Deconstructing Your Greatest Criticisms with Super

[Li'l Lemmy]

Long time, no see. More busy than I wanna be, helping one person through cardiac rehab and another with cancer.

WAT A BRIGHT WAY TO KICK THINGS OFF, HUH~?!

So, while I haven't really been here since the launch of DragonBall Super- I say every six months or so that I'm gonna change that, I know; here's hoping this time I can actually change it for real- I did begin watching it where I could find the time for it.

I've discovered that I generally dislike the show, at least so far, for a multitude of reasons.

However, I have also discovered (read: been told, and not inaccurately) that I have not been articulating my criticisms very well as of late, because my passion for the medium has hindered my ability to regard it with objectivity and clarity of thought while simultaneously enhancing a tendency to oversimplify instead of offering anything of substance.

I've become an asshole. o_o

No, really! Look!





Yeah! Turns out I really love ragetweeting.

It's actually really disheartening now that I'm able to realize it.

I mean, I haven't become some sort of total asshole. Just with regards to DBS! Which makes it better... right?

Well, no. Because I'm figuring out that unfocused, kneejerk criticisms can become too easy to make a habit of. I'm articulate, reasoned and thoughtful by nature; I'd hate to see that get washed away in a flood of bitching. Or worse still, for that behavior to spread into other, more important areas.

So I'm calling myself out. I am an asshole, and I need to do better.

It's regrettable that the series has incensed me so much that a lot of my reactions tend to be the same overblown blanket statements I actually tried to minimize in others during my last visit to the forums. How bizarre that the very thing I was able to identify in others has ended up festering within myself.

So hey, cool story. But what's the actual point of the thread? For me to call attention to my own dick behavior?

Ye- I mean, no. NO. Duh. Obviously not.

No, the point is to actually "call out" what it is about this franchise that can cause you to lose your objectivity and descend into madness. What's your trigger? What's that one thing where you're suddenly prepared to "drop the show" and throw the whole franchise over a bridge because it isn't/wasn't being handled the way you feel it ought to be? Is it a character, an arc, a plot idea? Power levels? Something else?

Using myself as the obvious example, I'll say that Goten is my problem area. I don't like how Super has not done anything within the first 100(!) episodes to develop his character or even just update his look, so my natural inclination is to become vicious, overstated and unreasonable in advocating my position. In my case, I have found that my opinion regarding (non)usage of the character can effectively poison my outlook on the entire show, which on one hand is ridiculous yet on the other seems to make all the sense in the world to me.





SEE? Why would I say anything like that?? It's so childish!

Because that's my trigger. Jekyll becomes Hyde. Fandom infuses us with feeling, which is usually a very good thing, but occasionally it will get out of control if you don't keep in in check. I usually see myself as the last guy who can't properly elucidate from a place of reason, and yet here I am calling myself out for that very thing.

The idea is to identify your trigger, so that you are more aware of it in the public settings within which you actively discuss DragonBall.

I realize that not everyone will have a trigger that actually activates Dick Mode. Buuuuuuut, ya know it's in ya.

So what's yours?

[Boo Machine]

Interesting topic. And very well put. I like it.

What's my trigger for Super?

Can't say I have any specific Trigger. At least none that would get me to drop the show or act out in rage. For me to drop the show or rage, Super would either have to get really boring, or it would have to be so nauseating to keep up with. Like the writing would need to be so bad consistently that I am actively annoyed when trying to keep up with it, like what eventually happened with me and Fairy Tail. (I still like Fairy tail, but I have no intention of reading or watching anything that's come out in the past few years.)

That said, The closest thing I have to a "Trigger" with Super is just how often seemingly important elements are introduced yet little to nothing will be done with them. Let's just call them "Missed Opportunities ". This is from both the Anime and manga.

Examples of this would be stuff like The Namekian Book of legends or the Universe 12 time traveler. 2 things that sound like they have awesome stories behind them, but, so far, they have just been mentioned and then brushed off. Those are small examples and their are a bunch of other small ones sprinkled through the whole thing.

But a big example is Mai Shooting Blacks Potara with a "Special Bullet". It feels like such a big set up and I was waiting for that moment to come into play. Maybe the fusion that happens later is missed up because of this shot. But it never does. It was just Mai failing horribly and it lead to nothing.

