ambitions should be an arc.

And, Khai seems to be a sick kaioshin, i really like his far-sight, he commented Goku differently, and was keen to see him in action.

Are you talking about the Universe 1 Kaioshin Anato?

Yup, that's correct. He seems very interesting, and seems to understand both parties.

Well he is Kaioshin of the best universe, imagine if we had him for uni7 XD. By the way is it just me or do they keep switching the voices on us. First it was Camphari's, he was introduced with a deep voice and now it's more high pitched. Anato seemed more higher when he first spoke
,now he sounds so low. Maybe it's just me haha

[Kanassa]

I hope Frieza does take the Omni-King's throne, but instead of becoming a villain, he just decides to be the multiverse's biggest troll. "Ima chillax in my new dig, but any one wanna take a shot at Son GOku, go right ahead!"