That gets frustrating at times and I'll just sit there trying to process it for a bit, but even then the frustration doesn't last long for me. Anger is so much work and I am too lazy for it. But I will look back every now and again and sigh in sorrow over what could have been.

[OLKv3]

I hate the fanbase way more than the show

[Zephyr]

Nothing about the show itself really makes me want threaten to quit every other episode.

Granted, there's no shortage of stuff I dislike about it. Art, animation, writing, music, pacing, in universe timeline placement, etc. I think the show's predominantly trash, and even on its best days it leaves more to be desired than it could/should.

And yet, that doesn't really bother me. It might be trash, but it exists as this so transparently-corporately-driven thing that its not worth expending the energy to piss and moan about on a weekly basis. I'd rather enjoy it for what it is: an entertaining weekly ride.

I'm still enjoying the ride. I still look forward to each week's episode. I'm still bummed when the episode ends. I'm still curious to see what others think of it.

But it's largely a one and done deal. The splendor doesn't linger after the first watch, with very few exceptions, and this is already a dense series even in its incomplete state, so I don't care about owning it for the purpose of rewatching, like I might for something equally crappy but much shorter in length. And the near complete lack of a soul underneath most of the operation makes me incredibly apprehensive about supporting the thing with my wallet, and about recommending it to others whose specific individual reactions I don't have a personal interest in seeing.

But again, thats not something that offends me to the point where I'm angrily reminded of it each week, leaving me compelled to vent this newfound and somehow unexpected rage. I wanted new DB. I got it. It's pretty bad. Oh well. If there's anything that really 'triggers' me, it's going to be more Fandom related. I can easily come to terms with an anticipated work failing to live up expectations and move on. A solid community becoming infested with people who converse like children and make the place into a toxic dump is a far bigger nerve-striker, for me.

[emperior]

My only trigger is the awful art and animation.

Luckily ever since episode 33 we haven't got a horrendously animated episode but the bad art still continued to be there until the US arc which is where Super has finally started to deliver consistently good art. I've been so happy ever since episode 75 - the backgrounds are gorgeous, the line-art effect is great, the filter is great at times (though it doesn't look that great in the tournament, unfortunately) the storyboards have gotten better, and the scripts too - even though I'm not really totally satisfacted about how the tournament is focusing too much on U7, and only another universe got a ring out in 5 minutes.

The only thing which would make me stop watching Super would be if the average art and animation looked like episodes 24/25/33. In fact the only time I ever thought of dropping Super was after episode 26.
It's not like I don't have any other problem with Super, by the way.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

That it's been years and we still have no idea how Super Saiyan God/Blue work.

[Akyon]

I certainly lost my rag when we heard of the spoilers for this week's episodes.

I am a HUGE fan of the Z fighters in general and Krillin being the stand out. When I heard he was out already I became rather irritable. At first I thought it was just because "mah boy" was already out and frankly I find his fights tend to be some of the more creative.

But then I realised it wasn't just that. Certainly a factor, but I'd have been just as mad had 17 been kicked out first and that is due to build up.

I was fuming when Buu was announced to drop out AGAIN to be replaced by Frieza and I far prefer Frieza to Buu as a character.

My biggest issue is the lack of payoff for character build up overall.

Krillin goes through three episodes of 'getting his fighting spirit back' and there is plenty of 'we need Krillin's quick thinking fighting style' and even 'Krillin, survive til the end! That is an order!" and then after an admittedly decent showing he's KO'd in such a simple way that makes him look like a novice. First out. Disappointing. Feels like he only got hyped to make it seem shocking when he went out first.

Buu trains and trains and trains. Gets involved in the prelim fights and shows he's a useful asset...then immediately is removed from the competition because it's a running gag. Never mind that Buu is pumped up for a fight for once. Never mind that Satan is now removed from even witnessing the tournament despite being one of the few people in the know...nothing. Seemed like we were going somewhere and then we weren't.

Goku is told not to let his guard down. He ignores this and apparently learns how important it is every arc but still does the same stupid mistake.

Gohan swears to get serious about training after Piccolo dies in RoF. Doesn't bother coming to the U6 tournament. Claims it's because of work. Later quits his job to spend more time with Pan. Doesn't do any training on the side til this arc.

Yamcha kept getting cut away to for the whole ToP as if it was leading up to one big gag where he finds out they picked Frieza over him and he's broken up, but hey; no pay off even for the cruel joke at Yamcha's expense.

I'm half expecting Frieza to forget he's teamed up with Frost by episode 102 going by the previous examples and thus any time we get these weird ass build ups with no payoff they feel like total wastes of the audience, and animators time.

Payoff! It's important! (To me anyway)

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Nothing in the show triggers me on a negative sense. What does trigger me are a certain power level maniac fans/people surrounding the show.

[TheBigBoy]

Yeah I generally enjoy the show for what it is. It's not always perfect or logical, but hell, neither was Z. I've liked the ToP a lot so far, even though I was disappointed about Kuririn getting eliminated so quickly. I do sort of wonder if there's *anything* that would make some of the fans happy.

Stuff like the power level "rebalancing" and Trunks's Spirit Sword or whatever doesn't really bother me.

The animation is fine for a weekly TV show. I do sort of wish there was a film version of this tournament though. That would do a much better job of conveying how hectic an 80 man team battle royale would be...

[sintzu]

I'd say the thing that triggers me the most is bad writing (characters acting out of character, exaggerated charactaristics, ruining the lore, etc) and bad choreographed fights.

We're 100 episodes in and I'm still watching so nothing as of now has been so bad that it's overshadowed Toriyama's very interesting plot points that get better every week (or few months if we're stuck in between arc episodes).

The manga has also helped me stick around cause no matter how bad the anime gets, I know the manga will make up for it.

[aravinthan]

I hate the fanbase way more than the show

Agreed. The fandom became more shit after DBs

[Timetraveller]

The bad writing is my greatest criticism with Super. I mean, fan service is great and all but you need to have some kind of build-up and character development if you want to be able to pull it off. Frieza coming back after 4 months, most of which was offscreen, and becoming god level? Tingles.

[OLKv3]

Nothing about the show itself really makes me want threaten to quit every other episode.

Granted, there's no shortage of stuff I dislike about it. Art, animation, writing, music, pacing, in universe timeline placement, etc. I think the show's predominantly trash, and even on its best days it leaves more to be desired than it could/should.

And yet, that doesn't really bother me. It might be trash, but it exists as this so transparently-corporately-driven thing that its not worth expending the energy to piss and moan about on a weekly basis. I'd rather enjoy it for what it is: an entertaining weekly ride.

I'm still enjoying the ride. I still look forward to each week's episode. I'm still bummed when the episode ends. I'm still curious to see what others think of it.

But it's largely a one and done deal. The splendor doesn't linger after the first watch, with very few exceptions, and this is already a dense series even in its incomplete state, so I don't care about owning it for the purpose of rewatching, like I might for something equally crappy but much shorter in length. And the near complete lack of a soul underneath most of the operation makes me incredibly apprehensive about supporting the thing with my wallet, and about recommending it to others whose specific individual reactions I don't have a personal interest in seeing.

But again, thats not something that offends me to the point where I'm angrily reminded of it each week, leaving me compelled to vent this newfound and somehow unexpected rage. I wanted new DB. I got it. It's pretty bad. Oh well. If there's anything that really 'triggers' me, it's going to be more Fandom related. I can easily come to terms with an anticipated work failing to live up expectations and move on. A solid community becoming infested with people who converse like children and make the place into a toxic dump is a far bigger nerve-striker, for me.

This sums up my feelings much better than I could ever do

[Ki Breaker]

Your writing reminds me of the way I used to write back in the day, when I wasn't this much (seriously help me) into dark humor...

Welp, my trigger, if that's how we are gonna roll here is rolep-
Editnot really: Oh... my trigger to drop the show...
It's characters who have set a personality I admire to be reduced to anything but that personality..!
Sometimes certain traits blown out of proportions etc etc..
Now that it's not a concern anymore and everyone is in character more or less, there is no more rage or posion coming from this outlet..

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't have a specific trigger. Super rarely does anything to actively frustrate me, it's just that it only impresses me once in a blue moon. I don't like the way it looks, I don't like the storytelling, I don't like the characterization, I don't like the music. I literally don't like anything except for the in-between character-driven episodes, and looking back, I'm pretty triggered that I've wasted 2 years on something that I never really enjoyed to begin with. I actually have now, once and for all, dropped Super, so I guess 100 episodes of blandness combined with a total refusal to deliver on the expectations Super sets for itself is what finally triggered me to a point where I gave up.

[SaiyanGod117]

Super is shit and when all it's all said and done it will be looked backed on and viewed as shit, because it is shit. The series is nothing more then a market ploy, to generate more cash for the company that owns it. With no type of vitality, force, or convinction edged into the writing, production, concepts, themes, or show as a whole. The only department in the show with a sprinkle of that is the animation and unfortunately that is few and far between; the art is off model 95% percent of the time and the shit character designs and schedule doesn't help.

[The gr]

The Anime and Manga have missed opportunities,the Time traveler from U12,it was only briefly mentioned in This month chapters, this better for somewhere in the next arc and namekian book of legends went nowhere and gohan and trunk not having ssg,it just makes sense if you want these characters God tier

Vegeta in DBS in general,the manga is slightly worse because he didn't even bother teaming up with Goku, I don't like seeing vegeta like this and that awful scene where krillin is about to quit Even if his Universe is in danger and #18 won't participate unless there's money,gosh that scene was awful and disgusting and is in my top 5 worst DBS moments

[Snakeway Skywalker]

I hate the fanbase way more than the show

This really reflects my feelings. Sure, I have my problems with Super. It's far from being a perfect show, and at the end of the day, it's just a sequel to DBZ, one of my favorite shonen anime ever. The criticism of Super has just become so negative that I don't even consider it "criticism" at this point, more so hate and trashing it. Kazenshuu users, in general, are pretty well articulate in defining their complaints with DBS and I can respect that, even if I don't agree. But the outspoken crowd of people I see on Twitter or YouTube who dislike Super just go out of their way to hate on it, like calling it "the worst anime of all time" and that those of us who still like it are childish idiots. Like, seriously? That's your argument against something? By saying that it's just inherently bad and the fans are retards? Real mature.

I also just don't understand the mentality of those kind of people. Despite hating the show an incredible amount, they still come back to watch it each week. Why keep on watching it? I stopped watching Naruto Shippuden and The Walking Dead after my enjoyment for those series, which I had once loved, had ceased when they had become weekly chores that bored & annoyed me with poor writing and copious filler. So why don't the DBS haters just drop the show and leave those of us who enjoy it in peace? Because they're trolls that get off on hate and bullying people. Like I said earlier, they've become such an outspoken crowd that it makes me feel like the majority of people who watch Super hate it. It'd be interesting if we could do a wide-ranging poll of the entire Dragon Ball fandom and ask how they feel about Super.

And to those people, if you hate DBS, than just drop it, or at least hold off on this toxic negativity towards the fans. There are many people who look forward to the new episode each week. Anticipating it is how they get through the week. When you constantly berate that experience for the fans, it starts to become a drag even for them.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I also just don't understand the mentality of those kind of people. Despite hating the show an incredible amount, they still come back to watch it each week. Why keep on watching it? I stopped watching Naruto Shippuden and The Walking Dead after my enjoyment for those series, which I had once loved, had ceased when they had become weekly chores that bored & annoyed me with poor writing and copious filler. So why don't the DBS haters just drop the show and leave those of us who enjoy it in peace? Because they're trolls that get off on hate and bullying people. Like I said earlier, they've become such an outspoken crowd that it makes me feel like the majority of people who watch Super hate it. It'd be interesting if we could do a wide-ranging poll of the entire Dragon Ball fandom and ask how they feel about Super.

I wouldn't write them off as trolls. I stayed long after my enjoyment dried up because of the community. I enjoy talking to people about the show, and if I had quit, I'd have much less to talk about. Now, many of the people I had fun talking to have moved on, and once I realized that I wasn't having fun discussing and debating anymore, which was about 2 weeks ago, I've largely withdrawn. Granted, I'd like to think I spent my time a little better than fans on platforms like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc. tend to, but I guarantee the situation is similar. It's all about the community, the culture behind tearing new assholes into this stupid fucking show.

[FortuneSSJ]

I hate the fanbase way more than the show

I will go with this one too.